GUILTY IN - Shaylyn Ammerman, 14 mos, Spencer, 23 March 2016 #2

[Hippie Heart]

A year. They knew him a YEAR and people refer to him as a stranger. I don't know about you, but I would guess that half of my friends have moved in with, or married someone they had known only a year...

One of the brothers said LESS than a year and another poster found information online that shows he was either in jail or in some type of program for approximately half that time.

And as I've stated repeatedly above, even if you've "known" someone a year, you may have only had several 15 minute interactions with them.

It's ridiculous to say that because they supposedly knew him for a year or less than a year that means it's perfectly safe to go to sleep/take sleeping meds/get so drunk you can't see and pass out (take your pick) and leave him alone in a house drinking with a sleeping baby near the front door. It's just ridiculous.

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[courtneyb]

Did grandma know he watched *advertiser censored*? Don't LOTS of people watch *advertiser censored* in private? Would you quiz people about their *advertiser censored*-watching habits when you first met them? Would you expect them to tell you? How would YOU react if asked those things? Isn't that their personal business? Also, the baby did not live with the Dad and Grandma, so it is possible that Kyle was there often when she was NOT there. It would probably have seemed weird to say "I know you have come over here to hang out a dozen times before, but this time you can not come in because the baby is here..."

The point is, they did NOT know him well. And yet they all went to bed/stayed in bed with a defenseless baby in the living room and a man that they did not know well enough to trust, in their house.

I don't think it's crazy to say, "Sorry, Kyle, but everyone is going to bed, soooo... Time to go." That should be a given rule. There were certainly enough adults in the house who lived there who should have told him time to go. Them saying that "even though you've been here 12 times before and it's kind of creepy for you to be able to roam around the house with the baby in the living room while we are all asleep or passed out, we don't want to be rude, so just let yourself out when you're ready." Is INSANE! And it's exactly this that allowed him the chance to torture and kill that baby. Who cares if he's been there a dozen times or 3 dozen? They clearly say they don't know him well. I have clients that I've seen twice a month for the past 9 years, and we spend time talking each time I see them. I wouldn't let them be in my home around my children, especially if myself and my husband are asleep.

 

[LisaB]

Would you feel the same way if rather than Kyle, there was a dog that killed the baby who was put to sleep on the floor while all the adults were passed out drunk or from sleeping pills? Would it be the dog's fault or the people who put the child in such a situation?

There is no difference here.

You don't wait to know that a person is a potential threat to take precaution. Dad bears the responsibility for the safety of his child. He got drunk and passed out, leaving his baby girl unprotected and at the mercy of other drunken men - one her own uncle who was so drunk he couldn't SEE. This wasn't the uncle's first drinking rodeo, dad knew what kind of person he was and what kind of person Kyle was. It isn't rocket science. He was completely irresponsible and woefully negligent and his baby suffered from his stupidity.

Why are there mattresses on the outside of the house in the photo?

A dog would not be expected to have a rational thought process, to know they were doing a bad thing, or that it was illegal. A human is very different.

 

[LisaB]

Shaylynn being in the bedroom with an adult would have removed the risk 100%.

With the Smart and Van Dam cases, the children were not in bedrooms with adults. Smart was with a younger sister and Van Dam was alone. Klass was with other young children. The killers of these young girls were not invited guests in the homes and given free, unsupervised access while the adults slept in other bedrooms.

Like the 3 scenarios above show, we cannot remove 100% risk from our childrens' lives. They cannot have their parents as bodyguards all day long. However, I cannot compare Shaylynn to any of these cases. She was an infant left alone in an unlocked room with a drunk family acquaintance. While all the relatives slept in their rooms with their doors closed.

Most people put the baby in a room by itself, called a nursery. It is typical to keep the child in your room for the first few months, but she was over a year old.

 

[MsMarple]

I'm having a hard time believing grandma knew about the *advertiser censored*, even if friends knew. Why would KP or AA discuss *advertiser censored* watching with grandma for any reason? How would that even come up in conversation?

I know, right? And yet:

Adam Ammerman told investigators that his mother walked into the house one day and found Parker, who was intoxicated, sitting in a rocking chair and holding Shalyn in his lap. When Tammy Morgan asked Adam about Parker’s interests, he said “Kyle preferred to watch pornographic movies which featured people being spanked.”

http://fox59.com/2016/03/28/man-cha...in-death-of-spencer-toddler-shaylyn-ammerman/

My bolding.

I'm sorry, but that's just downright creepy to me. Mom asks her son about his friend's interests and he answers by telling her what type of *advertiser censored* he likes?

 

[LisaB]

It really bothers me that you have two grown men living with momma and step-dad, sharing a room, having friends over and drinking to all hours of the morning.



All of this MOO[/COLOR]

JA went to his own room to go to sleep. Kyle was with AA in AAs room watching movies. The "boys" did not share a room that I know of.

 

[Embley]

JA went to his own room to go to sleep. Kyle was with AA in AAs room watching movies. The "boys" did not share a room that I know of.

I will try to find the link, but up to now, I've read that there were only two bedrooms, and that JA and AA shared one and that TM and stepdad were in the other. Which adds to my confusion as to where JA was when AA and KP were in the bedroom.

Edit: going back, it looks like it is only a two bedroom but that they may have turned the back porch into a extra room for JA, who's bed supposedly blocks the back door of the house. My mistake.

 

[tlcya]

Your attention please:

Here is what we are going to do.

This thread is long and could use some cleanup. There is no new news and the debates about what is the definition of drunk, who was drunk, who watches what, who sleeps where, who should have been sleeping where, who would do what, who should have done what, and on and on, has become circular and frustrating.

At this point, everyone who has an opinion has had ample time to express it on all of the above.

The thread is going to close temporarily.

Everyone is going to have a chance to step away from this case and give their attention to another for a few hours.

A new thread is being readied. The rules for discussion going forward will be made crystal clear and they will be followed.

It will be opened withing a few hours. Until then everyone please take a breath, remind yourselves that it is perfectly acceptable, nay, even preferred, that you scroll and roll rather than nit and pick at one another.

Thanks,

tlcya

 

[beach]

Update:

We will be opening the new thread a little later this evening. I need to post some parameters outlining the rules for this case so everyone is clear. I apologize for the delay but I've had a personal family issue that needed my attention today. Check back again around 9:00p central time and it should be ready to go by then, if not sooner.

Thanks in advance for your patience and understanding. xo

 

[tlcya]

Please continue on Thread #3

Be sure to read the first two posts and THANK them. The rules are made very clear in post #2 and you will be expected to know and follow them.

Thank you

 

[beach]

Yes, what tlcya said.

Also, my apologies for not being able to re-open last night. I live in the deep south where the horrible storms are happening. Lost power about 8:00p last night and didn't get it back on until early this morning.