Inflatable bed kept in the trunk

[Themis]

If CA left for work before Caylee and KC usually got up and we discount GA seeing them at all on the 16th,why do you believe KC had to leave at all? Why couldn't she have stayed in her room until GA left? I'm just curious if there is a reason you have ruled that out.This is assuming KC killed Caylee sometime during the night. I trust your brainpower more than mine ,right now :crazy:
I think if KC left anytime during the night CA heard it.I would bet money that she was always aware of the comings and goings of her daughter at night.It's a small ,one story house and at the very least she would have heard the car.It's a mom thing.We sleep light.Just ask MY 21 yr old daughter
Just because CA would have heard KC doesn't mean she would have told LE about it.I'm not suggesting that's why I think KC didn't leave the house.She may have.But I also think it's possible she stayed put til the coast was clear .KWIM?

I'm thinking KC didn't "have to" leave the night of June 15th -- just after the fight. KC left because she was upset due to the fight. KC left with Caylee in tow and in full view of CA and GA.

I think it is unlikely KC killed Caylee in their room. There's too much comfort there. Why bother there. Caylee would just have gone to sleep and wouldn't have bothered KC. The risk of immediate discovery etc.
No. I'm working with the premise that the fight on June 15th was a "grow up or get out" fight and KC chose to get out. But, because of the custody threats, KC grabbed Caylee too. (She wouldn't let CA have her and once she left the A's home and was no longer a dependent, she would have qualified for TANF (welfare) funds - but ONLY if she had Caylee with her. The chemical chloroform mixture, the inflatable bed and duct tape were already in the car due to previous experiments using one or more them as "Nanny." It doesn't take much to assume KC burned her bridges and used up all of her favors regarding people who would babysit for her for nothing. She burned out the Grunds, her own parents and her friends.

CA's threatening to take custody of Caylee was a huge threat to KC because Caylee was her meal ticket if push came to shove and she had to leave the standard of living of the A's home. KC didn't qualify for TANF while she lived in the A's home, but would have once she left.

She didn't have to sneak out because the A's were fully aware that KC and Caylee left after the fight. ... Just sayin.'

 

[countzero]

I'm thinking KC didn't "have to" leave the night of June 15th -- just after the fight. KC left because she was upset due to the fight. KC left with Caylee in tow and in full view of CA and GA.

I think it is unlikely KC killed Caylee in their room. There's too much comfort there. Why bother there. Caylee would just have gone to sleep and wouldn't have bothered KC. The risk of immediate discovery etc.
No. I'm working with the premise that the fight on June 15th was a "grow up or get out" fight and KC chose to get out. But, because of the custody threats, KC grabbed Caylee too. (She wouldn't let CA have her and once she left the A's home and was no longer a dependent, she would have qualified for TANF (welfare) funds - but ONLY if she had Caylee with her. The chemical chloroform mixture, the inflatable bed and duct tape were already in the car due to previous experiments using one or more them as "Nanny." It doesn't take much to assume KC burned her bridges and used up all of her favors regarding people who would babysit for her for nothing. She burned out the Grunds, her own parents and her friends.

CA's threatening to take custody of Caylee was a huge threat to KC because Caylee was her meal ticket if push came to shove and she had to leave the standard of living of the A's home. KC didn't qualify for TANF while she lived in the A's home, but would have once she left.

She didn't have to sneak out because the A's were fully aware that KC and Caylee left after the fight. ... Just sayin.'

I hear what you are saying and yep, you could be right. The link I referenced does not get very specific. LE/FBI released the cell tower info and unfortunately I cannot understand much more than correlating KC's movements to the towers. That I understand but not much more. Which is why I was surprised LE/FBI released a generalization of KC's movements during the 6-14 thru 6-27 time period and where they placed her. Which cell tower is what I can't figure out.

 

[Themis]

I hear what you are saying and yep, you could be right. The link I referenced does not get very specific. LE/FBI released the cell tower info and unfortunately I cannot understand much more than correlating KC's movements to the towers. That I understand but not much more. Which is why I was surprised LE/FBI released a generalization of KC's movements during the 6-14 thru 6-27 time period and where they placed her. Which cell tower is what I can't figure out.

I agree. The timeline threads that WS has are more detailed.

 

[Jolynna]

Hi Miss James,

I'm not trying to make CA's memory of June 16th or GA's memory of June 16th fit because I don't believe either of them as to their recollections of that day -- at least the version they told the LEOs.

We know KC and Caylee were at the A's home until the time the fight between CA and KC that the neighbors heard after 7:30 p.m. to about 9:00 p.m. (estimated times) on June 15, 2009. Setting aside CA's "memory of hearing breathing" and GA's unbelievably detailed description of the clothing and Dora the Explorer backpack on June 16th, we have no proof that KC and Caylee remained in the A's home after the fight. The next we know for sure is KC was found at AL's on July 15th and Caylee's remains were found in December. The pings from the towers that serve the A's home, Lee's home and the Suburban drive area by the woods do not prove conclusively that KC was in the A's house that night at any time after the fight. There were some later computer uploads. Those combined with the pings from those towers at a later date are circumstantial evidence that KC was probably still accessing the house, but do nothing to prove or disprove that Caylee was there. The death bands on the hair kind of indicate that if Caylee was there on June 16th or later, she was no longer alive at the time.

We know KC was IN the Anthony house the morning of June 16 because of computer forensics.

KC started instant messaging with witeplayboi right after she picked up her phone messages and until just after 8 a.m. At 9 a.m. KC downloaded a picture using the Anthony computer.

Downloading a picture of Fusian to photobucket isn't worth sitting in an uncomfortable car until Cindy leaves, then sneaking into the house and daring the possibility of facing George over.

Tony didn't go to school on June 16. He was awaiting KC as soon as she didn't have Caylee.

There are links to the computer forensics for June 16 on the June 16 thread and the Cindy/KC June 15 Fight thread located at
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=233"]Anthony Case Resource Links, Case Calendar and Time Line Analysis Forum - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=233"]Anthony Case Resource Links, Case Calendar and Time Line Analysis Forum - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Nore]

Here you go:
http://www.wftv.com/video/18149829/index.html

I couldn't watch it, though; she drives me crazy and I already slogged through the FBI tapes (3 days before the transcripts were released):doh:. Let me know if there's anything interesting in there.

------------------------------
I just watched this video. One thing stood out,Ca's pupils seemed extremem]ly large to me. I may be wrong.No I'm not saying she is on drugs as there are many medical conditions and medications which will cause the same thing.Now about the airbed! I wonder if KC did what my mother did with me when I was wee and she wanted to party. My mother made me a bed in the closet and that was "home"for the night! Sort of like Paladin.:40__s:

 

[magic-cat]

------------------------------
I just watched this video. One thing stood out,Ca's pupils seemed extremem]ly large to me. I may be wrong.No I'm not saying she is on drugs as there are many medical conditions and medications which will cause the same thing.Now about the airbed! I wonder if KC did what my mother did with me when I was wee and she wanted to party. My mother made me a bed in the closet and that was "home"for the night! Sort of like Paladin.:40__s:

I think this very likely was the purpose of the airbed-a place to put Caylee while she frolicked with the boys and or the girls...

And Nore, at least your mama thought to make you comfy in the closet and I hope that you were not afraid while you were there... I have a daughter that would rather live inside a closet than in a room and that's no lie. She loves to get under beds, into closets, and she always has. And just for the record, not once did I ask her to go into any of those places, although I have frequently requested that she NOT! To a child, that would just seem like loads of fun, I would think...was that how it was for YOU?

 

[MissJames]

Hi Miss James,

I'm not trying to make CA's memory of June 16th or GA's memory of June 16th fit because I don't believe either of them as to their recollections of that day -- at least the version they told the LEOs.

We know KC and Caylee were at the A's home until the time the fight between CA and KC that the neighbors heard after 7:30 p.m. to about 9:00 p.m. (estimated times) on June 15, 2009. Setting aside CA's "memory of hearing breathing" and GA's unbelievably detailed description of the clothing and Dora the Explorer backpack on June 16th, we have no proof that KC and Caylee remained in the A's home after the fight. The next we know for sure is KC was found at AL's on July 15th and Caylee's remains were found in December. The pings from the towers that serve the A's home, Lee's home and the Suburban drive area by the woods do not prove conclusively that KC was in the A's house that night at any time after the fight. There were some later computer uploads. Those combined with the pings from those towers at a later date are circumstantial evidence that KC was probably still accessing the house, but do nothing to prove or disprove that Caylee was there. The death bands on the hair kind of indicate that if Caylee was there on June 16th or later, she was no longer alive at the time.

One of the reasons I felt it was in the house was because Caylee was wrapped in the blanket from her bed and because the heart sticker doesn't seem like something KC would carry in her car.She used the stickers when she was scrapbooking.
I don't think KC was afraid of getting caught.All she had to do was lock her door and tell them Caylee was sleeping.CA and GA seemed to back off when KC blew. JMO
I will be interested to hear the SA's theory.Maybe they even have evidence of where she died.

ETA: I don't have a concrete theory of where I think Caylee died.It changes with the new evidence as it comes out. I think if KC used the bed for Caylee at other peoples houses or parties,then LE has heard about it.

 

[Themis]

One of the reasons I felt it was in the house was because Caylee was wrapped in the blanket from her bed and because the heart sticker doesn't seem like something KC would carry in her car.She used the stickers when she was scrapbooking.
I don't think KC was afraid of getting caught.All she had to do was lock her door and tell them Caylee was sleeping.CA and GA seemed to back off when KC blew. JMO
I will be interested to hear the SA's theory.Maybe they even have evidence of where she died.

Those are good points. Obviously, I don't have any first-hand knowledge, so your opinion and anyone elses is just as valid as mine. Just for conversation, I'll mention some thoughts on your comments.

The blanket: If KC first tried to move Caylee from the trunk on Wednesday, there might have been some disgusting results due to decomp and the body's swelling and expulsion of fluids and waste matter. There had to be decomposition insects and eggs busily at work at that time because nature does that so survivors can live in a clean, natural environment. (Think of those insects as mother nature's biohazard removal team.) KC may have grabbed the blanket -- sort of like a wrap so she wouldn't have to touch the body and contaminants. It would also help for the body to be wrapped in a thicker blanket to move it into the laundry bag and then the 2 garbage bags. KC was at the house on the 18th and maybe this is what she did.

The heart sticker: That was the symbolic good bye. Like a substitute for a funeral. KC put the heart sticker on the duct tape just before disposing of the body. (Remember, KC didn't want the A family to have an official funeral -- maybe because she had already had that farewell ceremony in her own mind?) The scrapbooking made the sticker available in her house, but she could have grabbed it when she was in the house collecting the bags, blanket and other items (shovel from the neighbor) that she needed to move the body. She couldn't just put her hands on the body as it might -- come apart in her hands (sorry to be gross).

Afraid of getting caught: KC wasn't normally afraid of her parents and would control them by blowing up at them. But, this was big -- really really big and she couldn't guarantee that if they accidentally saw or suspected something they wouldn't do exactly what CA did when after CA and GA were exposed to the decomp smell they both went into action and third parties got involved -- third parties who were not controllable by KC. Even KC wouldn't take that risk. It appears CA did insert herself now and then when Caylee was concerned. After the big blow-up CA might very well have wanted to say goodbye to Caylee before she left for work so Caylee would know G'ma still loved her. CA was considering a custody challenge. KC could no longer guarantee that CA wouldn't do that -- shove past KC to see Caylee. No. IMHO, KC waited until CA left the house before she returned that morning and by that time, Caylee was dead many hours.

Oh, one more point. Upon death, the human body releases urine and fecal matter almost immediately. That fact could go both ways -- the Pooh blanket was stained and taken out when KC first had the chance to remove the body and the blanket from the room or it happened in the car. Either way, the blanket is used to handle the body and excrements and because it is soiled, it remains with the body permanently. But, washing and re-washing the sheets on the bed might be some proof that it did happen in the bedroom. Otherwise, if a replacement blanket is being washed repeatedly, that could mean cover-up attempt. CA told the LEOs early on that she washed the bedding weekly. But, who can trust everything or anything they say at this point.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

JMHO, Caylee died between the time the neighbors heard the fight on June 15th and the time CA went to work the morning of June 16th. KC's cell phone pings near the towers that serve the A's home, but we do not know if KC and Caylee were IN the home during that time -- they might have been camped out in the car on Suburbia. Also, if you take the time from the Wednesday, June 18, 2008 visit to the neighbor to borrow a shovel and go back 2.6 days for the band around the hair shaft, it corresponds with about midnight June 15th -- Sunday night just shortly after the fight -- the fight during which CA told KC she was going to fight KC for custody of Caylee and KC was going to have to get out.

KC searched chloroform, peroxide, death and other computer searches March 17, 2008. The incident where the boyfriend states KC and Caylee were with him in bed at night when he fell asleep, but Caylee was gone (KC still there) in the morning. KC explained that CA called and KC brought Caylee home, but CA says it never happened. Was KC using chloroform to keep Caylee in the car on the mattress?

I just had a "vision" :hand: what if KC came home on the 15th while Caylee was in the pool with CA. CA got out with Caylee to fight with KC. In the meantime, Caylee went back into the pool. Thus the saving of face ensued for CA and KC was set up to play out the script. Crazy I know but there has to be more to the story to explain how all of the A's act.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

CA went to work the next day while GA helped KC figure out what they were going to do. Eventually they had their own little ceremony which explains the personal belongings, the heart, etc. The duct tape remains a mystery and doesn't fit my vision. Unless it was an afterthought to minimize leakage while disposal was being arranged.

Why not just tell this to the world then? Study CA.

 

[Themis]

CA went to work the next day while GA helped KC figure out what they were going to do. Eventually they had their own little ceremony which explains the personal belongings, the heart, etc. The duct tape remains a mystery and doesn't fit my vision. Unless it was an afterthought to minimize leakage while disposal was being arranged.

Why not just tell this to the world then? Study CA.

The duct tape has to fit in the scenario because it was not placed there accidentally.

The forensics report states the duct tape was placed before decomposition began. If it was to stop leakage, leakage wouldn't start there and all body orifices would be taped under that rationale.

IMHO, the A family is dealing with the grief and the guilt. I say "guilt" because they knew she really didn't have any place to go, no income and no way to take care of Caylee or herself. They let her take the Pontiac because that enabled her to leave. They couldn't legally stop her from taking Caylee. She was the legal parent and they were not.

Offering a choice like that; take care of Caylee or get out and we will get custody; is no choice at all. It was a clear message to get out and they were taking Caylee. This was proof in the extreme that Caylee came first over KC. She was cornered by her own lies. Their amature intervention resulted in Caylee's losing her life. But in the A's rationale, they already lost a granddaughter and there was no point in losing KC too; like to the death penalty.

The bigger the threat, the more they will hang together and believe KC's storyline no matter how absurd. It's loyalty plus guilt that is driving them. They also have no income now due to the notarity of the case and have no choice but to work the humanitarian side and get donations. They were on the verge of bankruptcy before so they are economically backed into a corner. Poetic? Maybe.

 

[Themis]

I just had a "vision" :hand: what if KC came home on the 15th while Caylee was in the pool with CA. CA got out with Caylee to fight with KC. In the meantime, Caylee went back into the pool. Thus the saving of face ensued for CA and KC was set up to play out the script. Crazy I know but there has to be more to the story to explain how all of the A's act.

KC is too selfish to take a fall for them. However, IMHO, they did know more than they said much earlier on. The mystery is who knew what when.

 

[songline]

I believe it has been discussed on WS in different threads (don't know if it ever had a thread of it own) but I, at least, don't know for sure IF the bed was used, Where it was used and When it was used by Caylee.

I'd like to add that I have not read of any sheets, pillow or comforter that went along with this inflatable bed. I say this because we have a twin inflatable and stored away in the bag with it I have the air pump to inflate it, the sheets and a comforter that way if we need it when we go away on vacation or even at home it's all together. Perhaps it's an Aerobed or other inflatable bed that has it's own built in air pump.

From what I recall, Casey told her parents the inflatable bed was purchased for Caylee to sleep on when she slept over at Zanny's YET as of the date of the report CA states in writing the inflatible bed was at the A home for at least the past 2 months. Which tells me Casey did not have the inflatable bed when she and Caylee left the A home on June 16.

Perhaps someone else can shed more light on the matter of the inflatable bed

There is no Zany, there is no baby sitter...What was the inflatable bed really used for ? :doh:
I am getting sick of the thoughts.

 

[MissJames]

Those are good points. Obviously, I don't have any first-hand knowledge, so your opinion and anyone elses is just as valid as mine. Just for conversation, I'll mention some thoughts on your comments.

The blanket: If KC first tried to move Caylee from the trunk on Wednesday, there might have been some disgusting results due to decomp and the body's swelling and expulsion of fluids and waste matter. There had to be decomposition insects and eggs busily at work at that time because nature does that so survivors can live in a clean, natural environment. (Think of those insects as mother nature's biohazard removal team.) KC may have grabbed the blanket -- sort of like a wrap so she wouldn't have to touch the body and contaminants. It would also help for the body to be wrapped in a thicker blanket to move it into the laundry bag and then the 2 garbage bags. KC was at the house on the 18th and maybe this is what she did.

The heart sticker: That was the symbolic good bye. Like a substitute for a funeral. KC put the heart sticker on the duct tape just before disposing of the body. (Remember, KC didn't want the A family to have an official funeral -- maybe because she had already had that farewell ceremony in her own mind?) The scrapbooking made the sticker available in her house, but she could have grabbed it when she was in the house collecting the bags, blanket and other items (shovel from the neighbor) that she needed to move the body. She couldn't just put her hands on the body as it might -- come apart in her hands (sorry to be gross).

Afraid of getting caught: KC wasn't normally afraid of her parents and would control them by blowing up at them. But, this was big -- really really big and she couldn't guarantee that if they accidentally saw or suspected something they wouldn't do exactly what CA did when after CA and GA were exposed to the decomp smell they both went into action and third parties got involved -- third parties who were not controllable by KC. Even KC wouldn't take that risk. It appears CA did insert herself now and then when Caylee was concerned. After the big blow-up CA might very well have wanted to say goodbye to Caylee before she left for work so Caylee would know G'ma still loved her. CA was considering a custody challenge. KC could no longer guarantee that CA wouldn't do that -- shove past KC to see Caylee. No. IMHO, KC waited until CA left the house before she returned that morning and by that time, Caylee was dead many hours.

Oh, one more point. Upon death, the human body releases urine and fecal matter almost immediately. That fact could go both ways -- the Pooh blanket was stained and taken out when KC first had the chance to remove the body and the blanket from the room or it happened in the car. Either way, the blanket is used to handle the body and excrements and because it is soiled, it remains with the body permanently. But, washing and re-washing the sheets on the bed might be some proof that it did happen in the bedroom. Otherwise, if a replacement blanket is being washed repeatedly, that could mean cover-up attempt. CA told the LEOs early on that she washed the bedding weekly. But, who can trust everything or anything they say at this point.

I know most people do believe the heart sticker was a symbolic good bye,but I believe it was a source of tormenting Caylee.She probably liked the heart stickers .I invision KC saying"you want a sticker? I'll give you a sticker!".Maybe not literally,but more psychologicly .
I edited my last post to say I don't really have a definite theory of where Caylee died.It's ever-evolving as I see evidence and consider points other posters make.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

The bed is probably the floating type used in a pool. Caylee probably loved it and wanted to be on it with CA.

I'm sharing with you, but am not able to describe it, it was like a vision.

Going back to the simplist explanation theory. I think they all knew from day one and they are both (CA and KC) to blame. Then GA got involved and so did Lee (remember new pool filter ordered from the internet).

 

[Themis]

There is no Zany, there is no baby sitter...What was the inflatable bed really used for ? :doh:
I am getting sick of the thoughts.

Well, maybe for a place for Caylee to sleep while they are camped out at the "boyfriend of the day's" apartment.

 

[Themis]

The bed is probably the floating type used in a pool. Caylee probably loved it and wanted to be on it with CA.

I'm sharing with you, but am not able to describe it, it was like a vision.

Going back to the simplist explanation theory. I think they all knew from day one and they are both (CA and KC) to blame. Then GA got involved and so did Lee (remember new pool filter ordered from the internet).

I did not know about the new pool filter ordered from the internet. Going to have to mull that one over. Do you know when it was ordered?

 

[songline]

Here you go:
http://www.wftv.com/video/18149829/index.html

I couldn't watch it, though; she drives me crazy and I already slogged through the FBI tapes (3 days before the transcripts were released):doh:. Let me know if there's anything interesting in there.

Thanks I did watch it, and unless she is Lying she sounded OK on this one. She did mention the infatable bed, but I still wish I knew what it was used for. There is no Zane and so what was it really used for?

 

[Woe.be.gone]

I did not know about the new pool filter ordered from the internet. Going to have to mull that one over. Do you know when it was ordered?

I knew I would be asked for a link. And of course I don't have it handy but I will try my hardest to find it. We discussed the type of filter and everything. I'll go look.

 

[ExpectingUnicorns]

I knew I would be asked for a link. And of course I don't have it handy but I will try my hardest to find it. We discussed the type of filter and everything. I'll go look.

Is this it, Woe? [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2655056&postcount=90"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - It's time to drain the Anthony pool[/ame]