Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #7

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Two state, three state, or quad state, as complex as the situation is, I dont think there will ever be a perfect solution.

As a side note, the first British general (not a starry eyed peace activist) sent to eliminate the IRA from Northern Ireland informed the British Prime Minister of the following:

1. The IRA was never going to defeat the British Army and....

2. There was no military solution to the conflict. Rather, fundamental changes were needed in the way local protestants were allowed to run the place.

I have a feeling that giving Israel the cash to build a bigger, better and badder wall will not militarily resolve the problem either.
Nothing Israel does or doesn't do will solve the problem.

The problem lies with the neighbours and their ideology; nothing will change until that changes. I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen.
 
Hamas has released several hostages.

I don't support Israel's indiscriminate air strikes on the areas it knows the hostages are being held.

JMO
From reading your posts I understand that you are against Israel using airstrikes in Gaza. So It's clear what you don't want them to do.

I'm asking what you think Israel's military should be doing in this conflict. JMO.
 
Very true.

In fairness, however, Israel has received a total of 260 Billion dollars in US funding over the generations.

I dont know how economically viable even they would be with out it. Likewise, US cash might allow the Israelis to get around making some tough decisions regarding their policies towards Palestinians.
Israel wouldn't exist today were it not for that funding. They'd have been over-run and slaughtered decades ago. Just a fact that the US clearly understands.

It's got nothing to do with Israel's policies; rather it's the policies of the neighbours that are the issue here.
 
The curious reality is that it is usually only very young men who are willing to actually die
My personal theory is they are motivated chiefly by lust.

Killing women and children and the elderly is forbidden in Islam, as we have been reminded by moderate Muslims.

So it’s not for Islam, though their commanders tell them it is. Which they swallow, or they wouldn’t shout about glory to their god as they slaughter children.

I think they are motivated by their true belief that they will have 72 virgins waiting for them in paradise. One of the imams that was quoted here denouncing Hamas as anti-Islamic called them 72 nymphs.

Lust for those women and also bloodlust. They are aroused to this by their commanders.

Lust for the bounty they stole from the Israelis they slaughtered. Cars, watches, money, electronics etc. If they die their families might get these goods.

Lust to feel they are special and have been “chosen” for “glory.”

Lust to make their families and Hamas commanders “proud” of them.

The older men are less willing to sacrifice themselves because they have satiated their lusts when young.

All JMO
 
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"Everything was shrouded in mystery.​

1698354036072.png

A complicated system of tunnels contains the Hamas management center and is a place where hostages are held.

In such conditions, freeing the prisoners becomes a 'suicide mission'.
Nobody will send counter-terrorists to certain death, because there would be traps waiting for them.

What distinguishes Hamas tunnels from al-Qaeda tunnels in the mountains of Afghanistan or Viet Cong tunnels in the jungles of Southeast Asia is that the underground network lies beneath one of the most densely populated areas on the planet.
Almost 2 million people live in an area of 88 square miles (227.92 square kilometers).

In 2021, Hamas reported that it had built tunnels that
would be up to 500 kilometers long.

Yochewed Lifshitz, a freed Hamas hostage, told the Jerusalem Post that she was led through a network of underground tunnels that 'resembled a spider's web'.

The trail was supposed to stretch for kilometers and it took about 3 hours to complete the entire route.

'There must be a hard, brutal calculation here'​

The expert - participant of the missions in Bosnia, Kosovo and Iraq - estimates that
the mission to rescue the hostages hidden in the tunnels under the Gaza Strip would be very risky.

'Everyone is calculating.
The safety of rescuers, in this case counterterrorists, is important.
No one will send them to certain death, because traps, ambushes and thousands of misfortunes would await them'.

He adds that the tunnels are very well secured and 'just waiting' for the super commandos to appear. -'But it would be a suicide mission, no one is likely to decide to do it.

Even despite the pressure from the hostages' families.
There must be a hard, brutal calculation here' - he emphasizes.

Palestinian side has been preparing for many months, even several years, and the tunnels are drilled to a depth of several dozen meters.

'When they were built, everything was shrouded in mystery.

This is not one series of underground corridors, but they are definitely interconnected',
he says.

'Bombardment will not help, and venturing into the tunnels is fraught with great risk.
There are units that specialize in such activities, but all this is not simple'.

As the colonel emphasizes, something like an underground town has been created under Gaza, with hospitals, logistic centers and equipment.

'And an opponent is willing to sacrifice his life -
it is the worst opponent that there can be' -
says the expert, describing the actions of Hamas."

1698354285435.png



From my country's MSM
 
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Though you have very good and valid analogies, the problem as a whole is more complex. For example, I hope the House of Vern would not do any of the following via legal permission from the City Government:

- Deem that one neighbor's back yard is "abandoned", then seize it.

- Deem that another neighbor's garage is "under utilized" (neighbor does not have a car- right?), then seize it for "redevelopment".

- Deem that the stairs going to their front door are an "illegal construction"- then tear them down. Once the neighbor is elderly, they won't really be able to get into the house. Looks like another future "abandonment" (wink, nod)....

- Encourage hostile people to camp in the other neighbor's former back yard. They then constantly shine big mag light flash lights through the house windows and taunt them etc.
Israel won the war, and that land, in 1948 that the Palestinians and the arabs started with them when they were a mere 1 day old. That's just a fact.

NOW the Palestinians want to go back to the 1947 borders.

They want to erase the 1948 war that they started and lost from history as well as the fact that they lost 60% of their land in the process.

Apparently, many others also want to ignore that fact too.

I bet you that Palestine wouldn't want to rewrite history had the won that war they started though.

Just the facts.
 
Moo..so this is basically a religious/cultural war?
So there can be no compromise. Warlords that use religion to hold power over people. Like Northern Ireland the children are raised in a culture of hate and fear. But really a better example would be the Mexican Cartel which is at least honest enough not to use religion..it is just about power and money. Or Haiti where the gangs take control. I cannot feel resentment for the Palestinians because what political party could stand up to Hamas, the Palestinians really have no choice but to accept what cannot be changed. Gangs/terrorists all over the world are getting larger, stronger and more deadly. Even if the bulk of Hamas is terminated some leaders will be left and they will just regroup....moo
I think your analogy with Northern reland and the culture of hate is spot-on here.

A friend and co-worker of mine (Colin) was awarded the Queen's Commendation for Bravery for defusing a massive car bomb there in 1995 while serving with the British Army.

He came over here for an stint on exchange to teach at our military school and ended up transferring to the Canadian Army as he and his wife liked it here so much. The stories this man can tell about the hate that was so rampant back then is crazy. He's always said it would take generations to fix ... after they get the hate out of the education systems and the homes and that the first generation of children who grow up without that hate being taught at home or school will have to be grandparents before change would be realized.
 

The Gulf state at centre of delicate hostage talks​


The abduction by Hamas of over 200 hostages seized from southern Israel on 7 October has propelled the small, gas-rich Arab Gulf state of Qatar into the diplomatic spotlight. Their fate is, to some degree, in Qatar's hands.

Why? For the simple reason that Qatar is fulfilling a unique role as the principal mediator between Israel and its avowed enemy, Hamas.
….

These hostages, say Qatari officials, would most likely be dual-nationals and non-Israelis.



BBM Reminiscent of Nazi era selection.
 
Why are you constantly calling information from Israeli sources “propaganda” and yet refusing to call into question facts and figures released from a terrorist state?
JMO.
Because propaganda always accompanies a war.
I haven't refused to call into question the facts and figures released by Hamas so please don't misrepresent my postings which I make clear are my opinion.

I've seen the videos and photos released by U.S. news media of the Palestinian women, elderly and children being slaughtered in Gaza by the Israeli military.

JMO
 
Israel won the war, and that land, in 1948 that the Palestinians and the arabs started with them when they were a mere 1 day old. That's just a fact.

NOW the Palestinians want to go back to the 1947 borders.
The Israelis did lose the 1948. But that victory did not give them the West Bank and Gaza strip. Rather, these two territories were won by the Israeli victory in 1967 "Lightning out of Israel".

That aside....

What many Palestinians want is no more shrinkage of lands currently under Palestinian control via legalized creativity that permits new settlements to built on Palestinian land deemed, abandoned, under used etc. Israeli law also allows forced buy outs on other occasions.

In short.... Military victories always give "conquest rights" to the victor (as you mentioned). But actually using all "conquest rights" is not always smart. Using the US and the Native Americans as an example:

- The European colonists took alot of "conquest rights" when they beat the native Americans. Pretty much all native reservations are uhmm.... "down sized" from historical tribal land holdings (conquest rights). And... being fair: Natives Americans also took out a lot of conquest rights on each other.

But...

- The Lakota reservation (Custer fame) is not being subject to continuing creative shrinkage today. Uncle Sam is not permitting additional groups of armed settlers into the reservation. Uncle Sam has not established Lakota "no go" areas on the reservation. Nor, does Uncle Sam place restrictions on what reservation roads the Lakota can use. Lakota who left "the rez" (West Bank) are free to move back at any time.

Israel does all of the above with new settlement construction on the West Bank..... .

.
 
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I'm so grateful the American news media is capturing video of the war crimes from both sides.

JMO


Israel has criticized Amnesty International as “biased” after the rights group published a statement saying that “serious violations of international humanitarian law, including war crimes, by all parties to the conflict continue unabated.”

Amnesty called on Thursday for “an immediate ceasefire by all parties.” Its secretary-general, Agnès Callamard, said in the statement that “urgent action is needed to protect civilians and prevent further staggering levels of human suffering.”

But her claim that “war crimes” had been committed “by all parties” drew a harsh response from Israel.
 
Each and every one of them a war crime as these rockets actually are "indiscriminate".

Nary a peep, but I bet you Israel's counting ....
Being a little facetious...

Maybe somebody could give the Palestinians laser guided weapons to better "discriminate"? But.... I dont think that would go over well with the Israeli government.
 
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