Jason Young to get new trial

[otto]

I don't know otto... I would have to know what happened. I wouldn't just hang up, that is for sure.

That is a long ride not knowing anything about your wife or daughter IMO.

It is, but I wonder if he spoke to Meredith during that trip back home. If so, she would have filled him in on what she found at the house that afternoon. Additionally, if police wanted to notify him about what they found, they would have done that. I suspect that they were instead asking him a lot of questions rather than telling him anything. If that was the general tone of the conversation (questioning him), that would be a reason to end the call - especially in light of the fact that he had been warned not to talk to police.

 

[otto]

Gracie might not be the best witness... but doesn't that description sort of fit his personality?

Why would the customer/guy not pump five more dollars or take his change?
In a hurry? Mess up computations? Likes donating to local gas station? Odd indeed.

I would trust Gracie's identification of Jason if she had not stated that he was about her height, and absolutely if she had been able to pick him out of a photo line up. As it is, and given that she believes that her brains fell onto the street, I believe that it is possible that she wanted to please the investigators and therefore she told them that the man in the single photo she viewed was indeed the man at the gas pump. I see this as tainted evidence. Police certainly knew better than to present one photo for identification, but they chose to only show one photo. I believe that it's possible that they knew that she could not identify Jason, so they wanted to make it easy for themselves.

 

[MyBelle]

I think it's understandable that someone in Jason's position - first notified of his wife's murder, and then made fully aware of the fact that police strongly suspected him - would be scared to talk to police. It's possible that he would continue talking with police to try to present himself as innocent, but that can backfire. His lawyer told him not to talk with police, so from that point forth, his priority was probably to talk with his lawyer rather than police. Meredith told him to go to her house, so he knew that he would get all the details from her as soon as he arrived.

I agree he knew Meredith found her and could provide whatever details he felt he lacked. I'm not sure what more he needed to be told at that point. The fact his wife and baby son were dead and CY was safe might have been all he could handle at first.

 

[otto]

I agree he knew Meredith found her and could provide whatever details he felt he lacked. I'm not sure what more he needed to be told at that point. The fact his wife and baby son were dead and CY was safe might have been all he could handle at first.

Somehow Meredith managed to tell Jason to go to her house because his house was a crime scene. That most likely was over the phone, after she left his house (crime scene) and at the same time that he was on the road to Raleigh. During that phone call, after she told him what she saw in the bedroom, he probably asked her any questions he had ... if any (doubtful under the circumstances).

I don't see that Jason could gain any information from police, other than some sort of description of the process and timeline until the body was released - and that was not urgent. If police were rude (I believe this was reported at the time) and they were not able/willing to provide information, then he is within his rights to end the conversation ... keeping in mind that he'd just learned that his wife had been murdered.

 

[jova33]

I don't know otto... I would have to know what happened. I wouldn't just hang up, that is for sure.

That is a long ride not knowing anything about your wife or daughter IMO.

He found out from his friends what happened and knew his daughter was ok. He knew the police were focused on him, so he did not talk to them. As I've said a dozen times in this thread, "Everything you say can and will be used against you."

Gracie might not be the best witness... but doesn't that description sort of fit his personality?

Why would the customer/guy not pump five more dollars or take his change?
In a hurry? Mess up computations? Likes donating to local gas station? Odd indeed.

The gas station thing doesn't make sense at all. He would've been on empty or very near empty by the time he got there, and $15 wouldn't have filled his tank. Her description doesn't match. For a cold blooded, meticulously planned, down to the minute murder plot, it doesn't add up that he would blow his cover to harass a gas station attendant and risk being seen on camera. He didn't know the security cameras weren't working. And on top of all that, anyone who's pumped gas since 2001 knows that you pay before you pump.


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[MyBelle]

Somehow Meredith managed to tell Jason to go to her house because his house was a crime scene. That most likely was over the phone, after she left his house (crime scene) and at the same time that he was on the road to Raleigh. During that phone call, after she told him what she saw in the bedroom, he probably asked her any questions he had ... if any (doubtful under the circumstances).

I don't see that Jason could gain any information from police, other than some sort of description of the process and timeline until the body was released - and that was not urgent. If police were rude (I believe this was reported at the time) and they were not able/willing to provide information, then he is within his rights to end the conversation ... keeping in mind that he'd just learned that his wife had been murdered.

One of the strangest aspects of all this (to me) is that at his trial police insisted they wanted Jason to return to the crime scene because they needed to see what else may have been missing. This idea is so offensive because of the circumstances: a brutally murdered young mother and her baby yet Daddy needs to swing by the crime scene to see what else may have been stolen? A Waterford vase? A ring? That does not even make sense.

JMO

 

[Tia]

On July 25, 2007, a search warrant was issued for Michelle's SUV and this is why:

"Due to the situation with the child's bloodied footprints versus the clean condition of the child's feet when found; the confusion over the keys to the decedent's vehicle and how they came to be placed on the kitchen counter, and Meredith Fisher's keys being found on the hood of the decedent's vehicle, it is believed that the 2000 Lexus RX300 could have been used to transport the child from the scene. If this was the case, there may have been transference of blood from the scene to the vehicle using the child for conveyance"
_________________________________________________________________________________

That being said, its obvious that LE did NOT have "tunnel vision" and look at Jason and only Jason, right?

 

[Landonsmom02]

Not sure what point you are trying to make. The only common sense that matters is that of jurors and the Judge, which is what I said.

Why does any killer beat someone 'like that'? What exactly does 'like that' even mean? Ask Jason Williford that question. His victim was in bed and he brutally raped and beat her and left her for dead. Ask the killers of the Petit women that question. They brutally beat, raped and set their victims on fire in their beds, in their own home.

I think it is a huge myth that only a husband is capable of killing "like that."

JMO

BBM

This was the motive for them? MY murder was a rage beating. She wasn't sexually assaulted.

 

[dgfred]

How would his friends know what had happened at his home. Surely LE told MF and 'friends' not to discuss the evidence.

BTW... who were his friends?

If you are innocent... IMO you should offer all your help. Nothing can incriminate you if you didn't do anything. That is just me tho... the cops would/could not intimidate or lie to me and get me into trouble.

Everyone knows the spouse is the first suspect... that should not change helping IMO.

Was the man filling his tank/ topping it off with no room for more gas/ filling a spare can of fuel??? Still makes no sense with the 5 dollars not taken or used.

Someone used to using their card at the pump might not know to pay beforehand when using cash. I don't know.

I also think MF didn't tell JY much of anything (just that CY was OK) ... as I think she had suspicions already.

 

[dgfred]

I agree he knew Meredith found her and could provide whatever details he felt he lacked. I'm not sure what more he needed to be told at that point. The fact his wife and baby son were dead and CY was safe might have been all he could handle at first.

So you hang up on LE??? Come on. Was she shot? Was she stabbed? Did she fall down the steps? What do you think MF would have told him?

Don't you think MF had an inkling of suspicion already at that point? I would have.

 

[jova33]

BBM

This was the motive for them? MY murder was a rage beating. She wasn't sexually assaulted.

That's one thing we will never know. Maybe she was raped and told to get dressed afterwards. Maybe she didn't resist being raped out of fear, and that's why there's no outwardly signs of rape. Maybe the person came to rape her and she resisted from the get go and was beat to death.

Sent from your mom's smartphone

 

[jova33]

How would his friends know what had happened at his home. Surely LE told MF and 'friends' not to discuss the evidence.

BTW... who were his friends?

If you are innocent... IMO you should offer all your help. Nothing can incriminate you if you didn't do anything. That is just me tho... the cops would/could not intimidate or lie to me and get me into trouble.

Everyone knows the spouse is the first suspect... that should not change helping IMO.

Was the man filling his tank/ topping it off with no room for more gas/ filling a spare can of fuel??? Still makes no sense with the 5 dollars not taken or used.

Someone used to using their card at the pump might not know to pay beforehand when using cash. I don't know.

I also think MF didn't tell JY much of anything (just that CY was OK) ... as I think she had suspicions already.

Pull up the YouTube video, don't talk to police. It's been listed about 6 times in this thread, and I'm not pulling it up again. Police will twist your own words against you, lie, and misquote you. Anyone with the least bit of common sense knows never to talk to police. They won't tell you what happened unless you agree to talk to them without an attorney. And it's your fifth amendment right, and should not be used against you.

There was no evidence of a spare gas can. $15 wouldn't have topped off JY's vehicle. And if he made multiple stops, paying cash at each, he would've known it's pay before you pump.

Sent from your mom's smartphone

 

[otto]

BBM

This was the motive for them? MY murder was a rage beating. She wasn't sexually assaulted.

My understanding of "rage killing" is that it is a spontaneous, uncontrolled response to a situation or experience, and I don't understand how anyone could drive for several hours in an uncontrollable rage. If rage was a factor in this murder, I would categorize the rage as an underlying trait that is commonly seen in sociopathic behaviour. Has Jason been diagnosed as a sociopath?

"The sense of entitlement that comes with sociopathy is astonishing to those who abide by the social laws and conventions of our culture. Where does the entitlement come from? It stems from an underlying sense of rage. Sociopaths feel deeply angry and resentful underneath their often-charming exterior, and this rage fuels their sense that they have the right to act out in whichever way they happen to choose at the time. Everything is up for grabs with sociopaths and nothing is off limits."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...g-the-sociopath-cause-motivation-relationship

"Antisocial Personality Disorder--also referred to as sociopathy, psychopathy or dyssocial personality --generally involves, since childhood, a chronic and pathological anger, rage and resentment toward others. As I have suggested elsewhere (see previous post), antisocial personality disorder is, at its core, an anger disorder. Sociopathy centers around a deep-seated hostility toward family, culture, world, destiny, fate, God, reality, and indeed, toward life itself. But the dyssocial personality is highly proficient at masking this underlying and largely unconscious hostility and hatred. They are masterful actors, having honed and practiced their skills since early childhood. Like the narcissistic personality disorder, they have learned to conceal their deeply wounded true selves behind what Winnicott called a "false self." What the world sees in such badly damaged and dangerous individuals is an extremely rigid defensive persona, to employ Jung's pragmatic term, which originates from the dramatic masks worn by stage actors in the ancient Greek theatre. A carefully constructed and meticulously maintained false self, behind which the raging, wounded, depressed true self lies. For example, Drew Peterson has been reportedly described by former girlfriends and wives as extremely controlling, possessive and jealous, at times spying on them and reacting angrily and abusively to any actual or imagined abandonment, betrayal or rejection."

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...ting-disguised-personality-disorders-part-two

 

[Nymeria]

That's one thing we will never know. Maybe she was raped and told to get dressed afterwards. Maybe she didn't resist being raped out of fear, and that's why there's no outwardly signs of rape. Maybe the person came to rape her and she resisted from the get go and was beat to death.

Sent from your mom's smartphone

I know there was no rape kit done.
But if there were any signs of rape during autopsy I am sure they would have done one.
There has to be a pretty good reason they did not do one.
Autopsies (and people performing them) can tell when sexual intercourse has occurred with or without fluids present (semen).

Not trying to be a PITA but honestly, from reading here, so far-
Court system was incompetent/corrupt
LE was incompetent/corrupt
Witness' were incompetent
And now possibly ME was incompetent

That seems to be a lot of groups doing things wrong to make sure JY gets the blame for all of this, KWIM?

 

[dgfred]

Pull up the YouTube video, don't talk to police. It's been listed about 6 times in this thread, and I'm not pulling it up again. Police will twist your own words against you, lie, and misquote you. Anyone with the least bit of common sense knows never to talk to police. They won't tell you what happened unless you agree to talk to them without an attorney. And it's your fifth amendment right, and should not be used against you.

There was no evidence of a spare gas can. $15 wouldn't have topped off JY's vehicle. And if he made multiple stops, paying cash at each, he would've known it's pay before you pump.

Sent from your mom's smartphone

I don't care how many times you post it. I said IMO.

twisting your words, lying and misquoting does not make you guilty.

There is no evidence of alot of things the JY-innocent here are posting. That is what you do on a forum- discuss and speculate. You think he would have kept the spare gas cans if there were any??? Probably would have kept that dark shirt too.

Still doesn't explain away the witness saying it was him, acting like him, or explaining why the overpay.

The was a reason for it... we just don't know what.

 

[otto]

So you hang up on LE??? Come on. Was she shot? Was she stabbed? Did she fall down the steps? What do you think MF would have told him?

Don't you think MF had an inkling of suspicion already at that point? I would have.

My impression is that Meredith didn't immediately suspect Jason. She invited him to her home, gave him a place to sleep, and told police that he wasn't up for talking to them that evening (after he arrived in Raleigh). It seems that she was inclined to care for him and protect him, which is inconsistent with viewing him as a murderer. I would expect that she told him, over the phone prior to his arrival, what she saw when she arrived at the crime scene. Other than the fact that Michelle was dead and the child was okay, what more could anyone tell Jason?

I don't see that information as a reason that Jason should remain on the phone when investigators were more interested in getting information than providing information.

 

[dgfred]

Why would you (otto) not provide all the information you could? Whatever the question lines. What could he possibly say to incriminate himself at that point?
Hanging up is rude/suspicious/stupid IMO.

Seems from what I recall he was very sleepy on the return trip. Tired or depressed?

 

[dgfred]

Caring and protecting OR watching and observing?

 

[otto]

I know there was no rape kit done.
But if there were any signs of rape during autopsy I am sure they would have done one.
There has to be a pretty good reason they did not do one.
Autopsies (and people performing them) can tell when sexual intercourse has occurred with or without fluids present (semen).

Not trying to be a PITA but honestly, from reading here, so far-
Court system was incompetent/corrupt
LE was incompetent/corrupt
Witness' were incompetent
And now possibly ME was incompetent

That seems to be a lot of groups doing things wrong to make sure JY gets the blame for all of this, KWIM?

Investigators told the medical examiner that there was no rape and that a rape kit was not necessary. Other than the crime scene, where a woman was brutally murdered in her bedroom, they had no reason to assume that there was no rape. Was a rape kit was done later ... anyone know?

There is one witness where credibility is a serious issue, and that is with the woman that was shown one photo and asked if he was the man that she argued with at the gas station. She described that man as her height (a foot shorter than Jason). Police did not follow protocol and provide her with a photo line up. It is possible that because of her reduced mental capacity, they did not want to take a chance that she would be confused by photos of six men that looked similar. Not all witnesses are problematic, but this witness is.

Police made some mistakes, such as the failure to provide a photo line up for identification of a suspect. Police also failed to collect visible evidence from the crime scene such as the victim's tooth, and bloody sheets/socks. That leaves a question of what else they overlooked and why.

Police used tunnel vision and attempted to wrap evidence around the suspect. For example, when they learned that a door was propped open, they attempted to attribute this to Jason. However, they failed to recognize the fact that Jason did not need to prop open a door that would be unlocked at 6AM, as that was prior to the time that he could return from Raleigh to the hotel (if he committed the murder). The door was propped open, but there was no reason for Jason to prop open the door. Police allege that Jason left his hotel room unlocked, but it is very difficult to believe that this was not noticed when the receipt was slipped under the door and the newspaper was hung on the door handle. Police need the hotel door to be unlocked, but evidence does not support his belief.

The Judge screwed up, obviously, as the appeal was successful.

 

[dgfred]

Did the Judge screw up those things... or was it because of the civil case being brought in?