Judge's Order re: OP's Mental Health Eval

[Trooper]

But surely if she goes step by step then we'll know pretty early on which way she'll go I.e. The minute she calls OP a liar or something he said improbable from the outset, it'll be easy to guess the outcome

there were 12, or maybe 11 witnesses before Oscar took the stand. Judges often leave the accused evidence till last, lining it up with the weighting given to the others.. Some witness evidence may be dismissed without a weighting. You may be very surprised at how very much you will be still not quite sure right up until the end.

but you may be a very very bright person and may even trump the judge. who knows??

 

[Really?]

Weskoppies. It looks quite nice, apart from the lack of a lawn. Not like an institution (from the outside) at all.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Pumza_Fihlani/status/468666212894126080/photo/1

Jeez is that it ? No wonder there is a wait time for beds..looks like. BnB to me

 

[eimajjjj]

there were 12, or maybe 11 witnesses before Oscar took the stand. Judges often leave the accused evidence till last, lining it up with the weighting given to the others.. Some witness evidence may be dismissed without a weighting. You may be very surprised at how very much you will be still not quite sure right up until the end.

but you may be a very very bright person and may even trump the judge. who knows??

Ah, I see. I guess we'll know the minute she dismisses any part of OP's testimony as untrue.

If that happens of course!

 

[Interested Bystander]

Jeez is that it ? No wonder there is a wait time for beds..looks like. BnB to me

I would say it is better than living at home for some, if not most, patients!

 

[kittychi]

there were 12, or maybe 11 witnesses before Oscar took the stand. Judges often leave the accused evidence till last, lining it up with the weighting given to the others.. Some witness evidence may be dismissed without a weighting. You may be very surprised at how very much you will be still not quite sure right up until the end.

but you may be a very very bright person and may even trump the judge. who knows??

I thought the judge showed her hand just a teensy bit when she at first did not seem to understand at all why Nel wanted the evaluation. In the end, she agreed with Nel's reasoning, that the court needed the information before the trial could procceed.

But her questioning in the first place, IMO, was not about procedure, but about OP's mental hralth...i.e. she did not see a mental health issue in OP that would preclude a fair trial.

 

[Cherwell]

It is possible that Frank is an 'illegal'....just sayin'...

I doubt that, as he is openly referred to in at least one newspaper article.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ol...nt-run-I-cheating-I-believe-purity-sport.html

Oscar Pistorius calls to his live-in caretaker from Malawi. 'Frankie, Frankie. Please can you bring me my legs, brother.'

BTW this is the infamous "machine gun by the window" article.

 

[turaj]

What a big fat joke. It went down exactly as someone had previously posted...a very comfortable place outpatient...and with evenings and weekends free to go to the luxury villa not only in the city but Mozambique. etc...times with his teen girlfriend etc. I think anyone that thinks true justice is going to happen here for this "national treasure" better buckle up. I am now prepared for him to be given a reprimand and go on his way at the end of this. A known killer and not with anxiety but with a very bad temper and sense of entitlement walking the streets...really nice. And gee what happened to that wait in SA for treatment? This is going exactly as Uncle Arnold could have hoped...he wanted to turn the tide that seems to be against OP. He has done just that. In the end all the analysis of bullet holes and sounds etc. makes little difference. He is OP and from a very influential family.

 

[Fuskier]

http://onthecouchwithcarly.com/2014/05/19/so-who-is-really-there-oscar/

"...The professionals at Weskoppies have seen their fare share. They therefore know all the tricks. I am confident that the team will not be fooled. Now we just have to wait and see".

 

[turaj]

http://onthecouchwithcarly.com/2014/05/19/so-who-is-really-there-oscar/

"...The professionals at Weskoppies have seen their fare share. They therefore know all the tricks. I am confident that the team will not be fooled. Now we just have to wait and see".

I'm sure they have seen it all...but my impression is that they may be significantly motivated to find something that allow OP to walk.

 

[acejase]

An MSE is not a punishment but a tool to help the court. In UK, US, Canada, etc. etc. it is usually on an an outpatient basis unless the professional panel or the court finds an extremely compelling reason (extreme violence or extremely erratic behaviour) for it not to be. And Nel was in agreement with Roux for it to be on an outpatient basis and Masipa definitely wanted it too and even placed on court record her pleasure that both counsels had agree the same. Shouldn't we just now give the panel and Masipa a little trust and let them work.

Didn't "milady" say he has to be there till 4pm or until he is excused... so am i right thinking that somewere along the line they can keep him in overnight for 1-? days just a thought ...

 

[Cherwell]

From the second link:

"The fact that Pistorius had been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder begs the question, who approved the medical certificate rendering Pistorius fit to own a gun?

To the best of my knowledge, people with any mental condition are definitely not allowed to own guns – for their own safety and that of those around them. The courts need to look into this matter urgently in view of the high number of fatal killings with guns in this country. "


Not for the first time someone rushes into print without actually knowing the facts. And it's a doctor. (a GP, I've checked)

AGREED, could not have said it better, :clap:

Bolded by you

I think you misunderstood my point.
When OP was granted permission to own guns, there had been no suggestion that he might have any mental disorder. He hadn't "been diagnosed with an anxiety disorder". So I didn't think the doctor's indignation was justified.

 

[Nausicaa]

Didn't "milady" say he has to be there till 4pm or until he is excused... so am i right thinking that somewere along the line they can keep him in overnight for 1-? days just a thought ...

I fear it means the opposite: he won't ever kept later than 4 pm but he may be let out earlier...

 

[jay-jay]

Didn't "milady" say he has to be there till 4pm or until he is excused... so am i right thinking that somewere along the line they can keep him in overnight for 1-? days just a thought ...

I would think it was more likely meant as the opposite, to be honest, i.e. that he will be allowed to go home earlier than 4pm. With regards to staying longer, or overnight stays, the panel of assessors themselves are only going to be working for a certain number of hours a day so outside of that I doubt they are really that concerned whether he stays there longer than 4pm each day (and I doubt it will be 'every' day, either .. all it means is that he must make himself available every day, depending on when the assessors need to interview him/get him to do various tests, etc). I would imagine that once they've done their couple of hours interviewing, or setting him various tests (psychometric, etc) he will be allowed to go home for the rest of the day (I could be wrong but I don't think that from the assessors point of view there will be much merit in him staying there, effectively with no-one assessing him, because that's what it would be)

 

[turaj]

Hypothetically speaking, what would 'significantly motivate' them to allow OP to walk? Can you elaborate here?

Not being at all familiar with the SA mental health system and hearing the order today which to me is open ended I am just not seeing OP being treated as any other common criminal in SA...so I am not ruling out bribes to put it bluntly...not saying that is common in a situation like this but not ruling it out. Who would have thought after all these months we would not have a verdict and have OP on a 30 day postponement with evaluation for GAD...something that I would say 90% of people living in the world have to some degree? For me...I think he needs to pay a significant price for taking Reeva's life for no explainable reason...I am just not confident he will. Here in US there have been many examples of the "rich and famous" having a different set of rules...this is looking like that to me. I hope I am wrong.

 

[CriLondon]

I fear it means the opposite: he won't ever kept later than 4 pm but he may be let out earlier...

Didn't "milady" say he has to be there till 4pm or until he is excused... so am i right thinking that somewere along the line they can keep him in overnight for 1-? days just a thought ...

Let's put it this way , if he's going through a particular test and he gets into a fit of rage (or any other relevant , inappropriate emotion that requires further , on the spot ,immediate evaluation) i'd like to think that he would NOT be "excused" at the end of business hours.

JMO

 

[turaj]

I still can't get past M'lady saying 'weekdays' rather than 'everyday'. She hesitated after saying week.., and I thought she was going to say weekends and then she said 'weekdays'.

Generally if we refer to weekdays, we mean Mon to Fri. Sat and Sun are the weekends. Pedantic I know, but.....

I know.....none of the reports, articles etc are mentioning it.

OK, I've got it now, only 25 days up to the 30.6.14 if Mon to Fri only. DOH!!! I'll have a good think about myself.

To me this is just a sort postponement...some more time for Roux and Arnold to cook up something....results will not doubt he is okay but has GAD and possible it could have a bearing on his actions that night but uncertain...and we are back to square one...case finishes and this will be used further if necessary depending on outcome. If nothing else it will be used for sentencing and whatever OP gets if anything will be shorter as a result of it. I see this as a victory for Roux but understand Nel and the judge had to proceed when it surfaced.

 

[Zim]

I would say it is better than living at home for some, if not most, patients!

I can assure you Weskoppies is NOT a holiday home...!

 

[Zuri]

What a big fat joke. It went down exactly as someone had previously posted...a very comfortable place outpatient...and with evenings and weekends free to go to the luxury villa not only in the city but Mozambique. etc...times with his teen girlfriend etc. I think anyone that thinks true justice is going to happen here for this "national treasure" better buckle up. I am now prepared for him to be given a reprimand and go on his way at the end of this. A known killer and not with anxiety but with a very bad temper and sense of entitlement walking the streets...really nice. And gee what happened to that wait in SA for treatment? This is going exactly as Uncle Arnold could have hoped...he wanted to turn the tide that seems to be against OP. He has done just that. In the end all the analysis of bullet holes and sounds etc. makes little difference. He is OP and from a very influential family.

Money talks everywhere in the world, SA seemingly to be no exception. I agree with turaj and KZ and others where stated that the mindset of OP at the time of the shooting has had the benefit of 20/20. IMO their report will reflect that OP was in fear for his life resulting in his subsequent actions because that is what he will tell them. GAD can be diagnosed and treated on an outpatient basis, but IMO, will reflect his current mental state rather than what it was a year ago.

I just have a sinking feeling, that despite everything that has come out at trial, OP will receive a slap on the wrist. It would not surprise me at all if he serves a minimal amount of time on house arrest or some special arrangement.

The court May be swayed by his custom suits with hand sewn lapels made of fine Italian wool. I am not. Justice for Reeva. JMV

 

[Zim]

Didn't "milady" say he has to be there till 4pm or until he is excused... so am i right thinking that somewere along the line they can keep him in overnight for 1-? days just a thought ...

Good point !

 

[Fuskier]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-27467169

Oscar Pistorius judge not swayed by court theatrics
by Andrew Harding, Africa correspondent.

"... Judge Masipa made clear last Thursday in her sober ruling on the prosecution's request for a psychiatric referral, it is not the antics of the lawyers that really interest her - only the law, the court transcript, and each side's written arguments based on the evidence they've managed to elicit from each witness"...