Judge's Order re: OP's Mental Health Eval

[Val1]

Carmelita,

I still haven't figured out how to resize and upload thumbnails so please , forgive me, but i'll put the links since yesterday i've blown the margins!!

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/pi...-sick-people-want-fill-her-head-doubts-n64036

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/world/africa/article3688259.ece

Now , please divide the face in two halves , vertically , and look at one side at a time.
As you look , the left side is involved , every muscle that is present in a genuine smile is active. I won't name them no need but i'm sure you can see , eye , cheek , mouth corner. Every muscle that is meant to move, in these pics moved.

Now please cover the left side (again as you look at it) and .... ouch...there's someone else right there .

The confusion you seem to have was just because i was referring to right/left side of the face as you look at it . Not ACTUAL right right and left.

I've seen much more involvement in a couple of pics after winning a race , i have an idea for that but it would need developing and scientific backing , which , as of right now i can indicate but not substantiate significantly.
It would have to do , again , with an active and subconscious memory that is filled with positive recollections of racing events ...effectively there's nothing ,active or redundant,in his memory that's negative and that can hold back an emotion.

If you reason along these lines , you'll see that it makes sense when you see somebody winning a race (or whatever else for that matter) , after not winning all his/her life , competing hundreds of times as also rans, break down and cry.
The first , real , emotion that comes out in order to feel the joy , is sadness. And that would be redundant. But it explodes , before the active emotion can be felt.
Subconscious works along powerful and mysterious lines....

Sorry everyone for the long post! And OT !

I actually have a question about the pics you posted, what does RS's face tell you? To me she looks sad, that smiling through her tears kind of look, in the first one(nbc) and the second(times) more confused.. like she's thinking, I got what I thought I wanted, now what?

 

[Fuskier]

Dr. Scholtz is actually a clinical psychologist. Clinical psychologists diagnose and treat mental disorders.


Dr. Fine : http://www.mayoclinic.co.za/doctors_fine.htm

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-05-20-pistorius-trial-week-nine-day-1/#.U3whc_mSyuI
"Dr. Leon Fine, the defence’s choice of psychiatrist, has a speciality in anxiety syndromes and “extensive experience” in giving evidence in court".

Just an opinion, I'd wager a guess that OP's auntie helped source Dr Fine for the DT as his quals, position and experience 'fit the call for psych evaluation in this case' perfectly.
JMO.

 

[Fuskier]

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/four-experts-to-examine-oscar-1.1690895#.U3weu_mSyuI
Four experts to examine Oscar
May 20 2014 at 10:56am By Shain Germaner

"...Forensic criminologist, Jackie de Wet explained to some of the conditions that Pistorius would experience during his time at Weskoppies:
... Pistorius will remain under observation; he’ll be subject to a series of tests and analysis with the panel of psychologists... Pistorius would be subject to differing tests including group and one-on-one therapy...". He said that one psychiatrists is assigned by the defence to ensure a non-biased observation.

 

[Fuskier]

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-05-20-pistorius-trial-week-nine-day-1/#.U3whc_mSyuI

Prof Herman Pretorius is one of two Weskoppies psychiatrists appointed by the court to assess Pistorius. In a previous high-profile case he was tasked with assessing a Baviaanspoort prisoner who slit two nurses’ throats. Pretorius told the court in that instance that there was no sign the accused was unable to appreciate the wrongfulness of his deeds.

 

[Fuskier]

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-05-20-pistorius-trial-week-nine-day-1/#.U3whc_mSyuI

"The other Weskoppies psychiatrist on the matter will be Dr. Carla Kotze, who has also testified in some noteworthy cases":

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/second-graveyard-killer-guilty-20121030/

"Maartens van der Merwe has been found guilty in the Virginia Circuit Court of killing Michael van Eck in a Welkom graveyard.
Judge Ian van der Merwe held that the accused could differentiate between right and wrong at the time of the murder; he did not suffer from any psychological illness at the time...The judgment came after the state called a final expert witness, Dr Carla Kotze of Weskoppies psychiatric hospital in Pretoria, who testified that the accused could understand right from wrong and there was no evidence of him being under any influence at the time of the crime".

 

[Fuskier]

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/artic.../#.U3whc_mSyuI

Psychologist Dr. Jonathan Scholtz, who is an Adjunct Professor at the University of Pretoria and the head of psychology at Weskoppies.

 

[Fuskier]

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/artic.../#.U3whc_mSyuI

"...It's clear, in other words, that Pistorius's mental observation is being undertaken by a team with substantial expertise and experience"

However, the decision of the court to have Pistorius observed as an out-patient is inevitably causing mutterings of special concessions in legal circles.
"...Concerns raised are that Pistorius's sleeping patterns and interpersonal dynamics (with other patients rather than psychiatrists) may not be assessed if he is an out-patient"

May be these observations are not integral to the questions before the evaluation team. JMO.

 

[Greater Than]

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2014-05-20-pistorius-trial-week-nine-day-1/#.U3whc_mSyuI
"Dr. Leon Fine, the defence’s choice of psychiatrist, has a speciality in anxiety syndromes and “extensive experience” in giving evidence in court".

Just an opinion, I'd wager a guess that OP's auntie helped source Dr Fine for the DT as his quals, position and experience 'fit the call for psych evaluation in this case' perfectly.
JMO.

I wouldn't doubt that they know each other, they all probably know each other, but the court appointed three of the four panel members. Having the fourth appointed by the defense is fair and ensures the evaluation is conducted in an impartial manner.

It's easy to be armchair judges and juries casting doubt and speculating how this is going to play out, but I'm choosing to be optimistic. These are four highly qualified, experienced experts in their fields. And the world is watching.

 

[MsMarple]

Yes thank you, i know the meaning
It's just the way i like to interact with people and when i saw that comment (which might have been a funny comment btw ) i curiously asked , that's all

Hi CriLondon!

Here's the whole conversation in its proper order.

HTH!

Sorry, if this has been asked and answered, I missed it. Who are those women wearing identical green outfits? Is that a uniform?

Hi. They're women's Defence league advocates for abuse etc against women. They're there to support June Steenkamp (Reeva's mum).

Thank you. Appreciate the fast response.

Ah no problem. It's not easy at times, sussing everything out hee x

 

[Gryffindor]

Just , respectfully , a totally genuine question., if i may?

Do you feel it's important to suss someone out ? Don't you think it's nice to be able to talk/discuss with anyone , especially those with different opinions ?

I find it enriches me to be able to discuss with anyone without really thinking about bias and opinions and how i should or shouldn't relate .

Again, it is a sincerely curious question and i thank you in advance if you could answer.

LOL! It's nothing to do with here. A poster asked who the "green ladies" in court were. I answered, pointing out who they were and informed them that sussing out who is who in court proved tricky, for most people, at the start. It was to put the poster at ease ;-)

 

[Gryffindor]

Hi CriLondon!

Here's the whole conversation in its proper order.

HTH!

Thank you ever so much, MsMarple ;-)

 

[Gryffindor]

Sorry but I have no idea what you are asking me. Are you asking if all of Oscar's childhood photos in his autobiography and on the internet have possibly been photo shopped? If that is the question my answer would be no.

I think Oscar's just smiling . . . . . x

 

[minor4th]

I think nearly all of his bail conditions were rescinded fairly soon after the bail hearing. I imagine he is not allowed to carry a gun but honestly cannot remember how many other bail conditions remain. Can you?

I really don't remember. Usually there would be a prohibition about contacting the victim's family. Probably periodic reporting to probation officer and requirements that he notify probation in advance of any travel

 

[Fuskier]

This post may seem out of step with the current topic, but I'm posting it for a WS who sighted an earlier post in Africaans translated into English - which I am now unable to find. The Africaans article described Frank Chiziweni as a 'caretaker and house boy'. However, this article has essentially the same content:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-at-Pistorius-home-on-night-of-shooting.html

Oscar Pistorius trial: Malawian housekeeper 'was at Pistorius home on night of shooting' By Aislinn Laing, Johannesburg.

The Malawian housekeeper, Frank Chiziweni, slept in the domestic quarters next to Pistorius's kitchen on the ground floor of his home... he was at home the night OP shot his girlfriend dead, but 'heard nothing'... despite neighbours living up to 170 metres away woken by sounds of an argument, shots and screams, then a man shouting for help...
A policeman confirmed Mr Chiziweni had been sleeping in a room off the kitchen and was awake when they arrived... Police said Frank Chizweni spoke good English, but upon request "What did you hear?” replied: “No, no, no, I didn't hear anything”... Police had been unconvinced by his response: “We were all asking ourselves how he could not have heard anything,” he said...

 

[Estelle]

This post may seem out of step with the current topic, but I'm posting it for a WS who sighted an earlier post in Africaans translated into English - which I am now unable to find. The Africaans article described Frank Chiziweni as a 'caretaker and house boy'. However, this article has essentially the same content:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-at-Pistorius-home-on-night-of-shooting.html

Oscar Pistorius trial: Malawian housekeeper 'was at Pistorius home on night of shooting' By Aislinn Laing, Johannesburg.

The Malawian housekeeper, Frank Chiziweni, slept in the domestic quarters next to Pistorius's kitchen on the ground floor of his home... he was at home the night OP shot his girlfriend dead, but 'heard nothing'... despite neighbours living up to 170 metres away woken by sounds of an argument, shots and screams, then a man shouting for help...
A policeman confirmed Mr Chiziweni had been sleeping in a room off the kitchen and was awake when they arrived... Police said Frank Chizweni spoke good English, but upon request "What did you hear?” replied: “No, no, no, I didn't hear anything”... Police had been unconvinced by his response: “We were all asking ourselves how he could not have heard anything,” he said...

What woke him up then?

 

[PrimeSuspect]

This post may seem out of step with the current topic, but I'm posting it for a WS who sighted an earlier post in Africaans translated into English - which I am now unable to find. The Africaans article described Frank Chiziweni as a 'caretaker and house boy'. However, this article has essentially the same content:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-at-Pistorius-home-on-night-of-shooting.html

Oscar Pistorius trial: Malawian housekeeper 'was at Pistorius home on night of shooting' By Aislinn Laing, Johannesburg.

The Malawian housekeeper, Frank Chiziweni, slept in the domestic quarters next to Pistorius's kitchen on the ground floor of his home... he was at home the night OP shot his girlfriend dead, but 'heard nothing'... despite neighbours living up to 170 metres away woken by sounds of an argument, shots and screams, then a man shouting for help...
A policeman confirmed Mr Chiziweni had been sleeping in a room off the kitchen and was awake when they arrived... Police said Frank Chizweni spoke good English, but upon request "What did you hear?” replied: “No, no, no, I didn't hear anything”... Police had been unconvinced by his response: “We were all asking ourselves how he could not have heard anything,” he said...

Thank you Fuskier for these articles, Noted from article - South Africa's massive but often invisible domestic worker class.

So the Stipps and OP had such servants. I'm intrigued, what is meant by this, 'invisible'? I don't like the sound of it ,to do with this case or otherwise. . :notgood:

Edit: Also noted, OP mentions Frank kept his house spotless.

 

[Cherwell]

I can tell you what it is, Jilly. An industrial (aka occupational/organisational) psychologist specializes in work-related psychology. So, a primary degree (major?) in psychology and a masters in the subject of specialization (human factors) is the usual path here in Ireland/UK. Globally, they often work in the corporate sector, dealing with HR issues, recruitment, efficient work performance, etc. It's a branch of I-O psychology. Very well paid work. Did I hear mention that it was a family friend he consulted with? I think I may have read that on here.

I think the term "family friend" may be an exaggeration. Let's remember that OP's aunt Micki will know lots of psychologists and similar through her line of work. Because she's worked with someone and trusts their judgement, it doesn't necessarily make them a family friend. Some may think I'm splitting hairs here, but I perceive a difference.

 

[CriLondon]

LOL! It's nothing to do with here. A poster asked who the "green ladies" in court were. I answered, pointing out who they were and informed them that sussing out who is who in court proved tricky, for most people, at the start. It was to put the poster at ease ;-)

Thank you , that was my misunderstanding , please disregard the question.
Sorry , i had no intention to offend , it was a genuine question to a misunderstanding of mine . Sincere apologies

 

[PPKik]

This post may seem out of step with the current topic, but I'm posting it for a WS who sighted an earlier post in Africaans translated into English - which I am now unable to find. The Africaans article described Frank Chiziweni as a 'caretaker and house boy'. However, this article has essentially the same content:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...s-at-Pistorius-home-on-night-of-shooting.html

Oscar Pistorius trial: Malawian housekeeper 'was at Pistorius home on night of shooting' By Aislinn Laing, Johannesburg.

The Malawian housekeeper, Frank Chiziweni, slept in the domestic quarters next to Pistorius's kitchen on the ground floor of his home... he was at home the night OP shot his girlfriend dead, but 'heard nothing'... despite neighbours living up to 170 metres away woken by sounds of an argument, shots and screams, then a man shouting for help...
A policeman confirmed Mr Chiziweni had been sleeping in a room off the kitchen and was awake when they arrived... Police said Frank Chizweni spoke good English, but upon request "What did you hear?” replied: “No, no, no, I didn't hear anything”... Police had been unconvinced by his response: “We were all asking ourselves how he could not have heard anything,” he said...

Didn't the earlier article describe Frank Chiziweni as living in a "Set-In district" from your quote? (I can't find that either and the Telegraph says I reached my limit.)

Is that a typical term for a type of room or a location of a room in relationship to the rest of the house? Could this room be on the opposite side from the upstairs bathroom?

What is particularly odd to me is not that Frank Chiziweni didn't hear anything, because the house may possibly be well-insulated, and it looks large, but that he was up and dressed when the Standers arrived. I wonder if the police asked him why he got up? Perhaps he did just hear the gunshots.

 

[james83]

What woke him up then?

Maybe he was just going for his daily 3.20am stroll around the estate.