Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024

[Elley Mae]

I do wonder about the phones, could they have picked up each others phone at lunch and the sheriff noticed and then found something on the judge’s phone?

 

[bestill]

Being the sheriff, he could have planned out a "perfect murder", dispose of the body, evidence, and been a free man for much longer, if not forever. The way he committed this murder makes me think that he wants the motive, and his responsibility for the murder, to be known.

Seriously. Makes me think that this was a quick and rash decision, something was discovered and the sheriff reacted immediately.

 

[acehard]

<modsnip - quoted post was rumor>


From the little we know, he straight up executed the judge with 8 bullets in his chambers. That's a capital offense.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Being the sheriff, he could have planned out a "perfect murder", dispose of the body, evidence, and been a free man for much longer, if not forever. The way he committed this murder makes me think that he wants the motive, and his responsibility for the murder, to be known.

Yes @KooshBall ….. and that IMO would probably satisfy any or all elements of premeditation. IANAL. MOO

 

[CuriousCricket]

I do wonder about the phones, could they have picked up each others phone at lunch and the sheriff noticed and then found something on the judge’s phone?

Could he have unlocked the judge's phone to see anything? I wouldn't think so.

My own mind is thinking of the former bailiff and deputy who used the judge's chambers. He would, in my opinion, have nosed around extensively in the chambers, perhaps even planting his own cameras. Perhaps HE sent both men a photo. The sheriff was very quiet at lunch. Then, after thinking about it, the sheriff, who didn't really believe it, went to have a private talk with the judge. When he discovered the photo was legit, the sheriff "snapped".

IF this is the scenario, I'm thinking the sheriff will say he has no memory of the event, but when he came to himself, there the judge lay and his own gun was in his hand. He immediately exited with his hands up -- still in total shock. Just guessing and writing a possibility that is likely more fiction than fact.

 

[Dotta]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1837479436129566818

 

[nerosleuth]

Letcher County is a rural county in Eastern Kentucky where folks know everyone, know about your family, and most are related by blood or marriage.

With that in mind, there is the possibility that Stines may have to be tried for murder in another county, possibility in another region in Kentucky.

They may not be able to seat a jury in Letcher County on account of pretrial publicity, folks that knew the judge and sheriff, or are related in some way with their families.

 

[sunspun]

Too late to edit my post, but I should point out an error I made when I said that the guy who was arrested in the pizza place had the same last name as the judge. Their names are similar, but not the same. So disregard my previous post pls! sorry!

 

[Elley Mae]

Could he have unlocked the judge's phone to see anything? I wouldn't think so.

My own mind is thinking of the former bailiff and deputy who used the judge's chambers. He would, in my opinion, have nosed around extensively in the chambers, perhaps even planting his own cameras. Perhaps HE sent both men a photo. The sheriff was very quiet at lunch. Then, after thinking about it, the sheriff, who didn't really believe it, went to have a private talk with the judge. When he discovered the photo was legit, the sheriff "snapped".

IF this is the scenario, I'm thinking the sheriff will say he has no memory of the event, but when he came to himself, there the judge lay and his own gun was in his hand. He immediately exited with his hands up -- still in total shock. Just guessing and writing a possibility that is likely more fiction than fact.

My phones not locked.

 

[mickey2942]

I would consider this under the category of "Work Place" violence. I am interested to find out what the reason was for this. I doubt that we will ever really find out...

 

[Live_and_Learn]

…Watts said the two worked closely together. As Mullins started a program to help inmates with substance abuse disorders, and Stines helped drive those people to and from appointments.

That is interesting, considering the subject of the civil case.

 

[MassGuy]

I would consider this under the category of "Work Place" violence. I am interested to find out what the reason was for this. I doubt that we will ever really find out...

Oh I think we'll know exactly why. They've described him as "cooperative," which means he's speaking to law enforcement. I know there's a lot of speculation and rumors about the motive, but whatever it is, I think this guy feels like it was justified. He'd feel compelled to explain himself.

 

[Kudzuu]

Motive and Intent are Different.

snipped for focus @Kudzuu There's bound to be lots of discussion about motive on this thread, in soc media, MSM & elsewhere, but motive is not an element of what a prosecutor must prove in court for murder convictions. In trials, the jurors are usually curious about motive, so prosecutors often present evidence of a def't's motives, but KY. statute does not require it.

Motive, or the REASON the defendant commits a criminal act, can help explain a defendant’s actions or culpable mental state, but motive alone cannot act as a substitute for INTENT to cause the death.

A KY prosecutor's case must include evidence showing the elements of the MURDER offense as defined by KY. statute, which reads in part:
" 1) A person is guilty of murder when:
"(a) With intent to cause the death of another person, he causes the death of such person or of a third person..." *


________________
* For the sake of distinguishing "intent" to cause death as an element of murder, above I omitted some of that section, which may or may not be applicable to this case later.
KY. Murder statute
https://apps.legislature.ky.gov/law/statutes/statute.aspx?id=19717

Thanks for the explanation. I wasn't precise and wasn't considering the prosecution of the case. My point was thinking about what could trigger the sheriff in this situation to murder the judge and the information on the phones would tell the story.

As for the trial I have no opinion. Justice comes in many forms in "them thar hills".
Ebm

 

[CuriousCricket]

Oh I think we'll know exactly why. They've described him as "cooperative," which means he's speaking to law enforcement. I know there's a lot of speculation and rumors about the motive, but whatever it is, I think this guy feels like it was justified. He'd feel compelled to explain himself.

That seems reasonable. I've been thinking along the same lines. This case and the musical "Chicago" have been on my mind this morning as I wonder if the "He Had It Coming" song will play into the defense. Remember the play was first written in 1926 when "justice" was very different from 2024. And, in my own opinion only, it seems the thinking might continue in some spots where I live and in nearby Kentucky. The musical in 1975 was followed in 2002 with a film version starring Renée Zellweger, Catherine Zeta-Jones, and Richard Gere for anyone unfamiliar with the show.

 

[sunshineray]

It seems like charges were filed quickly, before the scene was properly analyzed and evidence taken.

He was shot at 3 p.m. Thursday, and a few hours later there are charges of 1st degree murder. I would like more information about how charges were filed so quickly.

He confessed?

 

[sunshineray]

But would someone with no context about the locals and their relationships to each other be able to conduct a thorough investigation?

Yes of course. It happens all the time, investigators that know nothing about the victim nor the killer's background. They learn by investigating.

 

[CuriousCricket]

Yes of course. It happens all the time, investigators that know nothing about the victim nor the killer's background. They learn by investigating.

Outside investigators will lack the bias that knowing all the histories and personalities bring with it.

 

[Cryptic]

Letcher County is a rural county in Eastern Kentucky where folks know everyone, know about your family, and most are related by blood or marriage.

With that in mind, there is the possibility that Stines may have to be tried for murder in another county, possibility in another region in Kentucky.

They may not be able to seat a jury in Letcher County on account of pretrial publicity, folks that knew the judge and sheriff, or are related in some way with their families.

Though I think you have a very good point about how interwoven rural eastern Kentucky counties are, my bet is that they are going to de facto need to keep the trial in Letcher County- unless the defense agrees to the move.

Moving the trial with out defense consent would seem to present very strong grounds for a successful appeal based on variations of:

- They knew they could not convict me locally amongst a jury of my peers, so they moved me to a place where they could....

- Oh, had trouble seating a jury? Well, that showed how strong my defense was! They should have tried harder. After all, they have all the resources of the State.

 

[fred&edna]

Letcher County is a rural county in Eastern Kentucky where folks know everyone, know about your family, and most are related by blood or marriage.

With that in mind, there is the possibility that Stines may have to be tried for murder in another county, possibility in another region in Kentucky.

They may not be able to seat a jury in Letcher County on account of pretrial publicity, folks that knew the judge and sheriff, or are related in some way with their families.

I'm curious as to who will represent Stines in court.

 

[sunshineray]

Outside investigators will lack the bias that knowing all the histories and personalities bring with it.

Yes, that too.