Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #12

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Excerpt from the Israeli Defense Forces Briefing on the now former hostages: “They all underwent a preliminary medical examination at Kerem Shalom border crossing and there face no life-threatening medical emergencies. They are now being driven and they will arrive at Hatzerim Airbase shortly, where they will be in touch with their families, will complete medical examinations, and from there will be taken by IAF helicopters to hospitals to be reunited with their families. Likewise, the foreign nationals will meet representatives of their home countries at Hatzerim Airbase and from there will be taken to hospitals.We must not forget that each of those who returned home tonight still has family members or relatives who were murdered, or who are still being held hostage in Gaza.”
https://twitter.com/x/status/1728149471773798840
 
You can all quote the news and history you want about Israeli occupiers, settlers... I get it.
Yet, I believe most of us already KNOW at the heart of the attack on Israel on Oct 7 2023 IS Islamic fundamentalism. Freedom for Palestinians is a cover and lame one at that. Hamas has done nothing for Palestinians except bring death and destruction.

jmo
 
Friday Fan said:
Lots of work needs to be done. War will resume. It's only a pause. Goal is to remove all tunnels, Hamas centers, remove weapons, eliminate Hamas militants. (I don't think they can eliminate Hamas itself, but they can eliminate militants)

Even when it's over, what about all the ruins? And insurgence in the ruins. And prevention of new tunnels and prevention of import of weapons etc. And what about a new govt in Gaza???? It's gonna take a long time..
Click to expand...
With respect - Hamas are the militants.

The Palestinian people need to be in control of their own destiny which allows them to map it out for themselves.

The Gaza strip has been bombed back into the dark ages making it of necessity a bigger dependency than it was. The tunnels used to be smugglers' tunnels bringing in goods we would expect to access freely but they were not allowed to. It is no way to live. They need control of their own ports and infrastructure ... is there room on the strip for an airport.
There are many issues to be sorted and now is beyond time for doing so. We've had a wake up call!
My opinion
 
fred&edna said:
You can all quote the news and history you want about Israeli occupiers, settlers... I get it.
Yet, I believe most of us already KNOW at the heart of the attack on Israel on Oct 7 2023 IS Islamic fundamentalism. Freedom for Palestinians is a cover and lame one at that. Hamas has done nothing for Palestinians except bring death and destruction.

jmo
Click to expand...
I could not disagree with you more.
 
fred&edna said:
You can all quote the news and history you want about Israeli occupiers, settlers... I get it.
Yet, I believe most of us already KNOW at the heart of the attack on Israel on Oct 7 2023 IS Islamic fundamentalism. Freedom for Palestinians is a cover and lame one at that. Hamas has done nothing for Palestinians except bring death and destruction.

jmo
Click to expand...
Occupation? Settlements? Hamas leaders don’t want two state solution. They want a one state solution. Unless someone doesn’t believe them. Here are their own words.

Hamas official vows to repeat Israel attacks ‘again and again’ until it’s destroyed​


“The al-Aqsa Flood is just the first time and there will be a second, a third, a fourth because we have the determination, the resolve and the capabilities to fight,” Hamad said in an Oct. 24 Lebanese television interview republished by British outlets Wednesday.

Hamad said the terrorist organization is willing to “pay a price.”

“We are called a nation of martyrs and are proud to sacrifice martyrs,” Hamad said. “Israel is a country that has no place on our land. We must remove that country because it constitutes a security, military and political catastrophe to the Arab and Islamic nations, and must be finished.”

nypost.com

Hamas official vows to repeat Israel attacks ‘again and again’ until it’s destroyed

The brutal statement underscored the prospect of continued violence and misery in the region as Hamas and Israel both vowed to eradicate each the other and denied their right to exist.
nypost.com nypost.com
 
"Nov 24, 2023 #IsraelHamasWar #Gaza #Hostages
Mark Regev, a senior adviser to Benjamin Netanyahu, has told Sky News the release of 24 hostages by Hamas 'cannot be compared' to the 39 prisoners freed by Israel.Mr Regev claimed the hostages being held in Gaza included a two-year-old and four-year-old - whereas many of the Palestinians were teenagers who were "involved in violence".He added that Hamas were forced into the deal due to "under amazing pressure" from Israeli military strikes''
 
fred&edna said:
Why is America responsible for doing all the flipping work to repair all the hell that Islamic extremist terrorism inflicts on everyone in the middle east and beyond?? Why are these Islamic extremist leaders protected?? Why does no other territory, state, region want to accept Palestinians?? Why does this hell continue on and on and on perpetrated by Islamic extremists??

Are you sharing you opinion as an American citizen or ??
Click to expand...
Because that is what the US does.

(not even gonna touch on Palestinians because they have only been peripheral. Our interests have been the Soviets and oil. )


That's what happens when you're the most powerful nation in the world.

I could go on and on, but here is a handful.

It's due to our "Nation Building" policy.

We have all the firepower, atomic bombs and the largest defense in the world.
That's what we do....

It started with Cold War.

It also has to do with our oil demands in the ME.


In 1953, Iran had an election and they were afraid it would become communist, so their leader was once again replaced with the monarch. We maintained very strong tries with Iran, but the people of Iran were mistreated by the Shah and saw him as an American puppet.

1. 1953 Iranian coup d'état - Wikipedia
The 1953 Iranian coup d'état, was the U.S.- and British-instigated, Iranian army-led overthrow of the democratically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in favor of strengthening the monarchical rule of the shah, Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, on 19 August 1953.It was aided by the United States (under the name TP-AJAX (Tudeh Party) Project[6] or Operation Ajax) and the United Kingdom (under the name Operation Boot)The Shi'a clergy also played a considerable role.


We were in Afghanistan from 1979-1992 - supporting radical Islamic militants to fight the Soviet Union

2. Operation Cyclone - Wikipedia
Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) program to arm and finance the Afghan mujahideen in Afghanistan from 1979 to 1992, prior to and during the military intervention by the USSR in support of the Democratic Republic of Afghanistan. The mujahideen were also supported by Britain's MI6, who conducted their own separate covert actions. The program leaned heavily towards supporting militant Islamic groups, including groups with jihadist ties, that were favored by the regime of Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq in neighboring Pakistan, rather than other, less ideological Afghan resistance groups that had also been fighting the Soviet-oriented Democratic Republic of Afghanistan administration since before the Soviet intervention.[1]


In the late 1980s, Pakistani prime minister Benazir Bhutto, concerned about the growing strength of the Islamist movement, told President George H. W. Bush, "You are creating a Frankenstein."[70]


After the Soviet Union collapsed, we left Afghanistan


3. The 2003 invasion of Iraq was planned in 1998 - Because we wanted to change a regime.

Project for the New American Century - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

PNAC's stated goal was "to promote American global leadership."[6] The organization stated that "American leadership is good both for America and for the world," and sought to build support for "a Reaganite policy of military strength and moral clarity."[7]
In September 2000 PNAC released "Rebuilding America's Defenses" a report that promotes "the belief that America should seek to preserve and extend its position of global leadership by maintaining the preeminence of U.S. military forces." The report also states, "advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool."[22][23]

Calls for regime change in Iraq[edit]​

In 1998, Kristol and Kagan advocated regime change in Iraq throughout the Iraq disarmament process through articles that were published in the New York Times.[24][25] Following perceived Iraqi unwillingness to co-operate with UN weapons inspections, core members of the PNAC including Richard Perle, Paul Wolfowitz, R. James Woolsey, Elliott Abrams, Donald Rumsfeld, Robert Zoellick, and John Bolton were among the signatories of an open letter initiated by the PNAC to President Bill Clinton calling for the removal of Saddam Hussein.[19][26] Portraying Saddam Hussein as a threat to the United States, its Middle East allies, and oil resources in the region, and emphasizing the potential danger of any weapons of mass destruction under Iraq's control

________________
As this saying goes:
ALONG WITH THE GLORY COMES THE GORY!
 
Last edited:
Momoffourboys said:
They’re home.IDF Special Forces and ISA Forces are currently with the released hostages. They will continue to be accompanied by IDF soldiers as they make their way to Israeli hospitals, where they will be reunited with their families.The IDF, together with the entire Israeli security establishment, will continue operating until all the hostages are returned home.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1728100364111516025
Click to expand...
Now let's bring the rest home
Then it's time to get the show on the road. Moo
 
fred&edna said:
Why is America responsible for doing all the flipping work to repair all the hell that Islamic extremist terrorism inflicts on everyone in the middle east and beyond?? Why are these Islamic extremist leaders protected?? Why does no other territory, state, region want to accept Palestinians?? Why does this hell continue on and on and on perpetrated by Islamic extremists??

imo
Click to expand...
Interference with the geopolitical state of the middle east is very much down to the waning power of Britain as a great power in the aftermath of the last war and the rising power of the USA.

Others helped but these two must bear the brunt of what was made of this region.

Great Britain is no longer the world power some think we still are. But the leader of the free world is undoubtedly America and American friendship is the only voice that Israel will listen to.

What really distresses me about this debate is the fashion in which Palestinians are denigrated. Palestinians are people too who should be enjoying the rights other unoppressed people do. America is the land of the free. Imagine it was not but was under the diktat of a foreign power.
My opinion
 
Momoffourboys said:
Occupation? Settlements? Hamas leaders don’t want two state solution. They want a one state solution. Unless someone doesn’t believe them. Here are their own words.

Hamas official vows to repeat Israel attacks ‘again and again’ until it’s destroyed​


“The al-Aqsa Flood is just the first time and there will be a second, a third, a fourth because we have the determination, the resolve and the capabilities to fight,” Hamad said in an Oct. 24 Lebanese television interview republished by British outlets Wednesday.

Hamad said the terrorist organization is willing to “pay a price.”

“We are called a nation of martyrs and are proud to sacrifice martyrs,” Hamad said. “Israel is a country that has no place on our land. We must remove that country because it constitutes a security, military and political catastrophe to the Arab and Islamic nations, and must be finished.”

nypost.com

Hamas official vows to repeat Israel attacks ‘again and again’ until it’s destroyed

The brutal statement underscored the prospect of continued violence and misery in the region as Hamas and Israel both vowed to eradicate each the other and denied their right to exist.
nypost.com nypost.com
Click to expand...
They've not been very successful at doing that: I think they should be going back to the drawing board on that one and if given a fair option the Palestinian people might encourage them to do so. Those of them who are left.
 
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