John Andrew Ramsey

[eileenhawkeye]

Here are some things I feel pecuilar about JAR:

1.) The R's neighbor, Joe Barnhill, reported seeing John Andrew walk up to the R's house, on 12/25. Does anyone know if this sighting was when the R's had already gone to the Whites house? Barnhill later changed his statement to say that he might have been mistaken.

2.) There is no home video footage of Christmas morning. There are only two pictures. Was JAR in any of those pictures and videos that they had to be erased?

3.) One of the original people that John has stayed close to throughout the years was his pilot, Mike Archuletta. Did Mike give JAR the plane ride to and from Boulder?

4.) Why did John and Patsy say that they wouldn't answer any questions until the police cleared JAR and Melinda?

5.) JAR's suitcase with his blanket, book, and semen were found near JonBenet's body.

6.) It's been said that JonBenet was being molested but not on a regular basis. Since JAR was in Boulder but not always at home, he would of had irregular access to JBR. Didn't she go to the school nurse on Mondays? Did JAR make a stop at home during the weekend?

7.) Why did John lawyer up his family like his ex-wife and not Patsy's family? (I'm not positive about this; but I'm pretty sure Lucinda got a lawyer and Nedra didn't)

8.) LE cleared JAR because of a picture of him at an ATM. Wouldn't that picture be really grainy? If he spent Christmas with his mom's family, then why aren't there any pictures of him there? Also, didn't he go to the movies too on 12/25? So he went to his mom's house and the movies on 12/25? Or was his mom's house on 12/24?

Now, I know that someone will say that Patsy would have never covered up for JAR but John was the one with money and connections. He could have told Patsy that she keeps her mouth shut about his son, or he'll throw her under the bus.

 

[DeeDee249]

Here are some things I feel pecuilar about JAR:

1.) The R's neighbor, Joe Barnhill, reported seeing John Andrew walk up to the R's house, on 12/25. Does anyone know if this sighting was when the R's had already gone to the Whites house? Barnhill later changed his statement to say that he might have been mistaken.

2.) There is no home video footage of Christmas morning. There are only two pictures. Was JAR in any of those pictures and videos that they had to be erased?

3.) One of the original people that John has stayed close to throughout the years was his pilot, Mike Archuletta. Did Mike give JAR the plane ride to and from Boulder?

4.) Why did John and Patsy say that they wouldn't answer any questions until the police cleared JAR and Melinda?

5.) JAR's suitcase with his blanket, book, and semen were found near JonBenet's body.

6.) It's been said that JonBenet was being molested but not on a regular basis. Since JAR was in Boulder but not always at home, he would of had irregular access to JBR. Didn't she go to the school nurse on Mondays? Did JAR make a stop at home during the weekend?

7.) Why did John lawyer up his family like his ex-wife and not Patsy's family? (I'm not positive about this; but I'm pretty sure Lucinda got a lawyer and Nedra didn't)

8.) LE cleared JAR because of a picture of him at an ATM. Wouldn't that picture be really grainy? If he spent Christmas with his mom's family, then why aren't there any pictures of him there? Also, didn't he go to the movies too on 12/25? So he went to his mom's house and the movies on 12/25? Or was his mom's house on 12/24?

Now, I know that someone will say that Patsy would have never covered up for JAR but John was the one with money and connections. He could have told Patsy that she keeps her mouth shut about his son, or he'll throw her under the bus.

All excellent points.
1. Joe Barnhill did change his story, but I bet he was pressured to do so.
2. The Rs ALWAYS took lots of pictures and videos on Christmas- except THAT one. Many people think it is because JAR does appear in them. This is also one of the reasons why I believe JR got lawyers for both JAR and his mother. NO need for lawyers if JAR was really in Georgia with his mother. EVERY reason need a lawyer if he was really in Boulder. They main reason is that a lawyer can prevent prosecutors from asking questions. Or asking for photo evidence he was with his mother that day.
3. Private planes don't have to file flight plans, so we will never know. Any testimony he might have has not been made public.
4. Interesting bargaining point. I don't know of any one else who'd be allowed that kind of thing. The only reason is because they wanted to be sure JAR could not be questioned and they wanted to be sure Melinda could not be asked about the whereabouts of JAR that day.
5. It was JAR's blanket and semen in his suitcase, but the book was a children's book. Was it his or did it belong to one of his younger siblings? If so, it was an odd thing to be carried back and forth to a college campus. The Rs claimed that suitcase was one that was used by JAR to go back and forth.
6. Apparently, there WERE a lot of Monday visits to the school nurse. JAR went to school just minutes away. He had PLENTY of access to JB. If not daily, then certainly whenever he came home.
7. I don't recall if Nedra or her husband had lawyers. Anyone know?
8. The ATM pictures WERE grainy- and the guy in the photo had on a baseball cap that obscured his face. It really could have been anyone. It could have been someone he asked to go on his behalf AFTER the crime while he was still in Boulder and knew he needed a alibi. He could have called a friend in Georgia. There may have been an extra card he kept there, not too unusual if you spend a lot of time going back and forth between the two places- this way you don't have to worry about forgetting it.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Excellent points all the way around DeeDee and eileen. As for Patsy being unwilling to cover for JAR, she would have if she was guilty of inflicting the head wound by mistake (meaning the bash was meant for JAR).

 

[joeskidbeck]

Does anyone else think Mike Archuletta may have gotten a really big bonus that year? Unless I'm mistaken, Mike's wife has publically admitted that all the "extra" help he provided the Ramseys cost them their marriage.

 

[DeeDee249]

Interesting point about the "Monday morning school nurse visits". The school refused to provide JB's records (including the visits to the nurse) and the DA refused a warrant for them.
When, in the case of one of their young students being murdered, has a school ever refused to provide the police with ANY and ALL records of the child, especially if it might help find the "real killer".

Oh.....I forgot. They must have refused BECAUSE it might help find the "real killer".

One of the signs of child abuse is when the child exhibits symptoms of genital discomfort on a MONDAY. True.

 

[Peepers]

Didnt they find some proof that JAR and his girlfriend were at the Mpls airport during this time?

 

[qtc]

The school refused to provide JB's records (including the visits to the nurse) and the DA refused a warrant for them. QUOTE]



Oh My. What was the DA's reason for not getting a warrant?
Is this something that could be available; could they get a warrant
for the info this long after the fact?

 

[eileenhawkeye]

When Burke was going to be reinterviewd, CNN had an article about it and you could comment. This was one of the comments:

My dad's best friend was a neighbor of the Ramseys and a friend of Patsy's. He's always believed the most likely suspect was John Ramsey's older son from a previous marriage (and that John Ramsey's wealth was the motive for what was meant to be a kidnapping/ransom attempt, which went wrong). It would explain how intruders could know the layout of the house even though the oldest son was in another state at the time. I don't really know anything about the oldest son, and he may be a perfectly decent person, but I think the scenario sounds plausible

I'm skeptical of people who claim to have a close/intimate connection to this case due to how notorious it is. However, the Ramseys did have neighbors so there are people out there who were friends with their neighbors so this post could be legitimate. Now if it's true, then why did the neighbor suspect JAR? If he or she was a friend of Patsy's, then they had probably met JAR on some occasions. Was there something they didn't like about him? Could this neighbor be Barnhill? It says, "Friend of Patsy's" though so that makes me think it's a woman. Maybe his wife? Was he a widower when JBR was murdered?

Here's another tidbit about JAR, that I found on another forum, which was found on another forum so who knows how legitimate it is but I'll post it anyway:

"Classmates of JAR have stated for the record that he talked about JonBenet all the time... How beautiful she was and how much he loved her. He was fixated on her...Probably just a proud older brother talking but some of classmates thought is was strange to say the least."

Here's some other info about JAR:

Gosage and I interviewed twenty-year-old John Andrew Ramsey. He was a lanky young man with dark eyes and short dark hair, who wore a checkered shirt, a winter jacket, and an attitude. When the blood tech moved close with her needle, the former Eagle Scout, who was now a third-semester sophomore at the University of Colorado, whispered, "I may pass out."

Although he also claimed to have been in Atlanta when the crime occurred, we had to check him out because of the neighbor who had reported seeing him on Christmas Day. We had to determine who was right.

We asked him to put his thoughts on paper, and he wrote a document that brimmed with feelings about his little stepsister being murdered, giving us a glimpse into his world. He caught our attention immediately by writing, "I think it was someone that had intimate knowledge of my family and how we lived day to day. Why would they leave the ransom note on the back staircase instead of the front?" Good question, I thought. How would a stranger know which stairway Patsy Ramsey would come down that morning?

He ridiculed the idea of a small foreign faction being involved, was certain the crime had nothing to do with his father's company, and questioned why a ransom note was left at all. "Why did they ask for $118,000? I could pay that amount," he wrote. Someone was envious of their wealth and thought of the Ramseys as "rich bastards," he said.

John Andrew told us that whoever did this was probably uneducated, were amateurs at kidnapping, and had seen the movie Ransom, in which the family of Mel Gibson's character was a "spitting image" of his own. He did not believe anyone came in through the broken basement window. They had a key, he surmised.

In one comment, he described his stepmother as "flashy" and guessed that the killer might be someone close to her.

John Andrew also buttressed the comments of the housekeeper's husband, Mervin Pugh, and former nanny Suzanne Savage about the house being difficult to navigate. "You don't know your way around real easy right off the bat. . . . You have to open lots of doors. It has lots of ups and downs," and the basement entrance was hard to find. It was becoming very clear to the police just how difficult it would have been for any stranger to get to that distant basement storage room."

And here's an email from JAR:

"After M, S and I arrived in Denver we proceded to the house. As soon as we arrived J and P were in the street, they had just found JB. It was a bad scene. Very quickly S and I got in John Fernies van with my dad. Melinda went with Patsy in I think Fleets car. NO ONE WAS THINKING. We just got in the nearest car and drove. NO THOUGHTS. That is when my dad told us he found JB and she was dead. NO THOUGHTS. We prayed and drove to the Fernies. I would imagine that is when Stewart got his information, I was probably sitting right there but I don't remember.

"...my parents were destroyed. They were not thinking about their own butt, or covering up any crimes. They were just not plainly thinking straight. No one was, or could think."

"I will never be able to explain the feelings and thoughts of that day. From the moment of the phone call with my dad until we arrived in Denver was maddening. We had to get on a plane, that was first. I was constantly scanning the crowd, for what I have no idea. By the time we were on the plane I had come to the realization that JB was dead. A couple of weeks earlier I had watched a Geraldo show about kidnappings, they had the parents on, none of the kids had survived. I knew the chances were not good, I just prayed that she was not in any pain. I don't think you would call it an out of body experience b/c lots of my senses were heightened. I was scared, angry and nervous. However, other functions shut down. I was not rational, I was not thinking ahead, I was not thinking at all. It is survival instincts at their best. Survive in the moment and not worry about the future."

"My point is this. To build a case around the hours following the crime are ridiculus. Behavior can not be accounted for during these times. It would seem much more logical to seek answers in the other fifty plus years of ones life, rather than the moments of one's darkests period."

"I can't answer for Stewart, I can't answer for my Dad. I can only provide some insight to the psyche during such a period of high stress."

 

[DeeDee249]

The school refused to provide JB's records (including the visits to the nurse) and the DA refused a warrant for them. QUOTE]



Oh My. What was the DA's reason for not getting a warrant?
Is this something that could be available; could they get a warrant
for the info this long after the fact?

The DA never gave legitimate reasons. He used to tell police they should wait for the Rs to "volunteer" any info. Police are powerless to get the information without a court order (warrant) if the parents don't release it voluntarily. Not too hard to figure out why they didn't.
I doubt the actual school would still have these nurse's records all these years later, but I am sure they exist somewhere, part of the Rs lawyer's stash, etc. But the school wasn't required to keep them after she died.

 

[DeeDee249]

For what it's worth: My daughter was a senior in college in 1996. She was not in Boulder, but her boyfriend was a student at Boulder. She visited him that February, just 2 months after the murder. The case was still white hot there in Boulder. I wasn't into it then, but when my daughter got home she said that her boyfriend told her that many kids at the university (including him)- when the case hit the news the first person they thought of as far as who had done it was JAR. They thought he was "weird" and obsessed with his 6-year old half-sister. Not one of them hesitated or had second thoughts about who had done this.

While many might believe that JAR may have friends, enemies or people who knew of him and his money (and I am SURE he bragged about that) and that one of them may have done this- it still doesn't explain the lack of intruder DNA anywhere else in the house or crime scene (apart from her clothing, which REAL experts have said that may not actually rule out the Rs at all if the sample is a mixed sample). It also doesn't explain the RN being in Patsy's handwriting or knowing the bonus amount. And it doesn't explain the family covering for a person like this, friend of JAR or not.

 

[cynic]

Some excerpts from IRMI and PMPT

In the following days, we documented the whereabouts of John Andrew Ramsey on the night his little stepsister was killed. Although the family had been of minimal help, Gosage and I backtracked through interviews, records, friends, and associates to put him officially in the Atlanta-Marietta area, except for about six hours when he was presumably asleep at his mother’s home. Unless there was a far-reaching conspiracy or a Harrier jet in the backyard, he didn’t do it.

also

On the last day of the month, I wrote in an exhaustive report that “one can conclude John Andrew Ramsey’s whereabouts have been reasonably accounted for.” A few days later the city spokesperson announced that both John Andrew and his sister Melinda had been cleared of suspicion.
JonBenet: Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation


Detective Kim Stewart interviewed Melinda for almost two and a half hours. Detectives Ron Gosage and Steve Thomas questioned her brother from 6:00 to 8:00 P.M.
Twenty-year-old John Andrew was obviously upset, but he was composed enough to explain that he was a student at CU and had been in Boulder until December 19. Then he had gone to Atlanta to spend the first part of his vacation with his mother, Lucinda Johnson, and his sister and friends. Then the plan was to continue his vacation with his sister, father, stepmother, and their children. He said his father had arranged to meet him and his sister in Minneapolis at about 10:30 A.M. on December 26, and from there they would all continue to the house in Charlevoix, Michigan.
In the months that followed, the police would confirm that John Andrew, his mother, and her friend Harry Smiles had attended the Peachtree Presbyterian Church in Atlanta on Christmas Eve and that John Andrew had returned to his mother’s home at 1:00 A.M.
Melinda, who worked at a hospital in Marietta, Georgia, finished her shift at about 7:00 A.M. on Christmas Day. That afternoon, John Andrew, Harry Smiles, Melinda, and her boyfriend, Stewart Long, exchanged gifts at Lucinda’s home in Marietta. In the afternoon they all went across the street to a neighbor’s for dinner.
Melinda and Stewart Long left the dinner party about 7:00 P.M., and Melinda started to pack for an early flight the next day. At 9:00 they went to visit Guy Long, Stewart’s uncle, and after visiting other friends were home by midnight.
At about 8:30 P.M., John Andrew went to his friend Brad Millard’s home in Marietta to play video games. After an hour, they left to catch a 10:30 show at the Town and Country Movie Theaters in Marietta with another friend, Chris Stanley.
John Andrew said that after the movie he went back to Brad Millard’s house to get his car and arrived back at his mother’s house at 1:00 A.M. The next morning he left his mother’s house with Melinda, who had come there to pick him up. Together they boarded a flight to Minneapolis at 8:36 A.M. local time. That was forty-four minutes after Patsy called 911 to report that JonBenét was missing.
Could John Andrew, with one or more of the friends who provided his and his sister’s alibis, have left Marietta, Georgia, flown to Boulder, Colorado, and returned in time to be seen by his sister’s boyfriend, Stewart Long, at about 6:15 A.M. when John Andrew and Melinda left for the airport?
The police figured that John Andrew had a minimum of four and a half hours he could not account for—longer if he didn’t stay to see the entire movie. It would have been longer still if he never went to the theater but went to an airport instead. That scenario would give John Andrew almost nine hours to get from Marietta to Boulder and back. Until all airline and private plane flights were checked, John Andrew Ramsey would remain a suspect.

and

For seven weeks the police had been interviewing the Ramseys’ family, friends, and business associates without turning up any real suspects. They had finished their background checks on John Andrew and Melinda and had verified commercial airline schedules and private plane flight plans and found no record that either of them had traveled the night of December 25. Their alibis were solid. Besides the Ramseys, the only people apparently still under investigation were “Santa” Bill McReynolds and his wife, Janet; housekeeper Linda Hoffmann-Pugh; part-time reporter Chris Wolf; Bud Henderson, who owed $18,000 to Access Graphics; company executive Gary Merriman; and the Ramseys’ friends Fleet and Priscilla White.

and

Two and a half months after the Boulder police began investigating John Andrew and Melinda Ramsey, they received the final pieces of evidence that cleared Ramsey’s older children of any involvement in JonBenét’s murder. Bryan Morgan wrote to Detective Thomas on March 4 stating that John Andrew had made an ATM transaction at the QT Store on Roswell Road, in Marietta, Georgia, at 9:00 P.M. on December 25. His friend Brad Millard had been present. To support his claim, Morgan enclosed the ATM transaction slip. He also repeated that Melinda had awakened her brother in the early morning hours of December 26, in time for him to stop at a store and still make an 8:30 A.M. flight to Minneapolis. It was impossible for John Andrew to have flown from Atlanta to Boulder, whether by commercial or private aircraft, commit the murder, and return in time to be awakened by his sister in the presence of Brad Millard, who had stayed overnight in John Andrew’s room.
Perfect Murder, Perfect Town

 

[eileenhawkeye]

For what it's worth: My daughter was a senior in college in 1996. She was not in Boulder, but her boyfriend was a student at Boulder. She visited him that February, just 2 months after the murder. The case was still white hot there in Boulder. I wasn't into it then, but when my daughter got home she said that her boyfriend told her that many kids at the university (including him)- when the case hit the news the first person they thought of as far as who had done it was JAR. They thought he was "weird" and obsessed with his 6-year old half-sister. Not one of them hesitated or had second thoughts about who had done this.

That is very interesting about JAR. Were they more specific about how exactly JAR was acting obsessive towards JonBenet?

Regarding JonBenet's school records, I wouldn't be surprised if her records are in some huge filing cabinet storage room somewhere. She wasn't in school that long ago; we're only talking 15 years not 80 years. But I also wouldn't be surprised if everyone else from the 1996-1997 school years records were available, but JBR's had "mysteriously" disappeared.

(In Massachusetts, schools have to keep records for 60 years after a student graduates or leaves the school system. I'm not sure about Colorado).

This might be a dumb question what would records have been computerized in 1996-97? Or was that much later?

 

[UKGuy]

That is very interesting about JAR. Were they more specific about how exactly JAR was acting obsessive towards JonBenet?

Regarding JonBenet's school records, I wouldn't be surprised if her records are in some huge filing cabinet storage room somewhere. She wasn't in school that long ago; we're only talking 15 years not 80 years. But I also wouldn't be surprised if everyone else from the 1996-1997 school years records were available, but JBR's had "mysteriously" disappeared.

(In Massachusetts, schools have to keep records for 60 years after a student graduates or leaves the school system. I'm not sure about Colorado).

This might be a dumb question what would records have been computerized in 1996-97? Or was that much later?

eileenhawkeye,

In the context of JAR's obsession. Can I mention his stuff being dumped into the basement and the collection of photographs discovered in the basement whose subject was JonBenet.

Could there be a link? I reckon there might be.


.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Okay, I found a website from the government of Colorado that looks to pertain to student records.

It says:

This retention schedule will not provide legal authority or authorization for destruction of school records by any school district until it is approved for use for that district by the Colorado State Archives. Additionally, no record shall be destroyed if it is pertinent to any current or pending litigation.

School districts using this record retention schedule will be required to report yearly record destruction statistics to our office. As long as yearly reporting is accomplished, the approval will remain in effect or until rescinded by the school district or State Archivist.

http://www.colorado.gov/dpa/doit/archives/rm/schools/

 

[DeeDee249]

So there you have it. This is an UNsolved murder. No statute of limitations. The school has to hold onto the records at least until the crime is solved.
But I wonder if they got "lost" over the years. Accidentally destroyed in a flood or pipe burst or something. SO many ways to get rid of a hot potato like that.

And interesting that in all these years, the school hasn't been forced to turn them over by ANY DA, including the new one.
The "new" DA is really the "old" one, after all, I guess.

 

[OneLove]

The above referenced email from JAR (post #8), is it known when that was written? It is pretty impressive, especially if it was written shortly after the "event" when he was only twenty years old. TIA

 

[eileenhawkeye]

The above referenced email from JAR (post #8), is it known when that was written? It is pretty impressive, especially if it was written shortly after the "event" when he was only twenty years old. TIA

From what I can find, it was written in 2001.

 

[OneLove]

From what I can find, it was written in 2001.

ok, so he had a few years to ponder on it, lol.

In the same email, he mentioned Stewart 'getting his information' when in the car with him, Fleet, and his dad outside the house just after JBR's body was found, and them driving to the Fernies house.

Do you know what "information" he was referencing?

Is there a place this email can be found where it can be read in context in its entirety? Thanks for posting it. I had not seen it before.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Everything I posted about JAR plus other tidbits can be found at the following link:

http://www.acandyrose.com/s-john-andrew-ramsey.htm

 

[SunnieRN]

Does anyone else think Mike Archuletta may have gotten a really big bonus that year? Unless I'm mistaken, Mike's wife has publically admitted that all the "extra" help he provided the Ramseys cost them their marriage.

The R's later gave Mike their plane. I have no idea if it was because they could no longer afford it, or if it was for services rendered.