Interim discussion regarding questions from the jury and Arias on the stand #79

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Of course, and I don't entirely disagree either, well put. Most people don't murder, so it's hard to understand. I just honestly believe obsession and selfishness are of non-supernatural origin and when left unchecked can well, posses people. I mean sometimes we romanticize it with romances in media and novels but deep, deep romantic obsession is unhealthy (I'm not talking about love, but many people justify obsession in the name of love). Imagine if you acted upon your anger and never held back for example, held your feelings above all else and let them control you.

I believe wholeheartedly that Jodi has some sort of personality disorder, I also believe that her obsession with Travis became so great as she let it go unchecked that she became too single-minded, stuck in the eye of the hurricane, to perceive or concern herself with the consequences of her actions. The consequences to Travis, those who loved him, or even her own life.

Good points, MG, could be. I guess any really intense emotion, especially romantic love, can set off an unstable person.
Where it gets weird is, for example, her soullessness. The lack of humanity that people notice, the lack of any goodness. Can this all just be a personality disorder? This murder shows the same type of rage that Ted Bundy had. Once he said that 'something would come over him' during his rages and subsequent murder sprees. I wonder...
 
Why is he naked on his bed with her there? That's the one reason I can't buy there was no sex that day. I just don't care one way or the other.

I wonder if she wasn't holding him at gun/knifepoint, forcing him to "pose" for the camera or for her? Maybe camera was set on timer behind or next to her? He certainly doesn't look like he feels very sexy.
 
The only pic that seems lighter and in focus is the one that is square on his face. I'm not sure if she (JA) adjusted the settings for that or if LE enhanced the photo. All the other pics are out of focus, dark and quite carpy. JA is a lame azzed photographer at best. Point and shoot I can do as well and better than she did...Even though she was probably shooting the pics from the closet.

moo

BTW-She claims they were looking & deleting as they went...ANYBODY doing that would have changed the camera settings and/or flash after the first dark/blurry pic! NOT keep taking carpy photos.
 
His leg IS crossed over, which you can see clearly in this photo. I think it was to render him as helpless as possible when she plunged the knife into his chest.

I disagree that he was taking a shower willingly. Every single frame looks under duress to me. YMMV.

It does to me too...

I don't know how she could have put a knife in his chest with him in that position sitting in the shower. He had to be on the floor or standing straight on.

Did the ME elaborate on the direction of the wounds? Was the type of knife mentioned? I would think she would carry a stilleto, easy to conceal. Is there any indication it was a kitchen knife?
 
Is the pic of him sitting in the shower a part of the head shot we see with the water drops? If so, I wish they would put this together. Where are his arms?
 
I would not at all be surprised if she was doing things like texting, emailing etc...using his phone. Why not? She keeps saying that they exchanged each other's passwords but really, how many people do you know that do that? Not so many. Maybe a husband and wife who are close and don't care but not two people who supposedly don't trust each other? That makes no sense at all. She hacked into everything he had. The only one I'm not convinced of yet is his bank account but it really would not surprise me in the least if she did that too.

I've mentioned my own personal experience regarding a sociopath here but I haven't felt all that comfortable going into detail. I would like to share a tidbit though to give an idea as to what these sub-humans can do. I was married to mine. For almost 10 months he pretended to go off to work each day. Sometimes early. Sometimes late and "rushing" out. Sometimes came home for lunch and sometimes calling that he couldn't because he had a meeting. He DIDN'T HAVE A JOB! He had been fired for stealing money! For 10 months! Do you know how he got away with it? He deposited (stolen) money every month...

There is no end to what they can do. They have no feelings. No shame. And with regards to motive...no jealousy. JA was not jealous. She felt either slighted or she felt he would expose her for what she was. Nothing else. This was not a crime of passion and was not about jealousy. Sociopaths rely on not being detected as such for their "livelihood" and TA threatened that in some way. She had found a field of dreams within the Mormon community and would have probably moved right along to the next one if he hadn't threatened to expose her.

moo

awesome post, Pink Panther. I am so sorry you went through hell w/a socio. My prayer to you and yours, you're a survivor, don't forget!
Thank you for sharing also, what a horrible person 'it' was. I think it is great to read this kind of stories about socios because maybe, armed with info, we can identify and avoid them sooner.
I like your line, 'field of dreams in the Mormon...'. So true, she thought she hit paydirt. A woman with the sexual knowledge of a *advertiser censored* actress circling the pure Mormon boys, yikes...
 
Sorry, I left to pick up kids at school. I don't know if I will address your thoughts exactly, but I will try to share what I think. Psychopaths are very unique, no matter what the original cause. They do not feel empathy. They do not feel conscience. That is really hard for a normal person to wrap their brain around. I have literally seen a child watch another family member get terribly hurt and then start laughing and dancing as if excited. I literally had to tell this child that was not appropriate. The child was doing it because she wanted attention and knew that since the other child was hurt, the attention was going the other way. She felt she had to compete so she tried to be very cute and start dancing to get the attention back. It was not planned or prepared. It just was. From a young age, she had been taught that everything HAD to be about her or she was in danger.

When normal people see that type of thing, it enrages them. It provokes hate. They literally cannot imagine what would cause someone to "dance on the grave" of another person. We cannot project rational thinking on to someone who is not rational, but we do it anyway. We image the hate and rage they must feel to the person. The fact is - unless it currently impacts them - they are probably not thinking about it at all. (Ex: Ryan Burns just hours after killing TA. Even if it had been self defense, we would expect it to rock her world and it was not even on her radar.)

The reactions you are hearing on the board are what healthy people feel when faced with someone who is capable of committing such an extreme heinous act without any remorse or conscience. It was horrible to murder TA, but to do it and THEN have no remorse or conscience about calling him a pedophile, etc. is just incomprehensible to a normal person. I would even say it was healthy for people to be outraged.

It is also compounded because healthy people can feel and see the pain of TA's family. We can feel every emotion, cry with every tear. We literally carry some of that pain in us after seeing them. JA does not. Not judging. Just stating fact. She is absolutely oblivious to their pain - unless it benefits her. If it shows her she is winning, she can literally feed off of it and get joy from it. Again, I hope that as I write this that you don't hear judgement. I have seen this again and again.

The darkness people talk about in her eyes is real. For whatever reason, it is as if these people have dead souls. They are walking shells. No empathy. No conscience. No trust. Constant lying.

That's why you see the strong reactions. Kids I work with come that way. It is horrific to see what they can do - killing animals, hurting siblings, etc. without any remorse and, sometimes, with incredible joy. When you witness it, it is easy to feel extreme anger for the victims. Especially that, once they are caught, they continue to lie and justify.

Again, I keep wanting to point - no judgement. It is horrific. I tell you that we are all suffering worse than JA right now. We have more capacity to feel pain. Her hardest moment of the trial has been the brief moments where the jury does not believe her act. That takes the fun out - that means losing. The only fears she has are abandonment and not being special. TA hit the first. The jury just mortified her with the second.

I don't mean to ramble. If JA was murdered, we would have never seen this side of her.

The challenge in dealing with this every day - and many of my families do - is that anger, extreme anger, when you live with the constant lies, violence, and manipulation only feeds the disorder. In addition, the person to whom the anger is targeted, in this case, JA, is thrilled with the attention - positive or negative. So, if you hold on to the anger, you are making her feel better and making yourself feel consumed.

Not speaking about trial watchers, but people who live with it constantly. It is nerve wracking, no matter how much sympathy you have for how a person got there. It can be maddening to watch this type of individual in action. But, trust me, JA is flattered by any attention anyone gives her. Nothing on this board would offend her. She would be so pleased we all devoted so much of our lives to her -honestly.

When I worked in the prisons, obviously I had to interacted with some inmates who were psychopaths. It is very hard to warp one's head around how they think and view the world totally devaluing life and viewing others as objects. It is very obvious in their conversation. It takes a large amount of emotional detachment and realization of who they are to stay away from their attempts to get into your head and accept who they are.

Not everyone in prison are psychopaths.
 
His legs are actually not crossed. The illusion is due to the right side of the photo blocking where his right knee is supposed to be.
 
I would not at all be surprised if she was doing things like texting, emailing etc...using his phone. Why not? She keeps saying that they exchanged each other's passwords but really, how many people do you know that do that? Not so many. Maybe a husband and wife who are close and don't care but not two people who supposedly don't trust each other? That makes no sense at all. She hacked into everything he had. The only one I'm not convinced of yet is his bank account but it really would not surprise me in the least if she did that too.

I've mentioned my own personal experience regarding a sociopath here but I haven't felt all that comfortable going into detail. I would like to share a tidbit though to give an idea as to what these sub-humans can do. I was married to mine. For almost 10 months he pretended to go off to work each day. Sometimes early. Sometimes late and "rushing" out. Sometimes came home for lunch and sometimes calling that he couldn't because he had a meeting. He DIDN'T HAVE A JOB! He had been fired for stealing money! For 10 months! Do you know how he got away with it? He deposited (stolen) money every month...

There is no end to what they can do. They have no feelings. No shame. And with regards to motive...no jealousy. JA was not jealous. She felt either slighted or she felt he would expose her for what she was. Nothing else. This was not a crime of passion and was not about jealousy. Sociopaths rely on not being detected as such for their "livelihood" and TA threatened that in some way. She had found a field of dreams within the Mormon community and would have probably moved right along to the next one if he hadn't threatened to expose her.

moo

Pink Panther,
was rereading your post. Great, btw.
Question, do you think, after your experience with that person, that 'it' had a personality disorder (to say the least!)? Did 'it' have soulless eyes too?
thanks for all the grt info.
 
awesome post, Pink Panther. I am so sorry you went through hell w/a socio. My prayer to you and yours, you're a survivor, don't forget!
Thank you for sharing also, what a horrible person 'it' was. I think it is great to read this kind of stories about socios because maybe, armed with info, we can identify and avoid them sooner.I like your line, 'field of dreams in the Mormon...'. So true, she thought she hit paydirt. A woman with the sexual knowledge of a *advertiser censored* actress circling the pure Mormon boys, yikes...

Unfortunately, most will never know. Staff in Mental Health can get fooled too, as these psychopaths are not seen in a psychiatric setting, nothing is ever wrong with them...so psych staff get fooled in the personal lives as often as other people do.

The best advice I can say is if you get a feeling that something is not right with the person but you can't put your finger on it...then beware because you may be talking with a sociopath..
 
It does to me too...

I don't know how she could have put a knife in his chest with him in that position sitting in the shower. He had to be on the floor or standing straight on.

Did the ME elaborate on the direction of the wounds? Was the type of knife mentioned? I would think she would carry a stilleto, easy to conceal. Is there any indication it was a kitchen knife?

I'm not a knife expert so I'll leave that for someone else to opine, but just based on how many of the 29 stab wounds were 1" or 1 1/2" or 1 3/4" or 2" wide, and the smallest stab mentioned was 3/4" I would say it was a much more deadly knife than a kitchen knife and probably larger than a stiletto.

The Medical Examiner's testimony is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4h0fje33320

When JA was planned to flee, they found a gun and knives, plural, hidden in her luggage.
 
Unfortunately, most will never know. Staff in Mental Health can get fooled too, as these psychopaths are not seen in a psychiatric setting, nothing is ever wrong with them...so psych staff get fooled in the personal lives as often as other people do.

The best advice I can say is if you get a feeling that something is not right with the person but you can't put your finger on it...then beware because you may be talking with a sociopath..

Ohh yes!!! You can say that again..
 
She had to do something really bad to him. He is threatening to expose her to all the people that she held in high regard (Freemans, Hughes, Her parents, leslie) we know how much her "reputation" matters to her. He's asking her for someone's info because he knows she's lying about something. One thing that stands out the most is him calling her a liar and evil. He had her pegged at this point. We've all seen how far she will take it to "protect" her image/reputation. Travis was not playing games with her, I feel like she needed to SILENCE him so her "secret" wouldn't get out. He was turning the tables on her and not letting her get away with it. he's drawing the line. He references the "crazy" things she's done including lying about a email that some mysterious man wrote for her (maybe he meant to her) but this is some kind of fabrication she came up with before the incident he's addressing in this text. He tells her the truth no matter how bad isn't as bad as her lies to him. He was giving her a day to come clean or he was going to air her out.

Travis is desperately trying to get her to tell the truth (IN VAIN) He calls her out on being self serving and lacking human emotion (Exactly whats been said about her everywhere) and is trying to appeal to the human side of her. He's implying that she uses everyone for her own sick agenda. Travis tells her she looks like a *advertiser censored* from the comments she made on facebook (I don't believe her when she said it was related to the weatherman movie, she said/did something else) maybe she flirted with or had sex with his friend (we know her pattern of turning to the friend of an ex) He feels betrayed and hurt by her. At this point he feels like she's ignoring his messages to her.

In the end Travis summed it up by calling her evil and the worst thing that ever happened to him. He was going to let the cat out the bag about who/what she really was to the people she held in high esteem (i still think Dan Freeman was her next target, he seems smitten with her) She couldn't afford to have her mask ripped off. This is the FIRST TIME she saw that Travis was angry with her. No sex or lies was going to fix this. whatever she did was big and it was over. I think this is when she decided to kill him, her reputation means more to her than anything in this world. She knew he was serious this time and for that reason he needed to be silenced.

Great observations—you summed it up perfectly.
 
Quick question. Is Dan Freeman and the other Freeman girl on Travis' side or Jodi's?
 
I wonder if she wasn't holding him at gun/knifepoint, forcing him to "pose" for the camera or for her? Maybe camera was set on timer behind or next to her? He certainly doesn't look like he feels very sexy.

This is how i have since the beginning. The look on his face was not the ralph Lauren sexy shower type pose that JA has stated. Nope he looks fearful to me.
 
Is the pic of him sitting in the shower a part of the head shot we see with the water drops? If so, I wish they would put this together. Where are his arms?

Thanks to the poster who put this together (sorry, forgot who, but it's a valuable illustration). His arms are raised shoulder height if I recall correctly.
 

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His leg IS crossed over, which you can see clearly in this photo. I think it was to render him as helpless as possible when she plunged the knife into his chest.

I disagree that he was taking a shower willingly. Every single frame looks under duress to me. YMMV.

They aren't crossed, His right calf was pressed back against his thigh.
 
Look at this picture. It was taken immediately after the full face pic of TA. He's still sitting with his arms on his knees. Notice something? The shower door is open. His arm is not opening the shower door. TA had NO IDEA that she was THAT bat chit crazy.

moo

ETA - Forgot to link the pic - Here it is:

http://s1352.beta.photobucket.com/user/tabularasa6/media/ja47_zpsda0f592d.jpg.html?sort=3&o=212

Yes. She probably told him at gun/knife point to turn off the water and sit down.

She really wanted to capture his face full of fear and for that she must die. She is pure EVIL.
 
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