Japan - Japan Airline plane bursts into flame on landing after poss. coll. with coastguard plane, 5 dead - 2 Jan 2024

[investikater]

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A dog and a cat, both pets, had to be left on the plane and died, the airline said."

Nooooo! What a tragedy, they must have died horribly. The aviation industry needs to work out how animals can be evacuated in emergencies too!

 

[investikater]

I can think of one possibility....

The language of international aviation is English and flight crews and air traffic controllers are presumed to be fluent in English regarding aviation terms and commands.

But... I wonder how proficient in English Japanese Coast Guard pilots are? Likewise, what language do Japanese military air traffic controllers use?

If Japanese military and coast guard aviators frequently use Japanese, the small difference between say: "Cleared to pre take off holding area" and "Cleared for take off" might have been misunderstood by the Coast Guard crew.

As a side note, language confusion led to one aviation disaster when a Spanish speaking pilot was dangerously low on fuel and being delayed by ATC. The pilot repeatedly requested a "priority landing" in English. The ATC then cut him in line a few planes. But... the pilot should have used the term "emergency landing".

Hmm you might be on to something

 

[JennieM]

Japan jet crash: Airline pilots unaware of cabin fire until crew told them​

Pilots of a Japanese airliner that collided with a smaller plane at Tokyo Haneda Airport were initially unaware that their jet was on fire.

It was a flight attendant who informed them of the cabin fire, a Japan Airlines spokesperson told the BBC.

After which, the evacuation of all 379 on board Japan Airlines Flight 516 proceeded with life-saving precision.

Five of six people on board the smaller coastguard plane, a Bombardier Dash-8, died.

"Right after the plane touched down, the pilot felt a sudden shock, and lost control to stay in the runway. A fire took place but the pilots didn't recognise it in the beginning and learned about it [through the] cabin attendant," the JAL spokesperson said.

There were three pilots and 12 flight attendants on board when the incident took place. The aircraft's announcement system was damaged, leaving the crew to use megaphones and their own voices to shout instructions.

[…]

Japan jet crash: Airline pilots unaware of cabin fire until crew told them

It was a flight attendant who raised the alarm about the cabin fire, said an airline spokesperson.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[IceIce9]

Nooooo! What a tragedy, they must have died horribly. The aviation industry needs to work out how animals can be evacuated in emergencies too!

The dog could have been in cargo but a cat surely would have been under the passenger’s seat. How incredibly sad.

 

[MollyHarps]

The dog could have been in cargo but a cat surely would have been under the passenger’s seat. How incredibly sad.

The cat would be in the cargo also I think?

The only animals allowed actually in the passenger section are guide dogs and service animals I believe.

 

[Tealgrove]

That video of the passengers escaping looks like hell on earth. I cannot even imagine the terror.

It’s a miracle that they all survived and an absolute tragedy that 5 died from the smaller aircraft.

MOO

 

[IceIce9]

The cat would be in the cargo also I think?

The only animals allowed actually in the passenger section are guide dogs and service animals I believe.

I’ve flown with a cat four times and a small dog many times.

If the pet is small enough to fit into a carrier that fits under the seat you are allowed to fly with it in the cabin.

 

[Charlot123]

Japan jet crash: passenger plane was cleared to land, say officials

Smaller plane on runway was not cleared for takeoff, however, say authorities as investigations begin

www.theguardian.com

A bit more about the conflicting reports. This stood out to me.

Hiroyuki Kobayashi, a former JAL pilot and aviation analyst, said: “There’s a strong possibility this involved human error. Only one plane is generally allowed to enter the runway but even though landing clearance had been given, the Japan coastguard aircraft was on the runway.”

The fact that it was nighttime and Bombardier had no transponders, one wonders it it could have "mechanically contributed" to human error.

 

[investikater]

The dog could have been in cargo but a cat surely would have been under the passenger’s seat. How incredibly sad.

The cat would be in the cargo also I think?

The only animals allowed actually in the passenger section are guide dogs and service animals I believe.

I’ve flown with a cat four times and a small dog many times.

If the pet is small enough to fit into a carrier that fits under the seat you are allowed to fly with it in the cabin.

It depends on airline and location.

I flew a cat unaccompanied in Australia once and I'm pretty sure she went in the hold.

It looks like in the US people manage to fly with a variety of animals in the cabin sometimes?

I wonder if we could find the rules for that airline somewhere?

 

[IceIce9]

It depends on airline and location.

I flew a cat unaccompanied in Australia once and I'm pretty sure she went in the hold.

It looks like in the US people manage to fly with a variety of animals in the cabin sometimes?

I wonder if we could find the rules for that airline somewhere?

Yes, one pet per passenger is allowed in the cabin on JAL flights:


Pets must be in good health, not predisposed to cause harm to other animals, humans, or objects, and should not have an offensive odor. Pregnant pets will not be accepted. Only one pet per container and one container per passenger in the cabin and the container must meet Japan Airlines' carry-on baggage requirements.
Airline Seat Maps, Flights shopping and Flight information- Best Airplane Seats - SeatGuru › pets
Japan Airlines: Pet Policy

 

[investikater]

Yes, one pet per passenger is allowed in the cabin on JAL flights:


Pets must be in good health, not predisposed to cause harm to other animals, humans, or objects, and should not have an offensive odor. Pregnant pets will not be accepted. Only one pet per container and one container per passenger in the cabin and the container must meet Japan Airlines' carry-on baggage requirements.
Airline Seat Maps, Flights shopping and Flight information- Best Airplane Seats - SeatGuru › pets
Japan Airlines: Pet Policy

That means they could have been both in the cabin.

No way would I leave my pet behind in the cabin.
I don't care what the rules are, I'd be disobeying and chucking them down the slide too.

I'd wait until all the humans were off if I needed to to make sure we didn't impede any humans escape.

If crew physically barred me, even after all human passengers were safe, we would stay on and die together I guess.

 

[iamshadow21]

Work starts to remove JAL passenger jet debris from Haneda airport runway | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News

Work has begun at Tokyo's Haneda Airport to clear a runway of debris from the Japan Airlines passenger jet that collided with another plane there on Tuesday.

www3.nhk.or.jp

 

[iamshadow21]

Commentary: One of aviation’s biggest challenges played out on a Tokyo runway

Progress in air safety saved lives aboard Japan Airlines flight 516, but there is more to be learned, says Tim Culpan for Bloomberg Opinion.

www.channelnewsasia.com

Really interesting. While safety has improved in all other areas, the rate of 'runway incursions' has remained the same.

 

[iamshadow21]

Long, comprehensive, interesting.

The Japan Airlines plane collision was 20 minutes of horror, but the industry will learn invaluable lessons - ABC News

amp.abc.net.au

 

[PrairieWind]

The cat would be in the cargo also I think?

The only animals allowed actually in the passenger section are guide dogs and service animals I believe.

I don't think so. I was just on a flight, two young women had a dachshund in a small crate. After takeoff they took him out and the flight attendants didn't care. I honestly don't know what the rules are anymore or if anyone is following rules.

 

[IceIce9]

I don't think so. I was just on a flight, two young women had a dachshund in a small crate. After takeoff they took him out and the flight attendants didn't care. I honestly don't know what the rules are anymore or if anyone is following rules.

There are multiple pets on every flight I am on. Smaller pets in the cabin, and sometimes you can hear dogs barking in cargo. I would never fly a pet in cargo though, only in the cabin.

Cats, especially would be terrified in cargo. I’ve never known anyone to fly with a cat except in the passenger cabin.

 

[Charlot123]

I can think of one possibility....

The language of international aviation is English and flight crews and air traffic controllers are presumed to be fluent in English regarding aviation terms and commands.

But... I wonder how proficient in English Japanese Coast Guard pilots are? Likewise, what language do Japanese military air traffic controllers use?

If Japanese military and coast guard aviators frequently use Japanese, the small difference between say: "Cleared to pre take off holding area" and "Cleared for take off" might have been misunderstood by the Coast Guard crew.

As a side note, language confusion led to one aviation disaster when a Spanish speaking pilot was dangerously low on fuel and being delayed by ATC. The pilot repeatedly requested a "priority landing" in English. The ATC then cut him in line a few planes. But... the pilot should have used the term "emergency landing".

If I hear another person whose mother tongue is Slavic speaking English, I’d understand him better than an English person. Other than that, a person whose mother tongue is English or American English would be understood better than another foreigner speaking English. So theoretically, two Japanese people who speak English should understand each other well. Now, the Japanese language doesn’t have the letter “L”. This creates a problem for all Japanese speakers communicating in any language that has it. However I still think two Japanese people communicating in English should understand each other well. Even if we make mistakes in choosing an English word, our compatriots are apt to make similar mistakes. All of it applies to normal life, though. I think it was the disastrous earthquake situation which was the real culprit. I am not following on the pilot of the cargo plane, but I think we all feel a lot of compassion towards him. Same applies to the ATC.

 

[iamshadow21]

The training that saved JAL passengers was worth every yen

More than two weeks after JAL Flight 516 from New Chitose airport struck a Japan Coast Guard plane on Haneda airport Runway C and burst into flames, people are still talking about the "miracle" that enabled 379 passengers and crew members to evacuate without a single fatality. These...

japantoday.com

Compared with 71 hours in 2018, training hours were boosted to 260 hours in 2022.

"Under difficult business conditions, they cut expenditures but didn't reduce the training," Mizogami pointed out