Justin Billings

[Miss Muffet]

I'm just responding to this again because it seems you are hung up on it.

that night says he was having dinner with a GAVIN COLLANI????
anyone see a statement from this guy saying that Justin was there?

is Greg a Collani? Does this story true???
Aliby good? Why didn't gf go to dinner there? why if it was a date, didn't he take her there?
He called her and said parents dead?

I was reading under the girlfriends testimony.........I can't remember her name
something like Cambre Lee? In doc dump......will go look again

He had Cambre Gail Lee waiting all dressed up to go out with him???
Then he calls later and says his parents are murdered????

Justin went home after dinner with Clear? when he had a girl waiting on him for a DATE? then calls her about 8:30-9 pm and says parents are dead???

The ex-girlfriend didn't go to dinner at grandmothers because Justin never had plans to go to dinner with her. He had plans to go out with her AFTER he had dinner at Clear's grandmother's house. He went home after dinner with Clear because he got a call telling him that his parents had been killed.

Uh, me and Justin were supposed to go on a date, I guess you could say, last night that we had been planning all day and he told me he was gonna go eat dinner at Greg's parents house, Greg Clear, he's a good friend of ours too....he said he was gonna go eat dinner over there and then he was gonna call me when he was done....he didn't call me for ahile and I was all dressed up and ready to go and I didn't want to call hi and bug him, cause I knew he was eating dinner and he called me um, I have to check my phon, I do't know the exact time, but he called me about 8:00 8:30 somewhere in there and he told me, it might even be 9:00, somewhere in there, but he called me and said bothof his parents were shot.

Page 141, Document No. 621
http://weartv.com/newsroom/documents/billings_evidence.pdf

If you continue reading her statement, she never says that Justin was with Gavin Collini that night. She says that she ran into Gavin herself.

...all Gavin knows is Justin's parents are dead, that's about as far as it goes....cause I saw Gavin last night and I told him that his parents passed away.....

Page 146, Document 626
http://weartv.com/newsroom/documents/billings_evidence.pdf

Justin went home after dinner with Clear because he got a call that he needed to go home because something had happened to his parents. He left his girlfriend waiting because of that. If you read his testimony, it makes sense why he left her waiting all dressed up.

What we haven't found is verification from Clear's grandparents that they were there. Since Clear went with Justin to the Billings' house, that means Clear was with Justin at the time of the murders. But we don't know for sure if they were at the grandparent's house or not. Furthermore, I'm not so sure we can trust the testimony of the grandparents. Grandparents might cover for Clear.

What's interesting about her statement is the fact that the police were able to pinpoint that he told the ex-girlfriend that his parents were shot at 8:13PM during a first phone call. During a second phone call that night (they didn't pin down the time in the questioning, but they must have gotten the phone records to verify the time) he told her that they had been shot multiple times and the safe was stolen. Apparently, they believe that he knew that information before he should have had knowledge of it. And I don't believe his recollection of the phone calls/texts were accurate. He claims he texted her, not talked with her, but she has phone calls in her cell phone. THAT'S why LE was spending so much time on when he talked with her and what he said to her during their questioning of him.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Fireworks residue? What page is that on?

Page 345, Document No. 232

http://weartv.com/newsroom/documents/billings_evidence.pdf

 

[Miss Muffet]

But it makes sense that he knew his parents were shot.

His sister called him at 7:51 and just told him to get over to the house because there was an accident.

April called him while he was on the way to the house. April is the one who found the bodies.

So I'm not sure why LE is surprised that Justin told his ex-girlfriend that his parents were shot multiple times.

It does SEEM as if he shoudlnt' have known about the safe missing though.....

Page 320-321, Document Nos. 206-207

http://weartv.com/newsroom/documents/billings_evidence.pdf

 

[Lossmitpro]

Some discrepancies/noteworthy facts:

Claimed he cut his finger preparing chicken for chicken and dumplings, yet a later discussion of his movements has him up at 10:00AM, off to mall using GC Grandparent's vehicle, then turning car in, retiring with GC to GC parent's house to watch unspecified movies, until, at 5:30PM they got a call "Dinner's Ready" and walked over... no mention of when this food-prep and accident supposedly occurred, in the second interview.

* After dinner, JB seems very iffy on exactly where they were when that first call came in at 7:51 PM from AB. Seems to indicate they were at dinner with G-parents and left without making any fuss or excuses, but then says were walking between the houses, yet when discussing that call (not April's which he did get while on the road 'halfway to the house') he seems to say "so I continue driving... I continue driving..."

On his knowledge that his dad was shot in head and also had been dragged up the stairs.... the Investigator asking questions is the guy who actually brought him up to operate the camera gear ( In hindsight, perhaps a convenient thing, but a potentially HUGE investigative faux paux, IMHO), to help, and with him, they supposedly only saw the views we are familiar with from news...the investigator tries to confirm this... yet, when pressed on how he knows certain facts, Justin claims to have seen the tape of two men assaulting dad, claims the other policeman with yellow shirt was with him, but then he claims it was before the interviewing investigator got with him... but surely he recalls that the interviewer is the one who brought him in from the car, and then ONLY upstairs, and questions him to ensure Justin saw 'nothing else, right'?

On the safe -- similar confusion -- Justin claims to know nothing of the safe, yet he apparently has been talking about shots in the head and safes being taken BEFORE that information should have been known outside a small group of investigators.

When interviewer mentions how hyper the animals were during investigation at one point, confirm Justin's help: "I've got the dogs'... it seems someone must have had the dogs during the event, too.

Now, all of those probably have some logical explanation, or were just normal human mistakes in conflating two separate events, or errors in interpretation... but it makes me go "hmmmm."

 

[Miss Muffet]

Okay. I think LE simply got things twisted around and overly focused on Justin's knowledge of the shootings and safe.

Justin says that LE asked him if there was a safe while he was waiting outside, before he went into the house, around the time he talked to his ex-girlfriend.

Page 322, Document No. 209, Line 13

http://weartv.com/newsroom/documents/billings_evidence.pdf

With all of the police around at the very beginning, I'm sure someone did come outside and start asking him about safes.

And we know that he talked to Arpil on the phone on the way in the car. April found the bodies so he heard they were shot multiple times.

I'm no Justin defender, but I don't think his knowledge of the gunshots and the missing safe proves anything.

 

[Lossmitpro]

Okay. I think LE simply got things twisted around and overly focused on Justin's knowledge of the shootings and safe.

Justin says that LE asked him if there was a safe while he was waiting outside, before he went into the house, around the time he talked to his ex-girlfriend.

Page 322, Document No. 209, Line 13

http://weartv.com/newsroom/documents/billings_evidence.pdf

With all of the police around at the very beginning, I'm sure someone did come outside and start asking him about safes.

And we know that he talked to Arpil on the phone on the way in the car. April found the bodies so he heard they were shot multiple times.

I'm no Justin defender, but I don't think his knowledge of the gunshots and the missing safe proves anything.

I agree -- on those two points, while curious, it is hard to see any definitive "Ah- HA"!

 

[Miss Muffet]

On the safe -- similar confusion -- Justin claims to know nothing of the safe, yet he apparently has been talking about shots in the head and safes being taken BEFORE that information should have been known outside a small group of investigators.

I think I figured that out. He learned about the gunshots from April, who found the bodies, while he was driving to the house. He was questioned about the safe by LE while he was waiting outside in the yard. .

When interviewer mentions how hyper the animals were during investigation at one point, confirm Justin's help: "I've got the dogs'... it seems someone must have had the dogs during the event, too.

LE thanked him for helping the dogs. He rounded them up and put them in the trailer. As for who had the dogs during the event, that's all speculation at this point.

 

[UnderDog]

Sorry Miss Muffet, you got way too many maybe's in your defense. You really think April counted gunshot wounds? You really think LE gave him information about the safes through questioning?!

 

[Miss Muffet]

Sorry Miss Muffet, you got way too many maybe's in your defense.

Do I?

You really think April counted gunshot wounds?

It's not the number of gunshot wounds that matter. He had the number and location wrong. It's the fact he learned they had been shot that he learned from April. When he arrived, LE must have simply said they had been murdered, but not said how they had been murdered, and then were concerned when Justin knew they had been shot without considering that April had called him.

You really think LE gave him information about the safes through questioning?!

Yes! I'm not talking about the official statements. I'm talking about when he arrived at the house after the murders. He was the first adult child to arrive. He was THE ONLY PERSON they could ask to determine if anything had been stolen. LE couldn't even view the video tape without his assistance so they couldn't have known a safe was missing without talking to Justin or seeing it on the tape. And Justin says in his second interview that LE asked him about the safes when he was outside. Even if they didn't tell him one was missing (which could have happened), there might have been surprise in their voice or they might have repeatedly asked him to verify that one was in the bedroom. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize what someone is trying to figure out by the questions asked.

It's not to many mabyes. I'm sure there were TONS of officers on that property at the time. The officers questioning him could not have known what all of the other officers were doing. Once we get through this mountain of paperwork, we might even find an LE report stating that an officer talked to Justin about the safes.

 

[UnderDog]

Thanks for the reply Miss Muffet, but the number of gunshot wounds is pretty critical since JB was rather specific and relatively accurate. My point being that JB had the "general" manner correct and it's unlikely April gave him ANY details. In addition, to suggest that LE was concerned about safes at the point of JB's arrival is really a stretch. Why would they assume JB would even know about the safes? In addition, the line of questioning by investigators does not follow your premise in any manner at all. And I'll add that the investigators know EXACTLY what LE talked about with JB before his interviews. There were NOT "tons" of officers, there were various officers and they ALL have written DETAILED reports. It took JB 20 minutes to get there, it wasn't a "madhouse" as you suggest.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I glanced through the first Investigation Supplement Reports, and they dont' even mention their having Justin help them view the videos. But we know LE did have Justin help with the videos because LE talks about it during the interrogation of Justin. That tells me that LE doesn't always include EVERYTHING in their reports. LE could have questioned Justin at the crime scene about what could be missing from the house. That's totally normal for LE to do at a crime scene.

And it's possible Justin had a conversation with an officer that isn't recorded. A female told him to stay outside. There's nothing written by the female about that. What else did an officer say to him while he was waiting. I'm sure he was asking them lots of quesitons too. I would be if my parents had been murdered and I wasn't allowed to go into the house. I would't just sit there quietly.

 

[Miss Muffet]

Thanks for the reply Miss Muffet, but the number of gunshot wounds is pretty critical since JB was rather specific and relatively accurate. My point being that JB had the "general" manner correct

The only general manner that's correct is that his father was shot in the head. I'm sure that was obvious to April when she found the bodies.

......and it's unlikely April gave him ANY details.

Now you're making assumptions. I personally would say "your parents have been shot." His sister merely told him there had been an accident. But on the way to the house, he learned more when April called him. I'm sure he was asking for details too. I would be if I just found out my parents were killed.

In addition, to suggest that LE was concerned about safes at the point of JB's arrival is really a stretch.

I'm not saying they asked about safes. I'm saying that they probably asked if any valuables were kept in the house. Justin would have reponded with info about safes. Subsequent responses might have tipped him off that one was missing.

Why would they assume JB would even know about the safes?

Why would they ask him to help with the video equipment? He lived with his parents almost his entire life.

In addition, the line of questioning by investigators does not follow your premise in any manner at all.

Explain in more detail. I followed the questioning of both Justin and his ex. I specifically looked for why they were asking Justin these questions when I read the interrogation of the ex. If you look at the times of the phone calls, it does add up. It's all there in the statements.

And I'll add that the investigators know EXACTLY what LE talked about with JB before his interviews. There were NOT "tons" of officers, there were various officers and they ALL have written DETAILED reports.

Not sure about that. If they're going off DETAILED REPORTS, the DETAILED REPORTS don't even include that Justin helped with the video. That's a huge interaction with LE that isn't even documented.

It took JB 20 minutes to get there, it wasn't a "madhouse" as you suggest.

20 minutes to get there from the time he was called by his sister, not 20 minutes to get there after the murders or after LE arrived.

We need a timeline. I'm busy working on a detailed index of the PDF so it's easier to cross reference everything. I'm almost done. I'll be able to scan it and post a PDF of the index sometime tomorrow. Maybe someone else can start working on a timeline.

 

[UnderDog]

Now you're making assumptions. I personally would say "your parents have been shot." His sister merely told him there had been an accident. But on the way to the house, he learned more when April called him. I'm sure he was asking for details too. I would be if I just found out my parents were killed.

Yes, I made an assumption, But did Justin ever say "April told me"?

 

[UnderDog]

Not sure about that. If they're going off DETAILED REPORTS, the DETAILED REPORTS don't even include that Justin helped with the video. That's a huge interaction with LE that isn't even documented.

You are ASSUMING that from the way the questions were worded. the most important clue was when LE told him they already have the answer to their questions. It's important to maintain that perspective when reading through sunshine documents. Otherwise, you are susceptible to making "excuses" and creating false premise.

 

[daisy7]

I do find it odd that Justin said there "should have been" a safe in the master bedroom in his dad's closet, instead of just saying there is a safe. He knew the safe was gone, somehow.

Page 321.

http://weartv.com/newsroom/documents/billings_evidence.pdf

 

[Miss Muffet]

Yes, I made an assumption, But did Justin ever say "April told me"?

FIRST INTERVIEW 7/9/2009

He said his sister told him there was an accident and he learned more about what happened from April when she called him when he was about halfway to the house.

Page 319, Document 206

http://weartv.com/newsroom/documents/billings_evidence.pdf


Once he was at the property, he saw April in person and she told him what happened.

Page 320, Document 206

http://weartv.com/newsroom/documents/billings_evidence.pdf



SECOND INTERVIEW 7/10/2009

Halfway to the house, April calls and she's screaming hysterically. He didn't understand much of what she said. (Not as cool and collected as you like to imagine her. ) When he got to the house, the police sent him to wait at April's house. (That's when he was alone with April in person. He said the day before that she told him in person what happened and he fell to his knees crying.)

Page 353, Document 240

http://weartv.com/newsroom/documents/billings_evidence.pdf

 

[Lossmitpro]

I glanced through the first Investigation Supplement Reports, and they dont' even mention their having Justin help them view the videos. But we know LE did have Justin help with the videos because LE talks about it during the interrogation of Justin. That tells me that LE doesn't always include EVERYTHING in their reports. LE could have questioned Justin at the crime scene about what could be missing from the house. That's totally normal for LE to do at a crime scene.

And it's possible Justin had a conversation with an officer that isn't recorded. A female told him to stay outside. There's nothing written by the female about that. What else did an officer say to him while he was waiting. I'm sure he was asking them lots of quesitons too. I would be if my parents had been murdered and I wasn't allowed to go into the house. I would't just sit there quietly.

In line with that was his comment when an interrogator asked about his possible movements in the house, whether he went unescorted:

"No, I obeyed the rules"

So there was obviously some sort of briefing or dialog explaining to him the need to preserve the crime scene even as they brought him through it and into it, to work with the security system. Again, in retrospect, maybe not such a good decision.

 

[Miss Muffet]

You are ASSUMING that from the way the questions were worded. the most important clue was when LE told him they already have the answer to their questions. It's important to maintain that perspective when reading through sunshine documents. Otherwise, you are susceptible to making "excuses" and creating false premise.

I read the DETAILED REPORTS written by various officers.

They wrote NOTHING about Justin helping with the video equipment.

That's a huge detail that every single officer who wrote a report forgot to include.

So that proves that the detailed reports aren't as detailed as you like to believe.

That shows that there are things that officers forget to put into their reports----like asking him about valuables perhaps.

Goodness, they asked him to help with the video and they didn't write about that in their DETAILED REPORTS.

I'm assuming nothing based on the way they asked the questions.

I'm telling you that the DETAILED REPORTS are flawed.



MOST IMPORTANTLY, I think you're confused by what I'm saying. I'm not talking about the transcripted interrogations when I suggest that an officer asked him about valuables/safes/whatever. I'm talking about an officer walking up to him while he was waiting outside and asking him if his parents had valuables/where they kept valuables.

He says in the interrogation transcript that an officer talked to him about it while he was outside. There's proof in the statement transcript that there was a conversation about the safes with an officer that isn't documented in any officer reports released. Add to the fact that entire helping them with the video equipment isn't documented in the released officer reports either, and I'd say it's likely that he did have a conversation about the safes with an officer and he was able to guess (but didn't know for sure) from the questions that there was possibly a safe missing.

 

[Miss Muffet]

I do find it odd that Justin said there "should have been" a safe in the master bedroom in his dad's closet, instead of just saying there is a safe.

Page 321.

http://weartv.com/newsroom/documents/billings_evidence.pdf

Yes. I found that odd too. That's one reason I've been spending yesterday and today on Justin.

Justin has my only focus since these documents have been released. I'm only reading things that are related to Justin in some way or another.

I'm saying that a conversation happened with an officer that tipped him off that a safe might have been missing, but he didn't know for sure.

 

[Lossmitpro]

I appreciate the rather ticklish dialog that is going on here, sensitive both because contributors seem to be getting their hackles up a bit, and because we are dealing with a young man, presumed to be (and very very likely truly is, in fact) completely innocent of any wrong doing, a young man who, BTW just lost his parents, yet we are all trying in our own way to ferret out facts and possible discrepancies that could be useful towards establishing the true facts of this horrific and complicated crime.

For the time being, maybe it is best to just go back as much as possible to a dispassionate sorting of facts/statements: "here it appears it says thus and thus, yet here it appears to be at odds..."

For now, I will say that ALL the potential issues or discrepancies I have seen in these statements for this person could EASILY be explained as has been offered from other posters -- through undocumented informal dialog that was bubbling through the air those first few days and nights.