Judge's Order re: OP's Mental Health Eval

[zwiebel]

Weskoppies. It looks quite nice, apart from the lack of a lawn. Not like an institution (from the outside) at all.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Pumza_Fihlani/status/468666212894126080/photo/1

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Meanwhile, I am dying of old age here! June 30 indeed.

Damn, I haven't enough time too. :snail: :snail: :snail: In October will be my next birthday and then it will be allmost critical ...!


Thank you all for your great posts!
I have problems with our WS program; it is only working very sluggish. If I'm logged in, then it's much more slowly than before.
No thanking you separat isn't very nice, but for the time I avoid to log in.

Do you have advices for me to help, then I will be thankful!

 

[PrimeSuspect]

As Otto (finding safe empty) from A Fish called Wanda says, "ok...ok...DISAPPOINTED!"

Quoted for relevance. :drumroll:

 

[jay-jay]

Weskoppies. It looks quite nice, apart from the lack of a lawn. Not like an institution (from the outside) at all.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Pumza_Fihlani/status/468666212894126080/photo/1

Well apparently it is on the site of some botanical gardens, so really quite pleasant all round by the looks of it! Weskoppies Psychiatric Hospital - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


:banghead:

 

[zwiebel]

Damn, I haven't enough time too. :snail: :snail: :snail: In October will be my next birthday and then it will be allmost critical ...!


Thank you all for your great posts!
I have problems with our WS program; it is only working very sluggish. If I'm logged in, then it's much more slowly than before.
No thanking you separat isn't very nice, but for the time I avoid to log in.

Do you have advices for me to help, then I will be thankful!

FromGermany,
If you check this forum:
Forum Finesse - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Or this thread:
WS Running Very Slow Today - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Someone may be able to give you advice.

 

[zwiebel]

Oldish interview with Wiliam Booth, on what mental observation means for Oscar.

http://www.news24.com/Live/SouthAfr...t-mental-observation-means-for-Oscar-20140514

 

[james83]

Disappointed he got outpatient.

IMHO His family looking smug.

IMHO He seems smug.

I am upset that he wasn't hauled away, now, but will "present himself" on May 26th.

Special treatment. I'm sick of it.

I know there is a long wait for beds BUT revoke bail today and make him wait - 2 weeks, 2 months, 2 years, like everyone else.

Didn't like M'lady having a big smile at the end.

I agree Colonel it certainly is once again special treatment, but as long as the special treatment stops at the moment Masipa hands down her sentence all that went before will be forgiven in my eye's.

 

[james83]

And don't anybody worry about him getting off due to being unaware of his action's blah blah blah because Nel's already got that covered

I did not fire a warning shot in the shower because it could ricochet and possibly hit me.

:winkkiss::winkkiss::winkkiss:

 

[wb180]

Don't worry guys, I don't think this is a big loss at all.

I know some want OP lock up already but this inpatient thing isn't the actual sentence. The prize is in the verdict. I don't think the judge will let him off lightly at all but of course this is just my opinion.

 

[Fuskier]

Good morning/ afternoon/ evening Gbtaketwo

I just wanted to pick up on your point which contains something that bothers me slightly, especially as I have heard it several times from different sources.

Namely, that following the Assessment, an understanding will be gained of OP's mindset at the time of the shooting. I am afraid that is not going to be possible as any issues (if diagnosed,) could have developed in the last 15 months.

What it will actually do is assess whether he currently has any issues. Why is this hugely significant? Because whether he has or not, the defence team are snookered. They cannot claim this affected his behaviour on the night, because it is impossible to tell when the symptoms began and crucially, if they wanted to use it they would have had to carry out tests at the time for it to be credible. Claiming it this late in the day would be a 'third defence' and would clearly smack of desperation.

If he has no issues as described by Vorster, then a pretty poor defence to begin with just falls into complete & utter disarray.

It is another delay but I sense that what we are seeing here is the State ensuring all bases are covered in ensuring the trial is fair, and avenues for appeal being blocked.

Just my humble opinion

Thank you Hoosen_Fenger. Your point of view is a welcome contribution to the current state of play.

 

[jay-jay]

And don't anybody worry about him getting off due to being unaware of his action's blah blah blah because Nel's already got that covered

I did not fire a warning shot in the shower because it could ricochet and possibly hit me.

:winkkiss::winkkiss::winkkiss:

.. sincerely hope you are right .. I just keep thinking of Shane13's posts (where is he, btw?) and that this one might well 'run deep' as he kept saying ..

 

[james83]

These Psychiatrist's they've seen it all, seen every trick in the book attempted and they will not be fooled, unlike some people they will not hear Oscar crying wailing and howling and feel sympathy and change there opinion like some gullible fools did when Oscar was on the stand.

 

[wb180]

Good morning/ afternoon/ evening Gbtaketwo

I just wanted to pick up on your point which contains something that bothers me slightly, especially as I have heard it several times from different sources.

Namely, that following the Assessment, an understanding will be gained of OP's mindset at the time of the shooting. I am afraid that is not going to be possible as any issues (if diagnosed,) could have developed in the last 15 months.

What it will actually do is assess whether he currently has any issues. Why is this hugely significant? Because whether he has or not, the defence team are snookered. They cannot claim this affected his behaviour on the night, because it is impossible to tell when the symptoms began and crucially, if they wanted to use it they would have had to carry out tests at the time for it to be credible. Claiming it this late in the day would be a 'third defence' and would clearly smack of desperation.

If he has no issues as described by Vorster, then a pretty poor defence to begin with just falls into complete & utter disarray.

It is another delay but I sense that what we are seeing here is the State ensuring all bases are covered in ensuring the trial is fair, and avenues for appeal being blocked.

Just my humble opinion

I agree with your humble opinion

Masipa is bending over backwards to make sure OP has a fair trial to the point of making new legal precedent. OP is not gonna get off lightly.

 

[Fuskier]

I agree with your humble opinion

Masipa is bending over backwards to make sure OP has a fair trial to the point of making new legal precedent. OP is not gonna get off lightly.

Agree. Nel has done what he could up to this point. The Court acting in accord with the Act and taking steps to ensure a fair trial.
IMO it is best to have confidence in the Court process. The process from here until 30 June 2014 is the psychiatric assessment, formulation of Dx, and reports to the Court Registrar, Prosecution and Defendant.
Do we expect some corruption in the process? Well, it's possible. BUT the assessors are accountable to The Court! It is a Court Ordered Assessment.
Nel will deal with this through the Court - if this eventuates. JMO

 

[Mysteeri]

I understand what your saying but the bullets were fired at Reeva to kill her.......no question in my mind that he could see her through the gap in the door and he executed her. That's why her screaming 'intensified' because she could also see him and he was probably telling her what he was going to do to her.

Breaking the door panel with the shots would not even have been in his mind IMO

Well, good for you if there`s no question in your mind about it. I really can`t tell if he saw her. I can easily imagine a domestic fight were the other one threatens to break through the door if the other one doesn`t come out (or get the f... out of their house), and also intensified screams when a gun and/or cricket bat is being used. OP had been reckless with the gun before so it is not a big step for him to use it- to shoot open the door or to kill- I`m just not sure.

 

[Greater Than]

And don't anybody worry about him getting off due to being unaware of his action's blah blah blah because Nel's already got that covered

I did not fire a warning shot in the shower because it could ricochet and possibly hit me.

:winkkiss::winkkiss::winkkiss:

He also was screaming as he charged down the passage but then got quiet when he reached the bathroom because he "didn't want to give away his position."

He was thinking veryyyyyyy clearly that night.

 

[G.bng]

I think it's a huge win. My reasons are upstream. I have had in-patient psych assessments and they're not bad to begin with. Out-patient... a cake walk. trust me.

This is a travesty. Bet Nel didn't want it.

An MSE is not a punishment but a tool to help the court. In UK, US, Canada, etc. etc. it is usually on an an outpatient basis unless the professional panel or the court finds an extremely compelling reason (extreme violence or extremely erratic behaviour) for it not to be. And Nel was in agreement with Roux for it to be on an outpatient basis and Masipa definitely wanted it too and even placed on court record her pleasure that both counsels had agree the same. Shouldn't we just now give the panel and Masipa a little trust and let them work.

 

[eimajjjj]

Does anyone know how the verdict will be read? For example, if found guilty, will the judge read the guilty verdict first and then the reasons or will it be like the result for evaluation i.e. she reads all her reasons, keeps us guessing then reads the verdict? or are no reasons for her decision listed at all..?

 

[Trooper]

Does anyone know how the verdict will be read? For example, if found guilty, will the judge read the guilty verdict first and then the reasons or will it be like the result for evaluation i.e. she reads all her reasons, keeps us guessing then reads the verdict? or are no reasons for her decision listed at all..?

Generally speaking.. . She will not pronounce the verdict up front. This is not for drama purposes but for linear process in the verdict..

She will ( I am speaking generally here ) .. out line the body of the crime, the victim, the accused relationship /contact with the victim. She will go step by step, thru each witness, for the prosecution, and for the defence, and assign a weighting on the value , or probity of their evidence.. likewise, with expert witnesses for the P and the D. she will assign a confluence of the findings of the assessors.. their part in this is the assessors do FACTS, the judge does LAW.. she will apply the law to the facts.

She will adjudicate the testimony of the psychology area of the witnesses

She will out line her weighing up of the prosecution closing statement and the defence closing statement.

Then, the verdict..


The sentencing will take place most likely not at this same time.. submissions about sentencing after the verdict is handed down may take about a week. .submissions means a statement from possibly Reeva's mother, Oscar's family, his doctors, perhaps.. a submission from the prosecution office, perhaps... Oscar has been vocal about his beliefs, could be a submission from his pastor, if indeed he submits to one, which I doubt, etc..

She will deal with the little stuff first.. the ammo charge.. then the gunfiring charge , and probably pronounce a verdict on those before moving on to the murder charge.. I expect the sentencing for all charges will be given together after submissions taken.


again. in general terms..

 

[patCee]

I still can't get past M'lady saying 'weekdays' rather than 'everyday'. She hesitated after saying week.., and I thought she was going to say weekends and then she said 'weekdays'.

Generally if we refer to weekdays, we mean Mon to Fri. Sat and Sun are the weekends. Pedantic I know, but.....

I know.....none of the reports, articles etc are mentioning it.

OK, I've got it now, only 25 days up to the 30.6.14 if Mon to Fri only. DOH!!! I'll have a good think about myself.