Israel - Palestinian militants launch massive attack, 7 Oct 2023 #8

[Vern]

During WW2, Western Canada rounded up the Japaense and put them in a camp in the Rocky Mountains until the end of the war. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time. It's a bit like Israelis trying to peacefully live with Hamas sympathizers during war. 1400 family members in farming communities were terrorized, mutilated, murdered, beheaded and burned. Two piles of 10 children with their hands tied behind their backs. Burned to a crisp, might be identified by teeth.

A group of Hamas sympathizers living in Israel's backyard is reasonable cause for concern. Only way around it for people in the West Bank is to 100% support the victims, assist with identifying the locations of hostages, and cooperate with Israel. Anything less means they are a threat that needs to be contained.

The internment of Japanese in Canada under the guise of the War Measures Act during WW2 (until 1949) was the basis of my research paper during my CAF ILP (Intermediate Leadership Program) as a Warrant Officer many years ago. We held over 90% of the Japanese Canadian population in these camps at the time - entire families.

Interesting to note that the United States also did similar with 70+ Internment Camps holding over 100K japanese Americans.

Fear was of an uprising of a "5th Column" - an uprising from within this population within the US and Canada to undermine Allied War efforts as war was already raging in Europe, Africa, Asia and the near, far and mid-east which led to combined paranoia of 'sabotage from within' here in North America. Prime Minister Mulroney restored Canadian citizenship to all those, and their descendents who had been deported and made repartions on behalf of Canada to those who were interred.

There are some parallels with how Israel is probably feeling about the risk 'from within' ... and with the neighbouring Arabic nations as well given their hesitantcy to allow passage through the border of internationals and dual-citizens. They also have actual experience with Palestinian refugees already within their nations causing issues with their national governments and local populations.

At some point, those actions and the future risks are going to have to be acknowledged and a future path figured out to mitigate the risks posed by a population that supported a Hamas Government running the Gaza at 57% favourability rating as recently as July 2023. The survey's have been posted into the thread a few times already, but I can go look for them again if you wish.

No one wants to risk that (that being 'more of the same') in their own back yards.

 

[Vern]

I've read this a couple of times today - that the reason foreigners are trapped at the Egypt border is that Hamas is preventing them from leaving.

I was certain that I had read until now that the problem was between Egypt and Israel - that they could not agree on releasing foreigners from Gaza into Egypt. The deal was that they enter Egypt, head to the airport, go home. They have never wanted to remain in Egypt, and Israel had no reason to interfere.

Today, the news switched. Hamas is the problem preventing foreigners from going home.

Some people keep saying that but the Rafah border is controlled by the Egyptians and the Palestinian Border Authorities (ie: Hamas).

Israel's issue and stance is regarding fuel moving across the border or not. There is some movement on this front now, but previously the Israeli's have flat-out stated that they would strike any and all fuel shipments that crossed the border due to their being co-opted by Hamas for use by the enemy in prolonging the war.

 

[fred&edna]

Although ... I'd imagine any incursion by these people into a U.S. base, will be met with a fair amount of force ?
What do they think they'll do even if they surround the military bases, break in, in a group -- and start shooting ?
Maybe the citizens of Turkey will ignore this man.
Still, what foolish words to tell the Turkish people, does he want to see them in harm's way ?
Omo.

Heck if I know.... maybe rally violence and disruption along the route?

 

[PommyMommy]

43min ago

Iran warns proxy groups like the Houthis could expand operations against Israel​

“The warnings from Iran regarding the initial days of the Gaza civilian casualties highlighted a concern: if these atrocities were not halted, they could incite public outrage and exhaust the patience of the resistance movements,” the Iranian mission says in a statement to the Associated Press. “These concerns can be averted and the responsibility lies squarely in the hands of the American administration to halt the transgressions perpetuated by the Israeli regime.”

The statement comes after the Houthis claimed responsibility for a missile fired at Eilat on Tuesday that was shot down by the Israeli military. Hours later, the Israel Defense Forces announced that it again intercepted an “aerial threat” near Eilat.

Israel-Hamas war live: US and Israel ‘consider peacekeeping force in Gaza’; Israel says it carried out Jabalia airstrike (theguardian.com)
3m ago02.58 GMT

South of the Gaza City, Israeli troops are reportedly still trying to cut off Gaza’s main highway and the parallel road along the Mediterranean coast, according to Dawood Shehab, a spokesperson for Islamic Jihad, a smaller militant group allied with Hamas.

Zaki Abdel-Hay, a Palestinian living a few minutes’ walk from the road south of Gaza City, told the Associate Press people are afraid to use it. “People are very scared. The Israeli tanks are still close,” he said over the phone, adding that “constant artillery fire” could be heard near the road.

 

[Sundog]

Although ... I'd imagine any incursion by these people into a U.S. base, will be met with a fair amount of force ?
What do they think they'll do even if they surround the military bases, break in, in a group -- and start shooting ?
Maybe the citizens of Turkey will ignore this man.
Still, what foolish words to tell the Turkish people, does he want to see them in harm's way ?
Omo.

I'm sure the U.S. State Department is on the phone with President Erdogan regarding the safety of our service members who are stationed there. I don't think Erdogan would allow anything to happen to our troops. And even though most Turkish citziens won't support this, the guy who is calling for the march will appeal to the radical among the people and there will likely be a good turnout for such a protest. I pray it is only saber rattling and there are no incidents of violence. I can't imagine that anyone but Iran wants escalation of conflict in the region.

 

[fred&edna]

https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1719549645586661496?s=20

 

[PommyMommy]

https://x.com/sentdefender/status/1719549645586661496?s=20

Grrrrrr...

The Al-Tanaf Military Base used by the U.S. Forces in Southern Syria near the Border with Iraq and Jordan has reportedly just been Targeted by Iranian-Backed Militias with 2 “Kamikaze” Attack Drones; this is now likely the Fourth Attack on American Troops in Syria within the last 12 Hours.

 

[otto]

The internment of Japanese in Canada under the guise of the War Measures Act during WW2 (until 1949) was the basis of my research paper during my CAF ILP (Intermediate Leadership Program) as a Warrant Officer man years ago. We held over 90% of the Japanese Canadian population in these camps at the time - entire families.

Interesting to note that the United States also did similar with 70+ Internment Camps holding over 100K japanese Americans.

Fear was of an uprising of a "5th Column" - an uprising from within this population within the US and Canada to undermine Allied War efforts as war was already raging in Europe, Africa, Asia and the near, far and mid-east which led to combined paranoia of 'sabotage from within' here in North America. Prime Minister Mulroney restored Canadian citizenship to all those, and their descendents who had been deported and made repartions on behalf of Canada to those who were interred.

There are some parallels with how Israel is probably feeling about the risk 'from within' ... and with the neighbouring Arabic nations as well given their hesitantcy to allow passage through the border of internationals and dual-citizens. They also have actual experience with Palestinian refugees already within their nations causing issues with their national governments and local populations.

At some point, those actions and the future risks are going to have to be acknowledged and a future path figured out to mitigate the risks posed by a population that supported a Hamas Government running the Gaza at 57% favourability rating as recently as Juy 2023.

No one wants to risk that (that being 'more of the same') in their own back yards.

I think the only way forward is that all Hamas sympathizers and citizens live in the Gaza strip. If they want, they can still turn it into Dubai - it's up to them.

The region will be rebuilt, but it cannot be another terrorists training centre for children 4 years old and older. It has to be a modern, civilized society that does not raise their children to chop off the heads of babies, and brag to their parents afterward. They need to modernize, join the world, act normal, get off drugs.

They don't have to leave Gaza. The entire population of Gaza should stay in Gaza. The behaviour of young adults in Gaza is not normal. What Hamas soldiers have done in Israel is sociopathic behaviour. What Gaza women have done is step around mutilated bodies while looting. There's nothing normal about these people.

 

[justtrish]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1719453489120550951

I might be a bit biased but the US has some pretty amazing and well trained special forces. They've gotten in and out of some tricky places and rescued people before so I am praying they can be an asset to Israel's efforts to rescue more hostages.

 

[Friday Fan]

The internment of Japanese in Canada under the guise of the War Measures Act during WW2 (until 1949) was the basis of my research paper during my CAF ILP (Intermediate Leadership Program) as a Warrant Officer many years ago. We held over 90% of the Japanese Canadian population in these camps at the time - entire families.

Interesting to note that the United States also did similar with 70+ Internment Camps holding over 100K japanese Americans.

Fear was of an uprising of a "5th Column" - an uprising from within this population within the US and Canada to undermine Allied War efforts as war was already raging in Europe, Africa, Asia and the near, far and mid-east which led to combined paranoia of 'sabotage from within' here in North America. Prime Minister Mulroney restored Canadian citizenship to all those, and their descendents who had been deported and made repartions on behalf of Canada to those who were interred.

There are some parallels with how Israel is probably feeling about the risk 'from within' ... and with the neighbouring Arabic nations as well given their hesitantcy to allow passage through the border of internationals and dual-citizens. They also have actual experience with Palestinian refugees already within their nations causing issues with their national governments and local populations.

At some point, those actions and the future risks are going to have to be acknowledged and a future path figured out to mitigate the risks posed by a population that supported a Hamas Government running the Gaza at 57% favourability rating as recently as July 2023. The survey's have been posted into the thread a few times already, but I can go look for them again if you wish.

No one wants to risk that (that being 'more of the same') in their own back yards.

The US Japanese Internment Camps lasted a few years and they weren't extremely crowded. (I think some were allowed to leave after two years) This thing with Gaza has been going on for 16 years, I believe the US also provided reparations. Shutting off Gaza forever is not a sustainable solution. I don't have a solution...just a comment....

An aside, a friend of mine taught school in Crystal CIty, TX and the camp was turned into a teachers' housing.

 

[otto]

Some people keep saying that but the Rafah border is controlled by the Egyptians and the Palestinian Border Authorities (ie: Hamas).

Israel's issue and stance is regarding fuel moving across the border or not. There is some movement on this front now, but previously the Israeli's have flat-out stated that they would strike any and all fuel shipments that crossed the border due to their being co-opted by Hamas for use by the enemy in prolonging the war.

And rightly so, but there's no reason that Israel would prevent foreigners from transitting from Gaza through Egypt to go home - after security clearance (which doesn't take 3 weeks). The problem has been Hamas from the beginning. It's as though they treat all people with dual nationality in Gaza as hostages ... some above ground, some below ground.

Israel cannot allow fuel into Gaza. Hamas has 3 months of fuel stores, and fuel demand has drastically decreased during the war. Hamas Government can keep hospitals running if they want to, if they recognize their responsibility for the people of Gaza.

 

[Vern]

I might be a bit biased but the US has some pretty amazing and well trained special forces. They've gotten in and out of some tricky places and rescued people before so I am praying they can be an asset to Israel's efforts to rescue more hostages.

All western nation's SOF are very good at things like this. Some advertize more than others. I have confidence that, combined, they will be able to rescue as many hostages as is possible given the circumstances; it's a jungle in there.

 

[fred&edna]

Grrrrrr...

The Al-Tanaf Military Base used by the U.S. Forces in Southern Syria near the Border with Iraq and Jordan has reportedly just been Targeted by Iranian-Backed Militias with 2 “Kamikaze” Attack Drones; this is now likely the Fourth Attack on American Troops in Syria within the last 12 Hours.

I'm sorry Pommy... I'm steppin' on your toes with some of my posts. I know you've got OSINT covered, I just get over-excited sometimes

 

[Vern]

And rightly so, but there's no reason that Israel would prevent foreigners from transitting from Gaza through Egypt to go home - after security clearance (which doesn't take 3 weeks). The problem has been Hamas from the beginning. It's as though they treat all people with dual nationality in Gaza as hostages ... some above ground, some below ground.

Israel cannot allow fuel into Gaza. Hamas has 3 months of fuel stores, and fuel demand has drastically decreased during the war. Hamas Government can keep hospitals running if they want to, if they recognize their responsibility for the people of Gaza.

Oh, I agree 110%!!

I called the foreigners and dual citizens "hostages" of Hamas a couple of weeks ago.

 

[fred&edna]

The US Japanese Internment Camps lasted a few years and they weren't extremely crowded. (I think some were allowed to leave after two years) This thing with Gaza has been going on for 16 years, I believe the US also provided reparations. Shutting off Gaza forever is not a sustainable solution. I don't have a solution...just a comment....

An aside, a friend of mine taught school in Crystal CIty, TX and the camp was turned into a teachers' housing.

'Just wish some of Marzouk's $$$$ could get into good hands.

 

[SouthAussie]

I might be a bit biased but the US has some pretty amazing and well trained special forces. They've gotten in and out of some tricky places and rescued people before so I am praying they can be an asset to Israel's efforts to rescue more hostages.

Israel has done some pretty amazing hostage rescues as well ..... eg: Entebbe raid

As you say, between Israel and the US, they should be able to make the best effort .... if hostage rescue is at all feasible.

 

[Friday Fan]

Israel has done some pretty amazing hostage rescues as well ..... eg: Entebbe raid

As you say, between Israel and the US, they should be able to make the best effort .... if hostage rescue is at all feasible.

I don't know how good the US is with regards to hostages.
Seriously, our track record isn't all that good.

 

[Friday Fan]

I think the only way forward is that all Hamas sympathizers and citizens live in the Gaza strip. If they want, they can still turn it into Dubai - it's up to them.

They can't turn it into Dubai. Gaza doesn't have oil!

 

[PommyMommy]

I'm sorry Pommy... I'm steppin' on your toes with some of my posts. I know you've got OSINT covered, I just get over-excited sometimes

Oh no, I don't have anything covered, lol. We need everyone posting the news in this one if we're going to keep up. I promise you, you're not steppin' on my toes one little bit. I appreciate you so much! xoxo

 

[Brightchaser47]

I don't know how good the US is with regards to hostages.
Seriously, our track record isn't all that good.

I'm just glad the two militaries are working together on this.