Is Casey A Skillful Liar?

[Oakley]

I think Casey is a prolific liar, but not a skillful one.

 

[Donjeta]

Well I dunno... I think she contradicts herself easily because she overdoes it with all the detail and can't keep it all straight in her head. She offers so much detail without prompting it sounds phony. Like she didn't have to think for a moment about how tall Zanny was, and no one asked her about Zanny's extended family but she kept on talking so no one could ask any questions. Then she gave the impression that Juliette was a current coworker and in the next moment said she had moved out of state two months ago. She had just talked to all these people but didn't have their number or any way to contact them.

She didn't think ahead at all, and her lies were so easily disproven. It's not a sign of a good liar imo.

I think the reason some people wanted to believe her is that it really makes no sense for a normal person to lie about all this stuff, and they want things to make sense.

 

[Kelroy]

I guess that ability to fluently adapt the lie is what seems like a skill to many of us. If I lied to someone about being in Starbucks, and that person said "But I was just in Starbucks, and you weren't there," my response would be "oh, uh, all right, I'm actually still at home in my pjs but didn't want to admit it." I'm intelligent, but I wouldn't be able to quickly think up all these new explanations and stories, and I certainly would never be able to keep track of all the imaginary relationships Casey invented.

And to those of us who are not good at thinking these things up, the details in Casey's lies make them seem more believable. If I was Cindy, and hearing this long, involved story about Zanny's accident and medical care, I'd be inclined to believe it because I couldn't have made something like that up out of thin air!!

I realize having followed this case now for a long time that I should view these over-abundant details with more suspicion, but that certainly wouldn't have been the case for me in the past. See, you can learn a lot in Websleuths.

Tink

Exactly! I guess I am gullible, since others say they wouldn't believe her lies, but I know I would have. I'm a terrible liar, so anyone going into that level of detail tends to strike me as believable.

Casey was a pathological liar, but not an intelligent person at all, IMHO. She was only effective at lying to those that didn't challenge her lies or knew that she was lying but never directly CONFRONTED her about her lies. This would apply to her family, her ever changing friends and random co-workers. She used Caylee as a pawn with her parents, so they didn't put her a&$ in check when they should have because they were afraid she would take Caylee and leave their household.

But the minute that she came up against those light years smarter than she was, (LE) it was as apparent as the sun in the sky that she was just a liar. A pitiful, defiant, narcissitic, dumb and scheming liar. There was nothing special about her as a liar. Just a run of the mill, now murdering liar. Plain and simple.

I know I'm in the minority, but watching those jail tapes and phone conversations has never made me think Casey is dumb. She's quite articulate (though I know some people have made fun of her pronunciation) and imaginative, and I really think she's of above-average intelligence (though certainly not a genius). It's my own opinion, but I think labeling her unintelligent can be a kind of--I don't know, something like a red herring? Her big lies were easily disproved by LE when they were actively investigating her because her child's life was thought to be on the line, but I don't think that means Casey is dumb or that the people who believed her were dumb. I think Casey is truly a terrible person--definitely narcissistic, deviant, etc.--but that doesn't mean she's stupid. JMO.

(I'll be honest and admit I'm comparing her to my niece, a big liar who's a few years younger than Casey; now that girl is dumb. Casey looks like a genius compared to my niece, I'm sad to say.)

 

[Tuffy]

I don't think she is a skillful liar. Prolific, but not especially skillful.

 

[SaltyTexan]

Nine years with my ex (pathological liar/sociopath) convinces me that ICA is a typicalliar.

The MO seems to be be to lie to loved ones, people who are supposed to believe you. Indignation if those loved ones dare to question. "How dare you call me a liar, I am your (fill in the blanks, husband, mother, best friend, etc.)! When caught redhanded, "That's not what I said, you misunderstood me" When all else fails, go into the victim mode. "My kid was hungry, my mother needed an operation, my kid was kidnapped" or "It's your fault, if you weren't such a b_____ I wouldn't have to lie."

I once thought that my ex was a psychopath, but when I looked up the difference, the basic definition seems to be the level of skill as a determining factor between a sociopath and a psychopath. For instance, the sociopath will have a hard time getting or holding a job, but the psychopath will be the boss. So, no Casey is not a skilled liar, if she was she would have had a better plan.:twocents:

 

[MissDiva]

I don't think she's a skilled liar. She may be with her parents and friends, but not with anyone who has enough wisdom to see through her BS and isn't biased by being close to her.

 

[faefrost]

It isn't that she is a skillful liar. She is actually a fairly bad liar in many ways. It is more the outright brazenness of her lying that makes her effective. That perpetual question with her of "why would anyone lie about this?" It isn't that her lies are particularly believable or told with any real skill. It is that they are most often layered based upon stuff that there is just no reason fro anyone to lie about, so the listener will not flag on it.

 

[Pollywog]

She is not a smart liar. She has been able to lie for years and get away with it only because her parents never called her on the lies even if they did not believe them, they just let her continue. She lies because she can and she really thnks she has done nothing wrong.

 

[SATA]

I remember the first I read about this case. I don´t live in the USA, so it was a while after Caylee was found.
I read an account of Casey´s dragging the police to Universal Studios and all the BS she said to them.
I could see very quickly that she was lying! Not a good liar in my opinion! And stupid too.
If she were that good, she wouldn't be on trial for her life. Of course I don´t know what happened to Caylee, but if we assume that Casey killed her intentionally, she could easily have, say, drowned her and make it look like an accident.
Also it is very unsophisticated to drive around with Caylee´s body in the trunk (in my view that has been established by the prosecution witnesses) - and then just dump the stinking car in plain view!
Casey is like a child. She doesn't understand that there are consequences of her actions. She doesn't understand that people don´t believe her outrageous and improbable lies! I remember the police interviews. The officer tells her that they KNOW that she is lying, it is so OBVIOUS, but she sheepishly just goes on with them.
Yesterday she laughed when the DA asked the Dr. why he hadn´t wrapped the pig in a blanket. That shows me that she is very, very immature. She just doesn't connect the dots and can´t see how inappropriate that IS, her having wrapped her dead child in a blanket!
I think there is something wrong with Casey´s brain. I don´t think she is capable of seeing the world as a whole, she sees it in isolated instances.
I am glad I am not inside that head of hers!

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

The only "skill" that I see in Casey's lies is that so many folks seem to believe her. Cindy was obviously aware that Casey had a tendency to lie because she admitted that there is/was "always some truth in Casey's lies". George probably had reason to not believe his daughter at least some of the time, but I don't recall him saying anything specific about the lying. Lee has said that he "believes everything his sister tells him". Really hard to know exactly how much of Casey's fantasy world her family accepted as truth. jmo

 

[1tasha]

She lies about things that are so easily checkable that you wouldn't think anyone would try lying about. I'll never get over people who do this.

 

[1tasha]

My opinion is that, while the talking heads are calling her lies "skillful," what they are usually alluding to is her commitment to the lies that is astounding. To literally be at the end of the hallway at Universal before admitting that she doesn't work there shows a level of commitment that even the most practiced liars would probably admire.

I think you're exactly right. She's completely audacious. And she doesn't seem really upset by being caught. Staggering.

 

[Sleuth5]

It is a matter of record that she is a terrible liar. Her lies all follow a similar pattern in that they are usually quite easy to disprove with a very small amount of effort. She has always counted on the laziness of others to sustain her fantasy life. This is, of course, a function of her tendency to project her own traits onto others, presuming that everyone is as predatory and lazy as she herself is. She has always pulled them off in the past by changing groups and continually recontextualizing her life.

Of course, it didn't work this time because the police became involved. She threw her usual very poorly thought out lies to them, and contrary to her prior experience, they methodically checked and rechecked every fact she offered. The result was her inevitable arrest and the Greek tragedy now unfolding involving her entire family and an as yet to be determined number of innocent bystanders.

She is dangerous and belongs in prison.

:cow:

 

[Marple]

I would say she's an average pathological liar. She's nothing special, even though she'd like you to think she is!

 

[sappysoul]

She makes mistakes in the consistency of her stories, but she is very good at changing courses on a dime.
Things like (this is not a real quote)
"I'm at Starbucks with Jane."
"But I was just there and didn't see you."
"I didn't mean we're in Starbucks. We're next door picking some clothes out for Jane's sister Susan. Then we're headed to Starbucks."
"The clothing store next to Starbucks closed last month."
"Oh, I know. We're just sitting in my car looking at a catalog Jane brought. My coworkers Jill and Betty just walked by and waved."
"I didn't see your car in the parking lot."
"That's because I'm driving a company car. It's a Honda."

She contradicts herself all the time, but comes up with something really quickly that makes it very hard to keep track of exactly what she had said before. I bet she hates to see any of her statements written out on paper.

And she would be able to do that without any significant change in her voice or manner. In all fairness to her family and friends, most of us aren't going to continue to push the issue on and on. LE OTOH was looking for a missing child and wasn't going to stop until they found that child. Her stupidity is thinking they would believe her without any proof. In our day-to-day interactions with people we usually don't expect them to prove they were at Starbucks even if we are suspicious of their story.

 

[fifteen89]

She makes mistakes in the consistency of her stories, but she is very good at changing courses on a dime.
Things like (this is not a real quote)
"I'm at Starbucks with Jane."
"But I was just there and didn't see you."
"I didn't mean we're in Starbucks. We're next door picking some clothes out for Jane's sister Susan. Then we're headed to Starbucks."
"The clothing store next to Starbucks closed last month."
"Oh, I know. We're just sitting in my car looking at a catalog Jane brought. My coworkers Jill and Betty just walked by and waved."
"I didn't see your car in the parking lot."
"That's because I'm driving a company car. It's a Honda."

She contradicts herself all the time, but comes up with something really quickly that makes it very hard to keep track of exactly what she had said before. I bet she hates to see any of her statements written out on paper.

Hi Casey! :greetings:

[Pretty tricky that you joined in May 2007 to fool us.]

 

[coloradoteacher]

It is a matter of record that she is a terrible liar. Her lies all follow a similar pattern in that they are usually quite easy to disprove with a very small amount of effort. She has always counted on the laziness of others to sustain her fantasy life. This is, of course, a function of her tendency to project her own traits onto others, presuming that everyone is as predatory and lazy as she herself is. She has always pulled them off in the past by changing groups and continually recontextualizing her life.

Of course, it didn't work this time because the police became involved. She threw her usual very poorly thought out lies to them, and contrary to her prior experience, they methodically checked and rechecked every fact she offered. The result was her inevitable arrest and the Greek tragedy now unfolding involving her entire family and an as yet to be determined number of innocent bystanders.

She is dangerous and belongs in prison.

:cow:

BBM- and the DT OS theory has all of her hallmarks in it- the SA will disprove the RK, GA/LA abuse ANd GA's involvement and it will all fall apart. It's almost like she thinks people will go along with her because of her narcissism. She does think she is smarter than everyone else, thus these lies make her look unintelligent because she of these expectations. It has many hallmarks of sociopathy.

 

[Emeralgem]

I remember the first I read about this case. I don´t live in the USA, so it was a while after Caylee was found.
I read an account of Casey´s dragging the police to Universal Studios and all the BS she said to them.
I could see very quickly that she was lying! Not a good liar in my opinion! And stupid too.
If she were that good, she wouldn't be on trial for her life. Of course I don´t know what happened to Caylee, but if we assume that Casey killed her intentionally, she could easily have, say, drowned her and make it look like an accident.
Also it is very unsophisticated to drive around with Caylee´s body in the trunk (in my view that has been established by the prosecution witnesses) - and then just dump the stinking car in plain view!
Casey is like a child. She doesn't understand that there are consequences of her actions. She doesn't understand that people don´t believe her outrageous and improbable lies! I remember the police interviews. The officer tells her that they KNOW that she is lying, it is so OBVIOUS, but she sheepishly just goes on with them.
Yesterday she laughed when the DA asked the Dr. why he hadn´t wrapped the pig in a blanket. That shows me that she is very, very immature. She just doesn't connect the dots and can´t see how inappropriate that IS, her having wrapped her dead child in a blanket!
I think there is something wrong with Casey´s brain. I don´t think she is capable of seeing the world as a whole, she sees it in isolated instances.
I am glad I am not inside that head of hers!

BBM..I didn't see that display and I thank God, however IMHO there is something far more sinsister and demented going on inside her head than her just being immature...Damien comes to mind...JMHO

 

[aeneas1]

I think you're exactly right. She's completely audacious. And she doesn't seem really upset by being caught. Staggering.

i'm not sure she was particularly audacious because no one ever seemed to call her bluff - hard to be audacious when there is no risk involved. in fact i'm convinced that she didn't believe le would call her bluff either, not at every turn, which is why she went ahead and led them to sawgrass and universal - she thought at some point le would do a u-turn, thinking that there was no way she would get in the car with them and lead them to these locations if what she said wasn't true. she sorely underestimated le.

 

[LCoastMom]

No she is not. CA "believed" ICA's lies because it was easier than arguing with her.

My oldest DD was diagnosed with BorderLine Personality at age 22 - following the most difficult year of our lives. I recognized CA in July 2008 as a victim of ICA. Living with these disorders is traumatic. But CA made a huge mistake by not standing up to ICA. There was no way, no how I would put up with that behavior. CA was "feeding it" making it worse, making the acting out more frequent and more outrageous, making the lies bigger. CA could have reclaimed her home by making hard, fast rules that ICA could have followed or hit the bricks. It's difficult, you can never back down but in the end the peace in the home makes it worth the work. CA didn't do this, the family lost and Caylee paid the ultimate price.