Jaycee's Girls

[stilettos]

what countries have outlawed vaccines? (i'm not being snarky, i'm interested in the subject of vaccines and did not know this)...thanks.

http://www.bellybelly.com.au/articles/baby/question-vaccinations

reasons not to vaccinate.

Scandinavian countries do not vaccinate. Japan today does not vaccinate before two and is considering changing the procedure to elective if at all. Afganistan does not vaccinate and there have been reports of parents violently protesting foreign medical workers vaccinating their children. Russian bloc countries rarely vaccinate....many Chinese children not in cities are not vaccinated. many of those countries have longevity studies that show longer life span than US studies. Less ADHD and autsim also.

 

[stilettos]

what countries have outlawed vaccines? (i'm not being snarky, i'm interested in the subject of vaccines and did not know this)...thanks.

Changed the wording on my post. Strongly advised against certain vaccines and vaccines are not mandatory and there is no mass vaccination progarm...Europe, Scandinavia. Mea Culpa.

 

[Pink Panther]

Changed the wording on my post. Strongly advised against certain vaccines and vaccines are not mandatory and there is no mass vaccination progarm...Europe, Scandinavia. Mea Culpa.

"Europe" is a continent - not a country. What a broad statement to make and incorrect to say the least!

MOO

 

[stilettos]

"Europe" is a continent - not a country. What a broad statement to make and incorrect to say the least!

MOO

Most sites that were googled indicate that in England, Germany and other European countries...vaccinations are elective not forced and not done to the masses.

 

[Pink Panther]

Most sites that were googled indicate that in England, Germany and other European countries...vaccinations are elective not forced and not done to the masses.

Googled by who - you? I'm in Europe. Sure they're elective...Everyting to do with your child's health is elective here (in Italy for sure) but you sign forms and take responsibility for the fact that you elect NOT to do something that is deemed medically appropriate. It's all TRACEABLE. There is paperwork behind EVERYTHING.

 

[stilettos]

Googled by who - you? I'm in Europe. Sure they're elective...Everyting to do with your child's health is elective here (in Italy for sure) but you sign forms and take responsibility for the fact that you elect NOT to do something that is deemed medically appropriate. It's all TRACEABLE. There is paperwork behind EVERYTHING.

Of course it is elective and there is paperwork. The fact remains that it is elective because obviously the government does not find it medically necessary to protect the public to have forced vaccination of it's citizens. Smart move.

 

[stilettos]

I have never been vaccinated due to faith beliefs and have entered Italy on 6 occasions. They have never kept me out to protect the public. Nor have they forced me to be vaccinated to enter the country. The point was forced vaccinations.

 

[thatswhatshesaid]

I'm as concerned about their lack of dental care and current and future problems that might arise from that as I am about the lack of vaccines. (Not going to weigh in on the vaccines, I already played that with the Hannah Montana topic). It's amazing that both girls and Jaycee have gone so long without what a lot of us consider basic, minimum medical care. I hope some excellent dentists and doctors are touched by them like we all are on here and take on their care and cases as charity or greatly reduced charges.

 

[Pink Panther]

I have never been vaccinated due to faith beliefs and have entered Italy on 6 occasions. They have never kept me out to protect the public. Nor have they forced me to be vaccinated to enter the country. The point was forced vaccinations.

Your point is a philosophical one about whether or not the government should be able to force parents to vaccinate their children. I live in a country where the state does NOT have that right but the parent's decision NOT to do so is documented. I don't believe that I have the right to dictate what you or your family should or should not do but given scientific research, if you go against what is believed to be "safe practice", I do believe that it is safe practice to document these decisions. This "documentation" is what is being discussed and the fact that neither Jaycee or her children ever showed up in any such documentation demonstrates that they were all "beneath the radar" and not accounted for.

If you want to get into philosophical discussions regarding to vaccinate or not to vaccinate I'm sure that there are many other forums out there ready, willing and able to discuss. I don't think that WS is one of them. Certainly not on this Jaycee thread.

 

[stilettos]

Your point is a philosophical one about whether or not the government should be able to force parents to vaccinate their children. I live in a country where the state does NOT have that right but the parent's decision NOT to do so is documented. I don't believe that I have the right to dictate what you or your family should or should not do but given scientific research, if you go against what is believed to be "safe practice", I do believe that it is safe practice to document these decisions. This "documentation" is what is being discussed and the fact that neither Jaycee or her children ever showed up in any such documentation demonstrates that they were all "beneath the radar" and not accounted for.

If you want to get into philosophical discussions regarding to vaccinate or not to vaccinate I'm sure that there are many other forums out there ready, willing and able to discuss. I don't think that WS is one of them. Certainly not on this Jaycee thread.

OK....I thought the discussion was about the need for them to be vaccinated. My bad.

 

[stilettos]

Pink Panther - these were the posts that caught my interest and discussed vaccinations, period.

Quite honestly, I think that that's just FINE. Babies and young kids are given far, far too many vaccines nowadays. I am sure that even in living in that environment, the girls have had their immune systems strengthened by just being around all that filth! (Not that that's good . . . )

If most of the people around you are vaccinated, that helps in keeping diseases away. These girls aren't living in the third world, they are living in California where most are vaccinated. This will lessen their chance of getting diseases.

Before the kids are given ANY vaccinations, I think that they should have full health work-ups to see what their condition is.

ITA on too many vaccines for babies. The schedule they have babies on is about 10 times more than what I had in the 70s as a child. It is quite ridiculous and I believe that such a volume of vaccinations in such little bodies and developing brains must have some negative effect.

However, I'm not talking about over-vaccinated babies. I'm talking about young ladies who likely have not had one vaccination. Exposure to filth does not mean exposure to all the dangerous diseases vaccinations are meant to protect against. While it is true that the majority being vaccinated protects the minority who are not, it is not a full protection. There have been numerous cases of people getting totally preventable and serious diseases from travel to thrid world countries, travle where they may come in contact with those who came from such countries and from immigrants who come here from countires where disease is rampant: http://www.redorbit.com/news/health/1530180/measles_spread_from_lack_of_vaccinations/

Polio is another disease that the girls could contract easily, despite exposure to "filth". Such exposure may give them a similar immunity as others to things like colds, flu, bacterial infections, etc. But not to measles, mumps, diptheria, rubella, polio, etc., diseases that killed billions of children and adults in the past.

As my dad used to say, "Ni tanto ni tan poco" which loosely translated mans everything in moderation. While I agree that the current U.S. vaccination schedule is dangerous for babies, I think having no vaccinations at all, is even more dangerous. California is a mecca for immigrants and international travelers. If not vaccinated, these kids are like the Native Americans were when confronted with scores of Europeans who brought diseases never seen before on our shores, like smallpox. The Europeans had immunity because they had been exposed. The Native Americans had none and entire civilizations were essentially wiped out.

Anyhow, the vaccination issue is just one of a slew of issues these girls must now face due to neglect and abuse at the hands of garrido and his "lovely" wife. I wish them all the best and I believe with the help of their family, friends and community, they can have a great future.

I am comfortable with absolutely no vaccines. Many countries that have made no effort to vaccinate have much longer life spans that we in the US do.

 

[Pink Panther]

I'm as concerned about their lack of dental care and current and future problems that might arise from that as I am about the lack of vaccines. (Not going to weigh in on the vaccines, I already played that with the Hannah Montana topic). It's amazing that both girls and Jaycee have gone so long without what a lot of us consider basic, minimum medical care. I hope some excellent dentists and doctors are touched by them like we all are on here and take on their care and cases as charity or greatly reduced charges.

You're worried about dental care? I'm sorry but these children are a result of a kidnapping and rape and you're worried about dental care? I'm worried about their mental health and their ability to be reabilitated to live a NORMAL life in the real world (with fillings and all). Have I missed something here?

 

[stilettos]

These beautiful girls are victims of sick and twisted perversity. Some of that is the conditions they were kept in...lack of social contact and yes, lack of medical and dental care....the totality of their treatment is going to need to be all encompassing. There will be priorities.

 

[gitana1]

You're worried about dental care? I'm sorry but these children are a result of a kidnapping and rape and you're worried about dental care? I'm worried about their mental health and their ability to be reabilitated to live a NORMAL life in the real world (with fillings and all). Have I missed something here?

I actually think it's just one other concern she has. Like my original post about lack of medical care, vaccines. I think the first concern for all of us here is their mental state and ability to overcome what has been done to them. After that, we are tallying up all the other ways those creeps damaged these girls. When you begin to think about ALL of the repercussions of such isolation, it becomes a laundry list of criminality. It's such a rare situation that it's hard to imagine the full extent of what these little girls will have to deal with. I have a lot of hope for them, however. With the right support, I think they can make it.

 

[RJA00]

I'm as concerned about their lack of dental care and current and future problems that might arise from that as I am about the lack of vaccines. (Not going to weigh in on the vaccines, I already played that with the Hannah Montana topic). It's amazing that both girls and Jaycee have gone so long without what a lot of us consider basic, minimum medical care. I hope some excellent dentists and doctors are touched by them like we all are on here and take on their care and cases as charity or greatly reduced charges.

well, my husband grew up very poor,never seen a dentist until i made him go when he was 28, He has perfect teeth, The dentist was very impressed

now me, I went every 6 months and my teeth are falling apart

 

[zippit]

I'm not sure if this has been touched on before, but I'm interested in this comment by Tina Dugard.. (link)

She wouldn't say whether the two girls, as some media outlets have reported, believed Jaycee was their older sister.

"I have heard them call my sister 'Mom,' " Dugard said. " (They say) 'Where's Mom?'"

Tina Dugard's sister is Jaycee's mom, Terry Probyn, right?? So Jaycee's girls are now calling their grandmother, who they just met, "Mom."

It seems like that would be unlikely if they were already calling Jaycee "Mom."

Obviously Jaycee nurtured them, educated them, and "mothered" them, but if they were raised to believe that Jaycee was their older sister, I wonder if they will continue to live as sisters, and Terry will be "Mom" to all three. (Probably a good thing IMO)

 

[Leila]

I'm not sure if this has been touched on before, but I'm interested in this comment by Tina Dugard.. (link)



Tina Dugard's sister is Jaycee's mom, Terry Probyn, right?? So Jaycee's girls are now calling their grandmother, who they just met, "Mom."

It seems like that would be unlikely if they were already calling Jaycee "Mom."

Obviously Jaycee nurtured them, educated them, and "mothered" them, but if they were raised to believe that Jaycee was their older sister, I wonder if they will continue to live as sisters, and Terry will be "Mom" to all three. (Probably a good thing IMO)

I didn't catch that in the interview with Jaycee's Aunt Tina, but it does make sense.

According to an interview with Patricia Garrido, she thought Jaycee was her granddaughter from a relationship her son, Phillip, had with a woman, and later was led to believe that Jaycee's two girls were the result of another relationship Phillip had - all three being her granddaughters.

The two girls may have been encouraged to believe that Jaycee was an older sister.

We don't know much about Jaycee at this point. It's been stated that she's in good physical condition, and obviously to have survived 18 years of captivity and having two children under adverse conditions, she's got a strong will to survive. But emotionally, she may still be a young girl needing her mother's guidance. It may be a good thing that Jaycee's daughters are looking at their grandmother as their mom and protector, a source of comfort, at least at this time.

 

[thatswhatshesaid]

I actually think it's just one other concern she has. Like my original post about lack of medical care, vaccines. I think the first concern for all of us here is their mental state and ability to overcome what has been done to them. After that, we are tallying up all the other ways those creeps damaged these girls. When you begin to think about ALL of the repercussions of such isolation, it becomes a laundry list of criminality. It's such a rare situation that it's hard to imagine the full extent of what these little girls will have to deal with. I have a lot of hope for them, however. With the right support, I think they can make it.

Thanks for the post--you explained it perfectly. I didn't have time to stop by yesterday and am glad someone else gets it. :blowkiss:

 

[thatswhatshesaid]

You're worried about dental care? I'm sorry but these children are a result of a kidnapping and rape and you're worried about dental care? I'm worried about their mental health and their ability to be reabilitated to live a NORMAL life in the real world (with fillings and all). Have I missed something here?

Yeah, you missed the point of sharing concerns about the very unusual lack of *specific care* that was the thread's topic at the time the post was written. I wasn't aware outlining our entire thoughts on a thread's topic were required per post.

I brought up dental care because as the lucky mom of my awesome kids by the gift of adoption I've seen first hand the problems that can arise (not alwasy but can) with a lack of early basic dental care. And it ain't about fillings and cavities. It's about speech, headaches, chewing problems, and a host of other issues.

As I stated before, I hope the girls are assisted by professionals in many areas of medical, mental health and education fields. They deserve every second of it.

 

[MBK]

They played the video games at the hotel. Their favorite was Mario. That does not mean they had ever played video games before. It also doesn't mean that they when they arrived at the hotel they had a favorite video game.

Here's something of an answer to the video game question:

This is from the Radar photo essay, "Jaycee Lee Dugard's Backyard Hell", found HERE: http://www.radaronline.com/photos/image/19260/2009/09/jaycee-lee-dugards-backyard-hell

According to FBI profiler Clint Van Zandt:

The computer stick shows that Garrido and his wife Nancy allowed Jaycee and her two daughters to develop their brain, hand and eye co-ordination. They were allowing them some form of mental stimulation but it was "the carrot syndrome" where the veiled threat of their situation would have always been in place.

Perhaps playing video games . . .the flashing lights . . . put the girls in a trance-like state and made them more suggestible . . .

The rest of the photo is also heart-breaking . . . and fascinating, with the two Furbys.

I'd LOVE to know what that upside-down paper is all about. I can read the words ATT . . COLLEGE . . . STUD . . So, something about college students' attitudes . . towards . . . ?? A psychology study? If anyone has any ideas about this, please comment!!!