JLM: Psych Thread - Professional and Non-Professional Opinions/Theories

[ksj3]

Hmm, it's telling me I need to subscribe (?)

http://www.charlottesville.org/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=25577

This may be of interest and doesn't require subscription. "A Study of Deteriorating Conditions on the Downtown Mall with Recommended Solutions" written no earlier than 2012 (I can't find an actual date in the document.)

I can attest, the conditions were getting really bad down there (as some of the pictures in the document show), but they have turned around 180 degrees in the last few years. There is still crime, no doubt (look up firefight and knock-out game with Charlottesville Downtown Mall and you'll see a few relatively recent incidents), but where there was a time I simply would not go down there late at night for any reason, conditions are such that I now feel comfortable doing so, on the mall itself - not in the surrounding streets.

 

[jamicat]

I found the link to the C'ville crime reports. It can expand to the state of virginia if you would like. This might help anyone interested in looking at a particular area of C'ville. This includes a specific area north 29 and enclosing the Mall area.

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/va/charlottesville/crime/

before I consider JLM's behavior, I want to know where is everyone else contributing to crime in the area. What is the norm that JLM's behavior could continue under a certain level of "status quo".

Is there someone else that JLM's is copying or collaborating with ?


Take a look at the link and let me know what you think.

Date rape has become a huge problem(probably has been actually) on college campus and areas. My understanding is that UVA has not had anything out there in terms of stats in that area, but I doubt very much they are exempt. It's a very underreported violation, and schools have often taken care of the complaints under the table without LE being notified. It's often been said that a coed is probably safer in any number of locales with strangers rather than her fellow students.

But death is a whole other thing. JM doesn't just rape. He apparently goes for the kill.

 

[MJPeony]

http://www.charlottesville.org/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=25577

This may be of interest and doesn't require subscription. "A Study of Deteriorating Conditions on the Downtown Mall with Recommended Solutions" written no earlier than 2012 (I can't find an actual date in the document.)

I can attest, the conditions were getting really bad down there (as some of the pictures in the document show), but they have turned around 180 degrees in the last few years. There is still crime, no doubt (look up firefight and knock-out game with Charlottesville Downtown Mall and you'll see a few relatively recent incidents), but where there was a time I simply would not go down there late at night for any reason, conditions are such that I now feel comfortable doing so, on the mall itself - not in the surrounding streets.

That's an interesting article to me. I moved to C-ville in the '80's as a young kid and always thought the Downtown Mall was really cool. But I did notice early on that it was a little bit rough around the edges so to speak. As I got older I of course noticed it more. The homeless, panhandlers, loud people, etc. And it was often a bit dirty. Many of the side streets were pretty run down at the time, but the Mall in general did seem to get better in the ensuing years. I didn't realize it had started to deteriorate again. But I guess it's always kind of had that vibe. Despite this, when I used to wait tables there on the Mall as a college student I stupidly walked many a time from the restaurant to my car parked off the side streets. I'm, needless to say, very thankful nothing ever crossed my path. Such as JM. Who was apparently roaming the town at that time.

 

[SolverGameChanger]

Date rape has become a huge problem(probably has been actually) on college campus and areas. My understanding is that UVA has not had anything out there in terms of stats in that area, but I doubt very much they are exempt. It's a very underreported violation, and schools have often taken care of the complaints under the table without LE being notified. It's often been said that a coed is probably safer in any number of locales with strangers rather than her fellow students.

But death is a whole other thing. JM doesn't just rape. He apparently goes for the kill.

Given JLM's desire, did he learn from a group of friends that shared "how to's" with him in the date rape.

I see JLM progressing from "rape with intimate acquaintance" to "knock out punch" to "passivate to reduce resistance"

The choking may have started after he was caught on campus as was reported in the news about the 2005 Fairfax case.

Each time, with less resistance from any social influence, JLM may have progressed in his methods to capture, avoid detection, and remove linking sources.

I believe it was usa news that consulted with "experts" that watched the videos and was quoted as saying his actions were that of an expert as he detected, approached, and engaged Hannah.

Can I state that from the campus to the down town mall area there were conditions that provided JLM opportunity.

Can I also state that he became invisible to the environment until he attempted to engage socially. He existed outside the social circle of the college or young professionals that frequented the area.

JLM consumed alcohol that may have encrouaged his behavior to go beyond the norm. It could have been an excuse for others that tried to reconcile the slightly aggressive behavior. Was alcohol a factor that reduced his ability to hold to boundries ?

 

[Paulap]

Given JLM's desire, did he learn from a group of friends that shared "how to's" with him in the date rape.

I see JLM progressing from "rape with intimate acquaintance" to "knock out punch" to "passivate to reduce resistance"

The choking may have started after he was caught on campus as was reported in the news about the 2005 Fairfax case.

Each time, with less resistance from any social influence, JLM may have progressed in his methods to capture, avoid detection, and remove linking sources.

I believe it was usa news that consulted with "experts" that watched the videos and was quoted as saying his actions were that of an expert as he detected, approached, and engaged Hannah.

Can I state that from the campus to the down town mall area there were conditions that provided JLM opportunity.

Can I also state that he became invisible to the environment until he attempted to engage socially. He existed outside the social circle of the college or young professionals that frequented the area.

JLM consumed alcohol that may have encrouaged his behavior to go beyond the norm. It could have been an excuse for others that tried to reconcile the slightly aggressive behavior. Was alcohol a factor that reduced his ability to hold to boundries ?

imo, he was surrounded by friends who more easily got girlfriends while he didn't
plus, imo, there was probably a significant amount of drug use that lowerd inhibitions

 

[SolverGameChanger]

Date rape has become a huge problem(probably has been actually) on college campus and areas. My understanding is that UVA has not had anything out there in terms of stats in that area, but I doubt very much they are exempt. ... But death is a whole other thing. JM doesn't just rape. He apparently goes for the kill.

To follow up on my previous question about current crime rate for C'ville.

approx. 5% violent crime/yr , 2 murders, 18 rapes, 51 robberies, 131 assaults annually.

it also list 1/210 individuals or approx. 4.9% chance of being a victim in C'ville. There are approx 11% of the cities in the US with a higher crime rate.

JLM was clearly part of the numbers but it also means that he was not alone in the crime's of C'ville. IF the numbers go down, it will more likely be due to improved safety measures that the businesses will strongly support.

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/va/...esville/crime/

I clicked on the link within the websleuths posting and it still opened up. This is a real estate link posting property values and crime statistics. I do not expect a registration is required to the public. Try again and watch for opportunities to close windows or over ride the pop up by clicking on the map etc. Here is the link again.


http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/va/...esville/crime/

 

[SolverGameChanger]

The link does have general data about c'ville. A subscription is requested for specific neighborhood data. Sorry about that. This still means there is data per neighborhood published somewhere by the gov and it should be available to the public.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Charlottesville-Virginia.html

Here is another link to crime data from 2000 to 2012. Interestingly, the rape incidents increase from 17/yr in 2000 to 25/yr in 2001 with a range from 27 to 35/yr from 2004 to 2011.

Is it possible the JLM is contributing to the numbers reported per yr between 2000 to 2012 ?

 

[MJPeony]

Given JLM's desire, did he learn from a group of friends that shared "how to's" with him in the date rape.

I see JLM progressing from "rape with intimate acquaintance" to "knock out punch" to "passivate to reduce resistance"

The choking may have started after he was caught on campus as was reported in the news about the 2005 Fairfax case.

Each time, with less resistance from any social influence, JLM may have progressed in his methods to capture, avoid detection, and remove linking sources.

I believe it was usa news that consulted with "experts" that watched the videos and was quoted as saying his actions were that of an expert as he detected, approached, and engaged Hannah.

Can I state that from the campus to the down town mall area there were conditions that provided JLM opportunity.

Can I also state that he became invisible to the environment until he attempted to engage socially. He existed outside the social circle of the college or young professionals that frequented the area.

JLM consumed alcohol that may have encrouaged his behavior to go beyond the norm. It could have been an excuse for others that tried to reconcile the slightly aggressive behavior. Was alcohol a factor that reduced his ability to hold to boundries ?

I agree with a lot of your thoughts here. However, there is nothing to make me think he was influenced by anyone in the manner you mention (friends, mentors, whathaveyou). My impression of/theory of JM has always been that he had issues with female rejection and issues with aggression, and those two things very unfortunately crossed at some point (I believe in college), and sent him choosing his destructive path of life. I think it was all him. No one who would have shown him any ropes or given him any ideas. In fact, he seems like the "expert" himself, having grown into his role over time. Ugh.

I also don't think there is much reason for me to believe alcohol is a catalyst for him. While I think it's widely accepted that JM had been drinking significantly the night HG went missing, when I look at the Fairfax situation and also MH- I don't see any indication inebriation would have been involved. I guess JM could have been drinking and then just goes out into Jermantown to blitz-attack, but that one doesn't seem like a "prowling" situation to me, where he has been drinking and eyeing women, etc. MOO.

Also, with MH, I really do believe she thought he was a taxi driver and wanted him to just give her a ride. I personally don't think JM was drinking and then driving around in his taxi. Short of a dependency/alcoholic situation going on (which is possible I guess), I don't see alcohol being a consistent catalyst. Maybe on the night he ran into HG, but the other 2 cases we know he's connected to seem different in that regard. JMO.

 

[AnnaGrace]

imo, he was surrounded by friends who more easily got girlfriends while he didn't
plus, imo, there was probably a significant amount of drug use that lowerd inhibitions

I do think it seems he had deep insecurity issues. Through the years he probably saw his friends gain the things that he wanted. This probably began at a very young age and escalated as he got older. Does anyone know if he dated in high school or had any steady girlfriends then? Did he have serious relationships later on, other than the one girlfriend we've heard about recently?

 

[MJPeony]

I do think it seems he had deep insecurity issues. Through the years he probably saw his friends gain the things that he wanted. This probably began at a very young age and escalated as he got older. Does anyone know if he dated in high school or had any steady girlfriends then? Did he have serious relationships later on, other than the one girlfriend we've heard about recently?

A poster, Spicer2000 (who went to high school with JM), said that JM asked a girl to prom and she turned him down. And Spicer said JM cried. My assumption from that is that JM did not have a girlfriend at least at the time of prom. Him crying has always stuck with me. I truly believe, and not just based on that one comment, that JM had major insecurities and never "got the girl", and that this resentment built up and contributed to his aggression towards women starting in college. No idea though if he had other girlfriends in high school. My personal opinion is that he did not, based on this story and others that he was kind of bumbling around the girls. Good question around any girlfriends in college...

 

[Enni]

A poster, Spicer2000 (who went to high school with JM), said that JM asked a girl to prom and she turned him down. And Spicer said JM cried. My assumption from that is that JM did not have a girlfriend at least at the time of prom. Him crying has always stuck with me. I truly believe, and not just based on that one comment, that JM had major insecurities and never "got the girl", and that this resentment built up and contributed to his aggression towards women starting in college. No idea though if he had other girlfriends in high school. My personal opinion is that he did not, based on this story and others that he was kind of bumbling around the girls. Good question around any girlfriends in college...

Several acquaintances / friends have commented publicly about how socially awkward JLM was around females in particular.

Typically, high school / college star athletes have their pick of the girls. That doesn't appear to have been true for Charlottesville's "Athlete of the Year, 1999."

Rejection may have led to JLM's building resentment/rage over something he believed himself to be automatically entitled to.

I wonder what his male role models were like, growing up?

 

[SolverGameChanger]

I agree with a lot of your thoughts here. However, there is nothing to make me think he was influenced by anyone in the manner you mention (friends, mentors, whathaveyou). My impression of/theory of JM has always been that he had issues with female rejection and issues with aggression, and those two things very unfortunately crossed at some point (I believe in college), and sent him choosing his destructive path of life. I think it was all him. No one who would have shown him any ropes or given him any ideas. In fact, he seems like the "expert" himself, having grown into his role over time. Ugh.

I also don't think there is much reason for me to believe alcohol is a catalyst for him. While I think it's widely accepted that JM had been drinking significantly the night HG went missing, when I look at the Fairfax situation and also MH- I don't see any indication inebriation would have been involved. I guess JM could have been drinking and then just goes out into Jermantown to blitz-attack, but that one doesn't seem like a "prowling" situation to me, where he has been drinking and eyeing women, etc. MOO.

Also, with MH, I really do believe she thought he was a taxi driver and wanted him to just give her a ride. I personally don't think JM was drinking and then driving around in his taxi. Short of a dependency/alcoholic situation going on (which is possible I guess), I don't see alcohol being a consistent catalyst. Maybe on the night he ran into HG, but the other 2 cases we know he's connected to seem different in that regard. JMO.

Yes, I see your point. I am not attempting to start with Alcohol or the Environment as the cause but that they are the mechanisms that lower the barrier of an existing disposition. I believe certain inherited traits, environment, opportunity contribute to the final outcome but ultimately JLM is responsible for his actions and the decisions he made along the way.

I see a young man with certain behaviors that were noted by family, friends, neighbors, school, etc. I believe those behavior traits are inherited but can be managed with education and forming as a child.

He excelled in football and wrestling ? He learned that persistence and controlled aggression was rewarded and enjoyed showing it because it was his unique gift. It was what enabled him to go to college more likely (IMO).


I believe JLM sees others behave in a certain way socially or brag in a certain way and he attempts the same but seems to get it wrong, go too far, then he drops out of the structured social circle he once had.

He becomes an independent man working and living outside a structured routine and his social circle is now of the adult world.

In the ref. links below it is interesting to note that the highest rate of violent crimes are from those between 20 to 30's. This is a time when children move outside the structured environments into independent living environments. In the US, our cultural attempts to prepare and expects the young adult to live independently from the family. They are separated from their families and expected to find their way even if they have deficiencies we believe it is best for them to learn.

Here is an interesting ref. to Sexual Victimization of College Women.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/nij/182369.pdf

This is an interesting ref Criminal Victimization in 2013

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv13.pdf

 

[MJPeony]

Several acquaintances / friends have commented publicly about how socially awkward JLM was around females in particular.

Typically, high school / college star athletes have their pick of the girls. That doesn't appear to have been true for Charlottesville's "Athlete of the Year, 1999."

Rejection may have led to JLM's building resentment/rage over something he believed himself to be automatically entitled to.

I wonder what his male role models were like, growing up?

I would think his wrestling and football coaches would be among some of the more influential. Which could mean JM saw reward in being physically aggressive. Clearly he mis-interpreted this rewarding behavior- and to the n'th degree- but just noting a possible connection of some sort.

 

[Enni]

[snip...] My impression of/theory of JM has always been that he had issues with female rejection and issues with aggression, and those two things very unfortunately crossed at some point (I believe in college), and sent him choosing his destructive path of life. I think it was all him. No one who would have shown him any ropes or given him any ideas. In fact, he seems like the "expert" himself, having grown into his role over time. Ugh.
[snip...]
Short of a dependency/alcoholic situation going on (which is possible I guess), I don't see alcohol being a consistent catalyst. [snip...] JMO.

BBM and edited for focus/length.

Agree 100% with your theory. Testosterone + rage + brute force is a very combustible mix.

W/r/t alcohol: it might be worth noting that his father has criminal record of having been intoxicated in public. Alcoholism may have a genetic component. Also, it's psychologically very difficult on kids.

My take is that he may not have had enough positive male role models to help him navigate the more emotionally difficult aspects of dating, dealing with rejection, how to handle girls. His behavior on 9/12-9/13 prior to mtg Hannah was highly inappropriate, with all the markings of someone who has dealt with so much rejection he no longer even hears it.

 

[AnnaGrace]

A poster, Spicer2000 (who went to high school with JM), said that JM asked a girl to prom and she turned him down. And Spicer said JM cried. My assumption from that is that JM did not have a girlfriend at least at the time of prom. Him crying has always stuck with me. I truly believe, and not just based on that one comment, that JM had major insecurities and never "got the girl", and that this resentment built up and contributed to his aggression towards women starting in college. No idea though if he had other girlfriends in high school. My personal opinion is that he did not, based on this story and others that he was kind of bumbling around the girls. Good question around any girlfriends in college...

I agree MJPeony. I do think his aggressiveness grew from not having what he felt entitled to. As time went on this intensified to anger and then rage.

 

[jrporter]

Well we also know, from reports and statement by friends, and girls he went to college with...that he seemed to need extra help in reading, and that his penmanship was childish. I think he likely did have some type of LD, perhaps dyslexia (also a neurological difference), or it could be some kind of processing disorder, or any number of things. My point is having an LD, not being a strong reader or writer....that could just as easily point to an explanation for his employment history too!



Also I KNOW having a learning disability can frustrate the HECK out of a child....even a child as young as 4! Kids quickly recognize when things do not come to them as quickly as their peers. They know there is something different about them, but they don't understand why. I have seen this being the cause for a whole lot of acting out behavior and aggressive behavior mostly in boys. (Preschool age boys too). Add in some family drama...or other stressors...like teachers labeling the kid as a trouble maker, kids pick up on that and shun him...leads to feeling further ostracized...you get one angry, frustrated, hurt, sad, and confused kid.

I'm not saying an LD made or led JLM to be a rapist and murder...just that perhaps it was the first major blow to his foundation.

The affects of LD may go far past academic issues and extend to social issues. I really believe that some/all of the following may apply to LJ:

The research indicates that individuals with learning disabilities:
•are more likely to choose socially unacceptable behaviors in social situations
•are less able to solve social problems
•are less likely to predict consequences for their social behavior
•are less likely to adjust to the characteristics of their listeners in discussions or conversations
•are less able to accomplish complex social interactions successfully (i.e.. persuasion, negotiation, resisting peer pressure, giving/accepting criticism, etc.)
•are more likely to be rejected or isolated by their classmates and peers
•are more often the objects of negative and non-supportive statements, criticisms, warnings and negative nonverbal reactions from teachers
•are less adaptable to new social situations
•are more likely to be judged negatively by adults after informal observation
•receive less affection from parents and siblings
•have less tolerance for frustration and failure
•use oral language that is less mature, meaningful or concise
•have difficulty interpreting or inferring the language of others

 

[ksj3]

I found the link to the C'ville crime reports. It can expand to the state of virginia if you would like. This might help anyone interested in looking at a particular area of C'ville. This includes a specific area north 29 and enclosing the Mall area.

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/va/charlottesville/crime/

before I consider JLM's behavior, I want to know where is everyone else contributing to crime in the area. What is the norm that JLM's behavior could continue under a certain level of "status quo".

Is there someone else that JLM's is copying or collaborating with ?


Take a look at the link and let me know what you think.

Here is something similar that doesn't require a subscription: http://spotcrime.com/va/charlottesville

 

[ksj3]

The link does have general data about c'ville. A subscription is requested for specific neighborhood data. Sorry about that. This still means there is data per neighborhood published somewhere by the gov and it should be available to the public.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Charlottesville-Virginia.html

Here is another link to crime data from 2000 to 2012. Interestingly, the rape incidents increase from 17/yr in 2000 to 25/yr in 2001 with a range from 27 to 35/yr from 2004 to 2011.

Is it possible the JLM is contributing to the numbers reported per yr between 2000 to 2012 ?

The Charlottesville Rapist was arrested in 2007, after raping for (at least) 10 years. So some of those 2004-2007 numbers are definitively his. He was linked to seven by DNA in those 10 years (1997-2007). Since then, none are as he's in jail. http://www.readthehook.com/86185/co...irst-known-attack-serial-rape-suspect-custody

I know more women report rape now than they did in the 1990's or 1980's or earlier, but I wouldn't expect a statistically significant jump in reporting to account for a jump from 17 to 35 (doubled) in 11 years. Virginia's population has increased in that time, too, but not doubled.

 

[ThinkHard]

I would think his wrestling and football coaches would be among some of the more influential. Which could mean JM saw reward in being physically aggressive. Clearly he mis-interpreted this rewarding behavior- and to the n'th degree- but just noting a possible connection of some sort.

I think he was close to his pastor...

 

[MJPeony]

I think he was close to his pastor...

Agreed. That is also my understanding.