It's time to drain the Anthony pool

[shadow of my mind]

A 54" round pool that is 4 foot high would require 64 cubic foot of water. This is not a very big pool About 502 gallons of water. It would take about 8 hours with average house water pressure and with a garden hose to fill back up. That would make a big jump in ones water bill for the month.
It would take at least two stong people to lift a part of the pool up enough to put someone under there and then the pool would have to be empty. Any water left in the liner would make it heavy as h*ll to lift. This would mean that the body would be close to the edge of the covered space. I would think that the dogs would hit anything that close to edge.

The steel walls would also become a major problem once the pool is empty. Floopy and easly to dent.

But if this was done and Caylee was put in the middle, wrapped in pladtic I don't think the dogs would hit on it. Too much plastic, steel and water in the way.

Someone who has more experience with cadavor dogs would know better how much can be between their nose and the body.

 

[BondJamesBond]

If you want to know if the soil was changed in a particular area, walk the perimeter of the pool while in it and feel for areas that are depressed.

Interesting idea!

Even if Anthony Inc. entombed in a small bit of concrete they wouldn't have been able to compact the disturbed soil/sand base as much as original install per Patty G's point.

Best move the storage box by the side of the pool also and take a look under it. Also check where George moved the bush.Take the playhouse out, take the pavers out........it's the only way to be sure.

I suspect the storage box was pretty well inspected around/under during the LE scouring, especially since it was located where the soil was disturbed (same as the "indentation" from 400pgs I believe). I've been thinking this was the location of the temporary, shallow grave OR the storage box itself was used and later 'sanitized' thoroughly. It appears to be the large Rubbermaid type that isn't made to be leak-proof (assembles in sections).
(1) If the body was inside, decomp fluid leaked into the soil which then had to be removed, or,
(2) If the body was in a shallow grave there in the corner, the storage box was moved over the top of it to (a) conceal it and (b) protect it from Fido's digging

 

[kh1967]

I find it interesting that the pool is green. Sounded like when Caylee was alive they used the pool a lot. If someone died in MY pool I wouldn't want to swim in it, either. Just saying.

I doesnt take much for a pool to turn green. Especially in FL with the acidic rain from the hurricanes and the temps. The chemicals, algecide etc has to checked everyday. i went away for a weekend and I came home to a flurecent green pool. They probably are too busy scheming their defense to work on the pool.

 

[Leila]

If I were OSCO, one of the things I'd do now is obtain a search warrant for the past two calenar years' water bills for 4937 Hopespring Drive (assuming they do not have a well) and note the usage for each month. If there is even the slightest indication that the water usage in June/July '08 would support filling the pool, I would have it drained and the ground underneath it searched. A slow fill spread over two billing periods might be hard to distinguish, but, when compared to other months to factor out sprinkler usage, etc. it should stand out.

Considering (a) the basic evidence and (b) the resources being expended on the case already - I think its time to drain the pool.

"snipped"

Up until last year we had a similar above-ground pool in our backyard for our grandson. Our pool was 15 feet in diameter by 4 feet in height. We put the pool up every May and took it down in October for the winter. When we set it up, it would only take a day to set up and fill, using two garden hoses. The capacity was about 4500 gallons. When we took it down in October, it would only take about a day to take down.

The Anthony pool looks like it's either 15 or 18 feet in diameter, so I guess it would be very similar to our pool. It could be taken down in one day, something could be buried underneath it, and it would take another day to set it back up and refill it.

The one drawback is where did water go if the pool had been drained? In our case, we have a large orchard and vegetable garden and my husband drained the pool to the orchard and garden.

In the case of the Anthony pool, if they drained it to the rear of the property.........over the back fence, it might not be noticed by neighbors. But if they drained it to the curb out front, neighbors would notice a steady stream of water for the better part of the day.

 

[maswondering2]

Sorry, maswonderin', you lost me - which isn't hard to do

Anthonyland Platoon = G&C?

revealled! vs. revealed?

I think you're talkin' about the Greta interview when G&C said they'd disclosed all their backyardigan-shenanigans to LE, but, then, I'm assumin' that's what you mean...an I don't like to assume if'n I don't hafta

If I had a garden hose I could toss in from the neighbors house I'd have that pool siphoned out by now and prove Patty G's point so I could move onto the crawlspace w/ the cadaver dogs before the sunsets tomorrow.

The whole thing is like calling the high-$$ computer tech in for a housecall without checking to see if the PC's plugged in first :banghead:

sorry should have been revealed....but yes we are on the same page here.... you want me to go to the door and cause a ruckous out front with the protestors and you can sneak in the backyard with your garden hose???

 

[Mysticj]

I find it interesting that the pool is green. Sounded like when Caylee was alive they used the pool a lot. If someone died in MY pool I wouldn't want to swim in it, either. Just saying.

I find this interesting not because I think she died in the pool but that Casey thought she could revive her body by putting it in the pool. Cooling her down is what i think.

 

[Meech]

I was tossing & turning in the wee hours of the morning today and I finally gave way to the inevitable - staring @ the ceiling and thinking more about this case.

I'm thinking this morning it's a "forest for the trees" situation w/ this case. In sifting through the details I've been overlooking the basic facts and not allowing myself to be objective.

* Toddler is missing for 30+ days before reported
* Toddler's mother AND grandparents, in the home where she resides all behave suspiciously
* The car registered to the grandmother and driven by the mother contains evidence of the toddler's death
* The backyard of the residence is indicated by cadaver dogs

If I were OSCO, one of the things I'd do now is obtain a search warrant for the past two calenar years' water bills for 4937 Hopespring Drive (assuming they do not have a well) and note the usage for each month. If there is even the slightest indication that the water usage in June/July '08 would support filling the pool, I would have it drained and the ground underneath it searched. A slow fill spread over two billing periods might be hard to distinguish, but, when compared to other months to factor out sprinkler usage, etc. it should stand out.

Considering (a) the basic evidence and (b) the resources being expended on the case already - I think its time to drain the pool.

Ditto! :clap:
This thought flashed thru my mind today!

 

[Terilee]

someone today on this site under the "anthony donations" thread posted that they found Lee's user name on ebay and he recently purchased some kind of part for a pool or pool cleaner. Interesting.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

I was just going to say the same thing, about the neighbors noticing. I definitely think LE would already know if the pool had been drained at all this summer. I know we had to drain our pool early this summer, and there was no one on our street that didn't know about it. Water was running all down the street, so it was pretty obvious.

Not necessarily............My pool has a drain which drains to the woods behind the house. I noticed there was a drainage type area behind their fence.

Even if they wanted to drain it in full view..............All they would have had to do was "wait' for a heavy rain and no one would be the wiser. There were many heavy rains since June.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

It would take at least two stong people to lift a part of the pool up enough to put someone under there and then the pool would have to be empty. Any water left in the liner would make it heavy as h*ll to lift. This would mean that the body would be close to the edge of the covered space. I would think that the dogs would hit anything that close to edge.
QUOTE]

The dogs DID hit on the edge of the pool.

 

[TURBOTHINK]

if she was buried under the pool, wouldn't LE have noticed a disturbance at the bottom of it? is it a plastic bottom or a concrete/cement bottom?

Most above ground pools like that one have only a few inches of sand under the bottom. IT would be easy.

 

[Maui4me]

My boss had an above ground pool that looked like theirs. He took it down every year and put back up in spring. It was easy and easy to repair.

As I recall at the Anthony house....

Plants were moved

Sandbox moved?

A new deck poured or pavers over the July 4th weekend

Pool area is a thought


That backyard had loads of opportunities....

Thanks to all for thinking outside the box and posting your theories....

 

[Elphaba]

Simple solution: no need to drain the pool... just check the pools bottom to see if there are any tell-tell indentions. While yeah, a slight disturbance could be detected in the pools bottom if something had been done recently, it's decomp that could make the bigger impact over time: as the body gasses out and decomp cycles onward, sand would more than likely sift inwards on the decomposing body, creating an indention. Add in the weight of the water, the indention happens quicker under the water pressure pushing down on the floor. All it would take is looking at the bottom of the pool for a specific indention that doesn't correlate to the rest of the pool's bottom. (that is, if the bottom is the usual soft plastic liner that is sitting on sand.)


This decomping/gassing issue is why the rumors that a body exists in Hoover Dam of some unfortunate construction work, are not true: there was no way builders would have left a full size human body in the concrete... the decomp/gassing would have created a pocket that could have lead to the jeopardization of the integrity of the dams retention structure, possibly causing an eventual collapse in the area the body gassed out at.

It's all about the decomp...

 

[Elphaba]

Also to add, my personal opinion: I'm not too keen on thinking a body could be under there. Far, far, far too much work would have to go into taking the pool down and setting it back up, just to bury something under it. I grew up with pools being put in our backyards and a couple of times my parents insisted on doing it theirselves, dragging my brother and I into helping. It was tedious, time consuming and a pain in the tail to take them down and to put them up.

 

[Camper]

I wonder IF one of the devices that fishermen use that detect fish in the water would or could be used to see the bottom of the pool? I believe it is a sonar type fishing detector. Wondering IF a man put into a floatable fishing inner tube could cover the pool water area with a sonar device?

.

 

[Camper]

Tried to edit my above post and system would not LET me.

I wonder IF one of the devices that fishermen use that detect fish in the water would or could be used to see the bottom of the pool? I believe it is a sonar type fishing detector. Wondering IF a man put into a floatable fishing inner tube could cover the pool water area with a sonar device?

After thought ..... wondering if sonar could see a lump in the pool or if plastic could prohibit that view? Hubby and I looked at those devices years and years ago when they first made the fish detectors. Wondering IF the ability of this equipment has improved since then that MIGHT allow such investigation?

IF the cadaver dog hit on the edge of the pool perhaps there is forensic evidence that MAY not have been collected at that spot, that could be more telling?

.

 

[boogiebear]

I thought I would throw this out there because of discussion about the pool and back yard.

We've already discussed the drowning theory and that KC backed the car up to load the baby's body...

What if we're wrong. What if she unloaded instead of loading?

On June 18 when the neighbor said she backed up to the garage and borrowed a shovel for an hour, why did we think she dug up the body?

Isn't just as possible that Caylee died somewhere else and she brought the baby home and buried her somewhere around the house?

Under the pool, under where the new pavers were installed?

Wouldn't it be easy to dig under the pool and hide her there?
Or under her sandbox?

What do you think?

The dogs would have hit on the pool itself. I have a 230lb Mastiff service dog, and because of that, I have met quite a few working dogs and their handlers. There is no way 2 different dogs would have missed an actual human body under the pool. The dogs would have started digging at the pool wall and they would have to be physically pulled away. The handlers would not have missed that hit, and the dog can easily smell under that pool.

 

[Camper]

Tried to edit my above post and system would not LET me.

I wonder IF one of the devices that fishermen use that detect fish in the water would or could be used to see the bottom of the pool? I believe it is a sonar type fishing detector. Wondering IF a man put into a floatable fishing inner tube could cover the pool water area with a sonar device?

After thought ..... wondering if sonar could see a lump in the pool or if plastic could prohibit that view? Hubby and I looked at those devices years and years ago when they first made the fish detectors. Wondering IF the ability of this equipment has improved since then that MIGHT allow such investigation?

IF the cadaver dog hit on the edge of the pool perhaps there is forensic evidence that MAY not have been collected at that spot, that could be more telling?

.

Update: I just talked personally with the Orange County Sheriffs Dept, and gave my information to Paula.

Anyone know what Caylees Grandfather does for a living or is he retired? He looks VERY SMART and NERVOUS.

I also wonder what the life of chloroform fumes is, and what size container it comes in? IF it puts a person OUT I wonder what it does to the smelling abilities of a cadaver dog at the edge of the pool?

.

 

[BondJamesBond]

The dogs would have hit on the pool itself. I have a 230lb Mastiff service dog, and because of that, I have met quite a few working dogs and their handlers. There is no way 2 different dogs would have missed an actual human body under the pool. The dogs would have started digging at the pool wall and they would have to be physically pulled away. The handlers would not have missed that hit, and the dog can easily smell under that pool.

Thanks, boogiebear. That's the kinda info I was lookin' for.

IF you can hangaround a second...I was going to ask if the Anthony home is a slab home or on a foundation. To that end, if a body were buried under the home in a crawlspace, and the dogs were on the property, if they weren't led to the crawlspace, would they indicate somehow?

 

[boogiebear]

IF the cadaver dog hit on the edge of the pool perhaps there is forensic evidence that MAY not have been collected at that spot, that could be more telling?

.

There is a different hit for exactly this spot and near this spot.(The dogs know the difference. If a dog can pinpoint on a small cancer on your back, it can tell the difference between where someone put down a body, buried a body and dug it up, and where an actual body is buried at the moment. The smells vary in intensity, which the dogs are very sensitive too. As a handler who trains scent dogs told me, it is like a bell pepper taste compared to a habanero.) If there was a spot with an actual body, the dog would have told the handler, all the areas, not just two.
There were two dogs, that hit on two spots.
There was some disturbed ground near the pool that they pointed out to George. This was very intersting to them.

It has been suggested that the first spot was where the body was laid down, when the temporary burial spot was dug. The second hit was the disturbed soil near the pool (this has only been rumored, but seems extremely logical, we do know two hits, and disturbed soil, this theory happens to connect the two) where the body was stored, until someone came back later taking the body to the final spot, or another spot to store the body. When the body was dug up this time severe decomp would have set in, and fluids would be leaking out of the body. Any place this body was put to transport, would have been soaked in decomp fluid, causing a stain.