KC KNEW that Caylee was dead ALL ALONG!?!?

[Leomoon80]

Yes, they knew and they took money knowing that Caylee was no longer alive as well as going on national tv throwing innocent people under the bus. I'm glad that GA has refused to fall on the sword for ICA but I don't think he is doing it for Caylee, he's doing it to save his self. When I look back on his actions throughout this case, it's bitter sweet. As far as CA, we will soon see. This case is truly a sad affair. Forgive me for going slightly OT.

Ref:

I had completely forgotten about this.....how awful to contemplate that they deliberately did this knowing all along and trying to pin this on someone else, namely Zannie the Nanny and there really was a woman with her name who had to get herself a lawyer which cost her money.

Then didn't they also chirp in that the meter reader was partly to blame or fully to blame via insinuations? Refresh my memory please on that one.

I've felt all along that the parents truly did CA a terrible disservice by not getting her mental health help from the very beginning, IF they knew that she (Cayley) was dead and when they surmised this (with the smells and adding 2 + 2 , for certain between themselves.

All this wasted time and energy by so many including all those thousands of strangers who were sent on a wild goose chase and the raising of funds. I recall them going on National TV Show in NY as well, on the morning shows.

I can understand however, they'd want to raise money for Casey's defense and lawyers, yet to do so in less then an honest way I have a real problem with, and now don't know that I'd trust them today either.

They seem to be constantly changing their tune.

 

[chizap]

In the early days of the investigation...KC telling someone "she was given a script" ??
The way they(the family) interact with each other, there "own" private investigations, amateur investigation, etc.
Like GA said, we wouldn't want to be in ANY of their shoes. I pray for all of them. God Bless Caylee, beautiful innocent angel.:angel:

 

[txsvicki]

`George and Cindy probably believe that Caylee did die accidentally in the pool and are still supporting Casey. George could even be allowing these accusations to save his daughter. Someone has to be blamed besides Casey, and all the media circus gossip that was already out to the public is being used. It also wouldn't suprise me if she didn't somehow frame George, somehow just before they picked up the car from the towyard.

 

[tankgirl]

Should the jury find Casey only guilty of manslaughter (or less), it seems to me that many of them will be slapping their foreheads in dismay once the trial is over. At that point they will be free to access all of the info that has been available to the public.
I wish that they could see each and every jailhouse visit video and see how Casey interacted with her family before utterly smearing them.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

But how do we explain the computer searches?

I have always thought that the computer searches were for GA and CA. I think that she was planning on offing at least those two and possibly (probably) Caylee also. This was how she was going to move her friends into the parents house because they were getting a divorce and CA was going to take Caylee and give KC the house. Totally MOO

 

[ziggy]

The state will have a grand old time with their closing statement. The defense can't 'prove' these allegations now without putting KC on the stand. JB can't allow KC to get on the stand if he knows she is lying about the abuse. That is a huge ethical lapse for a defense attorney. The state gets two shots at a closing statement. they give theirs, the defense gives theirs and then the state has the final word after that. LDB took lots and lots of notes as JB was giving his opening statement. I am sure whoever does the closing statement will be sure to point out every single thing JB said that turned out to be a lie or not even come close to being proved. don't worry about the jury forgetting what JB said and then didn't prove, the State will most assuredly point that out again and again and again in their closing statement.

Pretty much isn't that what happened in Scott Peterson? MG never produced satanists etc. and his opening statement was powerful in his unshakeable belief in his client;s absolute innocence!!! But day after day of hearing the evidence mixed with Scott's actions, the jury began to get the picture. All the other pictures that were painted early on melted due to lack of evidence...and they are supposed to consider only the evidence presented at trial. So, I hope the jury will get it here and I hope the SA's will deliver justice for Caylee (and for George and Cindy even if they don't see it now).

 

[Wescott]

Baez can always say that Casey did not admit the drowning to him until sometime after Caylee's remains were found. Sometimes a case can go on for a long time before the attorney(s) will decide what their defense will be. In fact, I think this theory didn't materialize until he had already exhausted every other possible explanation for Casey's behavior during that 31 days. And... we have to remember it only takes one juror to have reasonable doubt.
I do recall some theories right here in the early days that involved Caylee drowning in the pool and Casey panicked and tried to cover it up because she was scared of Cindy, so to me, this is not surprising at all. Maybe he reads here.

It really bothers me that if he knows that his client has been lying to him and he is going along with her as she changes her stories he is lying to the jury. Client attorney privilige IMO obstructs justice. I think of the Alton Logan case which Andrea L was involved in. He was incarcerated wrongly for 26 years because of that privilege. In fact it more than bothers me, it makes me quite ill.

 

[Wescott]

On the subject of JB knowing that Caylee was dead all along and not telling anyone, therefore thousands of dollars being spent on searching, following tips, and donations for the search: Couldn't he just claim attorney client privledge? I don't know if that would be the case, which is why I'm asking.

I think you are exactly right.

 

[nitasch]

Question: Wouldn't the clothes have shown traces of chlorine or pool chemicals if she had drowned? That's assuming that they did not change her deceased body?!!?

Let's just address the condition of the remains and the scraps of clothing when they were recovered.

The bones were scattered due to animal activity, with like body part bones (spine, arms, etc) very sad and almost too much to fathom. But since like parts of the anatomy bones were found with other like parts, means that there were connective tissue attached still, think of dragging, consuming, hard matter left.

The clothing was mostly shredded, most of the area laid under water for months... what exactly would tests on the clothing show as far as chemical composition result in? Swamp related materials?

Lets just say, you went swimming in a pool, then, you threw your bathing suit in a field with irrigation water, insects, animals etc. After six months you retrieve what is left of the suit, and have it tested, do you believe it would have traces of swimming pool chemicals?

IMO

 

[katydid23]

Wasn't there a diaper found as well? If she had drowned there would be no diaper left on her anymore. And who would put a diaper on a dead babY?

 

[nitasch]

Pretty much isn't that what happened in Scott Peterson? MG never produced satanists etc. and his opening statement was powerful in his unshakeable belief in his client;s absolute innocence!!! But day after day of hearing the evidence mixed with Scott's actions, the jury began to get the picture. All the other pictures that were painted early on melted due to lack of evidence...and they are supposed to consider only the evidence presented at trial. So, I hope the jury will get it here and I hope the SA's will deliver justice for Caylee (and for George and Cindy even if they don't see it now).

IMO you are correct. I think today was kind of a neutral day for both sides, but then again, the majority of the witnesses since the beginning are just laying a foundation of getting to know ICA during the time right before and directly after Caylee was last seen by anyone besides her mother.

Right now, as far as the jury is concerened, and any person watching that does not have a lot of knowledge of the case, it is up in the air...one would not convict ICA at this point, it is pretty confusing as far as what the jurors have to think about.

BUT, think about all the hard evidence to come... videos, phone call from jail, police, FBI, forensics... we are in for a ride, and I would look at this jury much like the Peterson jury. JMO

 

[gitana1]

Chablis, the jury has been told she knew her daughter was dead, but wouldn't a loving mother still be in grief mode? I don't think the state's case has been damaged, in fact, it's confirming that Casey was no more upset that Caylee was gone then if ICA had stomped on a bug.

Manatee, no one knows Caylee drowned in the pool, only JB is saying that. The jury has to decide if Caylee drowned in the pool accidentally, with or without duct tape, or was it placed there after for an unknown reason (on a soaking wet child?) or was Caylee murdered with the duct tape, no pool involved, and then tossed into the car truck before being dumped in the woods.

Not clear cut at all.

I agree there should be hell to pay if people knew she was dead, yet they took donations, had people searching, etc. The outcome of the trial would tell us if anything can be done about the expenses, but I think it's all lost anyway no matter which way it goes.

That's right. JB actually has to provide evidence that Caylee drowned to support his opening statement and the jury is waiting for that. And he can't.

Oh, casey can testify but she is already showing she will not be credible. She wailed when JB talked about her dad forcing her to perform sex acts. But when he mentioned when and how Caylee died, she merely took a breathe and stared ahead. The jury noticed that and they will continue to notice that she has no clue how feeling humans react.

I think a good point has been made: Yes, I suppose it's possible for sexual abuse to teach a child how to pretend all is normal, how to keep secrets and lie. But does it teach a person not to grieve for their most beloved child? That's when I call B.S.!

I know survivors of all sorts of terrible abuse. I know some who have been irrevocably damaged as a result. I don't know one who would fail to outwardly grieve the death of their loved one - quite the opposite.

casey didn't just lie and keep the secret. She didn't just act like she always did. She had fun! She had sex the day after her baby died, all day long! She partied, she grinned and smiled and laughed and danced!!!!!! She danced!

She acted much more flip and flamboyant than Darlie Routier who was sentenced to death after the jury saw a mere clip of a video of her dancing and laughing at the graves of her son and some say Routier cried and wailed and grieved on various occasions, including that very day.

In this case, we have much more than a clip. And we have no evidence casey ever cried or grieved at all. Think of that! How much evidence we have to show how casey lived it up in the days after the admitted death of her baby!

A clip got Darlie Routier the needle. Now more than ever am I coming to realize, casey is doomed.

 

[Bree0372]

Jay Hebert, Defense Attorney, was speaking on HLN (with Vinnie P earlier), he said if Caylee's death was an accidental drowning and Jose Baez knew this, he should have raced down to the SA's office and told them where the babies body was to get his client out of jail and off 1st degree murder charges.

He went on to say there is a reason why Baez didn't do this: had he done it, it would have only been 31 or so days after the baby died and there would have been the possibility to find out that there was no water in her lungs to say that it was an accidental drowning. He called BS on Baez's 'accidental death' theory.

I've always asked myself why would I (if I were Casey's attorney) allow my client to sit in jail for nearly 3 years is she is innocent (and now, if it was indeed an accident)? Moreso, why would I (if I were Casey....shuttering at the thought) not tell the truth and be set free (now time served) for negligence resulting in the accidental drowning death of my child?

In the beginning, I too thought she drowned (accidental or not) in the pool because of the hits in the back yard. But, after that, my thoughts changed...once I saw the shopping videos and read the depositions on how she went about her life as tho nothing happened.

However, I think Baez could bring in the jail house phone calls/videos where Cindy asked about Casey's involvement. And, Casey responded (paraphrased), "What do you mean you don't know what my involvement is?" This infers that Cindy knew. As well, when Cindy was visiting Casey and she asked if she told them anything and Casey responded saying "I didn't tell them anything" (again, paraphrased).

I also think that they will use the fact that George told her to write Sheriff Beary a note requesting a meeting. I think they will say that he was trying to get to her in order to discuss this.

Things like this make me suspicious of GA and CA; however, I will not believe one word out of Casey's mouth; she has proven time and time again that she will lie. I believed in the beginning they were grieving grandparents. If they weren't, they were dang good actors.

I don't believe that GA molested her nor do I believe that LA molested her. However, I think that CA will throw GA under the bus -- and I hope that I'm wrong. Oh, I missed most of the testimony today, but I wonder if the SA asked Mallory about her statements in her depo on how she wasn't really close with Casey. Didn't she admit that she didn't spend a lot of time with Casey? If that's the case, then how does she know that Casey and Caylee had an "amazing" bond? :waitasec:

I think this theory was finalized 6 weeks prior when Mark Lippman and Cindy went to Baez's office - Lippman stated that is when he was told that they would be saying this about George.

Honestly, I don't know what to think anymore - throw them all in the jail house. Baez and Company are making a mockery of our justice system and the family, well....I've said enough. :maddening:

ETA: Simon from the tow company said something interesting today (to me anyway). He said it wasn't until he was doing his rounds and he put his hand to the window to look in (because the sun was so bright) that he actually smelled the decomp. So, if it took shutting the car up for that long, in the hot FL sun, for the smell to become so strong that he could smell right near the car, then it goes to reason that Tony L wouldn't have smelled anything with the trunk open (next to a dumpster) 3 feet away.

One more thing...Casey crying during the DT opening statement when he said that about the sexual abuse thing. I wonder if it wasn't because "OMG, I just implicated my dad!" Not because he did anything to her. She's such a ... nevermind.

 

[Melanie]

Yes, I believe she knew Caylee Marie was dead straightaway. She didn't want the body found because then LE would find out how she died (and I'm still not convinced it was drowning). If so, there was no need for duct tape.

And why wait all these years if you're going to throw out a defense that she drowned in the family pool, GA found her, and GA dumped her in the woods. Oh, that's right - they were in cahoots together (not)!

This entire case has my head spinning, and I apologize because sometimes I can't even write anything that makes sense!

How a normal, sane person can leave their child out in the woods that long is beyond me. Especially if she knew all along she was there (and no, I'm not buying the Roy Kronk stashed Caylee's body then put it (back) to be found by him later).

This is worse than any Lifetime movie I've ever seen.

MOO

Mel

 

[Melanie]

IMO you are correct. I think today was kind of a neutral day for both sides, but then again, the majority of the witnesses since the beginning are just laying a foundation of getting to know ICA during the time right before and directly after Caylee was last seen by anyone besides her mother.

Right now, as far as the jury is concerened, and any person watching that does not have a lot of knowledge of the case, it is up in the air...one would not convict ICA at this point, it is pretty confusing as far as what the jurors have to think about.

BUT, think about all the hard evidence to come... videos, phone call from jail, police, FBI, forensics... we are in for a ride, and I would look at this jury much like the Peterson jury. JMO

I agree - we're in the early days yet, and the SA hasn't even put out a portion of their case. The videos today were quite damaging (all that shopping after you found your child dead in the pool)? Is that what they call Ugly Coping?

I want to see Yuri on the stand and the Z-T-N story described. Then the forensics, oh and Lee and Amy. I didn't get much from Tony, but feel for the guy - he's been sitting in the courtroom hallway all week!

MOO

Mel

 

[Melanie]

Let's just address the condition of the remains and the scraps of clothing when they were recovered.

The bones were scattered due to animal activity, with like body part bones (spine, arms, etc) very sad and almost too much to fathom. But since like parts of the anatomy bones were found with other like parts, means that there were connective tissue attached still, think of dragging, consuming, hard matter left.

The clothing was mostly shredded, most of the area laid under water for months... what exactly would tests on the clothing show as far as chemical composition result in? Swamp related materials?

Lets just say, you went swimming in a pool, then, you threw your bathing suit in a field with irrigation water, insects, animals etc. After six months you retrieve what is left of the suit, and have it tested, do you believe it would have traces of swimming pool chemicals?

IMO

Hard to believe really, since she was found in the big trouble shirt and jean shorts. If she drowned, why was she changed? Was it because it would be too obvious that a bathing suit was missing? That's the only reason I can think of. But I can't get away from the clothing, the duct tape, diaper, and chloroform. All of which do not point to an accidental drowning with GA cradling Caylee in his arms. So very sad.

MOO

Mel

 

[katydid23]

I suppose Casey couldn't go the SA and point them to the body because she was waiting for someone to find it themselves. That way she had a SODDI to try and pin it on.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I don't think GA or CA knew. I think they just tried to "manage" ICA as much as possible to avoid her venom. Think about it - if you were them, would you want to confront ICA? She doesn't tolerate anyone questioning her. In that family you probably had to avoid her at all costs imo. Not making excuses, I just don't think they had many options with someone as despicable and cruel as ICA.

 

[nitasch]

Hard to believe really, since she was found in the big trouble shirt and jean shorts. If she drowned, why was she changed? Was it because it would be too obvious that a bathing suit was missing? That's the only reason I can think of. But I can't get away from the clothing, the duct tape, diaper, and chloroform. All of which do not point to an accidental drowning with GA cradling Caylee in his arms. So very sad.

MOO

Mel

I may have not explained my position well, I am sorry. If you look at all of the evidence released thus far, not in the trial, but documents released for al to see in the last three years.

Let me be very clear, I call complete BS on the theory the DT spewed out in opening statements.

BUT, sadly Caylee was not found in a diaper, jean shorts and "Big trouble" shirt. Caylee's body was not found in one place, but scattered over a portion of land, as was the clothing that was found, in pieces mostly.

The autopsy report, along with the forensic team findings are troubling to say the least.

 

[gngr~snap]

Early on IIRC ICA was given a script for 30 days, and had been taught or told not to trust LE? It has been a while!