Kentucky - Judge killed, sheriff arrested in Letcher County courthouse shooting - Sep. 19, 2024

[Cryptic]

Yes, NOW since Sept 19, seems strange for people who have known him to say he IS "honorable", but likely from their PoV, right up THRU midafternoon Sept 19 he was honorable, at least to them.

I dont think its so strange given the local culture. Honor cultures can value personal personal honor, respect / disrespect more than the written law, including written laws against murder.

Likewise, murder is not always seen as inherently wrong in these cultures- though in modern times, it is punished as such in Appalachia. Rather, it would depend on why the murder was committed.

In short, in honor cultures whether they are in the hills of Appalachia, some mountain areas the world over, or.... the streets of south Chicago, committing murder does not automatically cause some body to lose their status as "honorable".

 

[vls12345]

In the state where I live sworn officers bypass the metal detectors as they are allowed to bring guns into the courthouse.

JMO

I didn't think of that. I imagine that's what happens here as well.

Saw this:

In Kentucky, sheriffs are responsible for security at courthouses – including the personal security of judges – according to Jerry Wagner, a retired sheriff who is now the executive director of the Kentucky Sheriff’s Association.

“We have 120 sheriffs that work on a daily basis with our judges. We work more closely with them than any other elected officials,” Wagner told CNN Friday.

From: https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/21/us/k...gles-sheriff-charged-judge-killing/index.html

 

[sunshineray]

I'm not sure how things are done in Kentucky (I'm in CA so I only know what happens here). In our state you have to go through metal detectors and have your bag searched to even get into the courthouse. Was the sheriff posibly working inside the courthouse when the shooting occured? (thus being able to have a gun?)

IIRC, in one of the articles at the beginning of the thread it said this courthouse is one of few in KY that doesn't have detectors.

 

[al66pine]

Pic on Sheriff's FB Page?

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I can see only a handful of pix but noticed one in top-row pic, where MS is wearing royal blue t-shirt emblazoned:
"ARCHIE
BUNKER '24
Stifle Yourself Dingbat"

Catch the attn of anyone else? Any meaning re "All in the Family" TV series for a guy who was not born or an infant in its original network broadcast years, 1971-1979.

Was it a "gag-gift?"
Online vendors showing as "Funny Retro Archie Bunker" t-shirt.
Why would an elected official post it on public FB?
No biggie I guess.

 

[Simply Southern]

It does make me wonder about Stines' recent attempts to open up liquor sales in the county presenting it as a good opportunity to gain tax revenue for the county. I can see a small county being overwhelmed by the legal fees and potential payout for settlement for a civil suit involving SA of inmates by a court officer. Perhaps the petition to open up liquor sales was an attempt to plug that hole in the finances caused by the suit?

Cities and counties have liability insurance. The insurance would provide legal representation and cover monetary awards up to the value of the policy.

Moo...

 

[sunshineray]

I dont think its so strange given the local culture. Honor cultures can value personal personal honor, respect / disrespect more than the written law, including written laws against murder.

Likewise, murder is not always seen as inherently wrong in these cultures- though in modern times, it is punished as such in Appalachia. Rather, it would depend on why the murder was committed.

In short, in honor cultures whether they are in the hills of Appalachia, some mountain areas the world over, or.... the streets of south Chicago, committing murder does not automatically cause some body to lose their status as "honorable".

His job included him seeing to the security of the judge...who he murdered. Quite the departure from his sworn duty. MO

 

[vls12345]

I dont think its so strange given the local culture. Honor cultures can value personal personal honor, respect / disrespect more than the written law, including written laws against murder.

Likewise, murder is not always seen as inherently wrong in these cultures- though in modern times, it is punished as such in Appalachia. Rather, it would depend on why the murder was committed.

In short, in honor cultures whether they are in the hills of Appalachia, some mountain areas the world over, or.... the streets of south Chicago, committing murder does not automatically cause some body to lose their status as "honorable".

I get it. We've all seen The Godfather, right? There's plenty of popular culture that explores that type of mindset, plus plenty of real-world examples where crimes (sometimes horrific ones) are committed in the name of "honor".

Still, the US has laws for this kind of thing. And I find it strange that the "honor" culture mindset seems to be being given weight (or justification) considering that (a) the US has legal ways to pursue grievances and (b) both the perp & the victim were integral parts of that legal system -- they were representatives working within that legal system.

It definitely makes for an unusual case, imo.

 

[Parsnip]

In the state where I live sworn officers bypass the metal detectors as they are allowed to bring guns into the courthouse.

JMO

At my local courthouse, like in Letcher County, the Sheriff’s department is responsible for security. They, like the judges, have their own entrance. I have never entered that way, so I cannot speak to the security at that entrance.

All other employees, potential jurors and seated jurors, members of the public, and parties to proceedings must go through a metal detector. There are clear instructions posted before the metal detectors that indicate what you must do if you have a weapon on you and are in possession of a concealed carry permit. Weapons are locked up in the Sheriff’s Department and are returned when you leave the building.

 

[Seattle1]

Curious as to why this lawsuit hasn't been settled?

The case was stayed when the offending Deputy and defendant in the civil suit was criminally indicted by the grand jury late Sept 2022, and not sentenced until Jan 4, 2024 after taking a plea deal. This is not unusual for a Civil case to defer to the criminal prosecution of a defendant. Here, the civil lawsuit was filed 9 months before the deputy was criminally charged. Most recently, following the depositions of Fields (9/11) and Stines (9/16), the Plaintiff Motioned on 9/20 for the case to be sent to Mediation but the Court has not ruled on the Motion. IMO, Settlement is generally the result of Mediation. See my earlier link to Courtlistner.

 

[gitana1]

There is zero new information in this video

Picking up the phone again after the shooting is new news!

"...supplemental disclosures by Plaintiffs...", aka the phones?

Supplemental disclosures means formal, further, written responses/documents in response to discovery requests.

 

[sunshineray]

The case was stayed when the offending Deputy and defendant in the civil suit was criminally indicted by the grand jury late Sept 2022, and not sentenced until Jan 4, 2024 after taking a plea deal. This is not unusual for a Civil case to defer to the criminal prosecution of a defendant. Here, the civil lawsuit was filed 9 months before the deputy was criminally charged. Most recently, following the depositions of Fields (9/11) and Stines (9/16), the Plaintiff Motioned on 9/20 for the case to be sent to Mediation but the Court has not ruled on the Motion. IMO, Settlement is generally the result of Mediation. See my earlier link to Courtlistner.

The article I recently posted said the lawsuit was a federal case? I was under the impression it was a civil case?

 

[vls12345]

The case was stayed when the offending Deputy and defendant in the civil suit was criminally indicted by the grand jury late Sept 2022, and not sentenced until Jan 4, 2024 after taking a plea deal. This is not unusual for a Civil case to defer to the criminal prosecution of a defendant. Here, the civil lawsuit was filed 9 months before the deputy was criminally charged. Most recently, following the depositions of Fields (9/11) and Stines (9/16), the Plaintiff Motioned on 9/20 for the case to be sent to Mediation but the Court has not ruled on the Motion. IMO, Settlement is generally the result of Mediation. See my earlier link to Courtlistner.

Also saw this (BBM):

Fields was charged with multiple felonies and a misdemeanor – including rape and tampering with a monitoring device – and was given a suspended jail sentence as part of a plea deal earlier this year, according to the Mountain Eagle newspaper.

Hill has since died and criminal charges against Fields related to her were dropped, but her estate is continuing to pursue the lawsuit against Field and Stines, court records show.

The lawsuit alleges the sexual allegations against Fields “were not appropriately investigated by Sheriff Stines.”

From:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/21/us/kentucky-community-struggles-sheriff-charged-judge-killing/index.html

 

[MassGuy]

The article I recently posted said the lawsuit was a federal case? I was under the impression it was a civil case?

There are federal civil cases as well (Barry Morphew for example).

 

[Parsnip]

The case was stayed when the offending Deputy and defendant in the civil suit was criminally indicted by the grand jury late Sept 2022, and not sentenced until Jan 4, 2024 after taking a plea deal. This is not unusual for a Civil case to defer to the criminal prosecution of a defendant. Here, the civil lawsuit was filed 9 months before the deputy was criminally charged. Most recently, following the depositions of Fields (9/11) and Stines (9/16), the Plaintiff Motioned on 9/20 for the case to be sent to Mediation but the Court has not ruled on the Motion. IMO, Settlement is generally the result of Mediation. See my earlier link to Courtlistner.

And following the shooting, both parties, in agreement, and through their attorneys, requested a motion to stay proceedings in order to allow for additional discovery, as well as to allow for investigation to proceed wrt the altercation between Judge and Sheriff to proceed, as it may have implications for the suit. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.kyed.97721/gov.uscourts.kyed.97721.117.0.pdf

 

[AugustWest]

The article I recently posted said the lawsuit was a federal case? I was under the impression it was a civil case?

Federal cases can be civil cases. Federal courts, like state courts, come in both criminal and civil flavors. Personal and subject-matter jurisdiction are the requirements for a federal court to consider an action.

See:

subject matter jurisdiction

www.law.cornell.edu

personal jurisdiction

www.law.cornell.edu

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

Saw an article that mentioned no metal detectors at this courthouse. As Sheriff, I would think MS would be allowed his service weapon regardless.

I will say imo (but will go look for the article to link).

ETA:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/21/us/kentucky-community-struggles-sheriff-charged-judge-killing/index.html

Thank you @vls12345 for that reference. It is unfortunate and almost even shocking if no metal detectors or screening was apparently in place, if that was the situation.

The case of a horrid shooting at a New Castle County Delaware courthouse is an example from recent history. And considerable screening changes were implemented shortly thereafter. For anyone entering that courthouse, the entrance differences before and post that incident are stark.

A USA Today / Wilmington, Delaware News Journal online article from February 11, 2013 by Cris Barrish and Melissa Nann Burke entitled ‘3 dead, 2 wounded in Del. courthouse shooting’:

3 dead, 2 wounded in Del. courthouse shooting

Police say Thomas F. Matusiewicz, 68, killed his former daughter-in-law and her friend.

www.usatoday.com

 

[sunshineray]

Picking up the phone again after the shooting is new news!

Supplemental disclosures means formal, further, written responses/documents in response to discovery requests.

So is walking out the side door and coming back in the courthouse's front doors, into the courtroom to place the murder weapon on one of the attorney tables. Does this mean he exited the judge's chambers from a side door or from the anteroom's side door? I wonder if EMT's/LE had to break into the judge's chamber to get to him? Goodness, listening to the Clerk you could tell how devastating it is for him, so tragic </3

 

[Allabouttrial]

And following the shooting, both parties, in agreement, and through their attorneys, requested a motion to stay proceedings in order to allow for additional discovery, as well as to allow for investigation to proceed wrt the altercation between Judge and Sheriff to proceed, as it may have implications for the suit. https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.kyed.97721/gov.uscourts.kyed.97721.117.0.pdf

also from the document which appears directly after the statement above:

---

Additionally, Plaintiff has recently made supplemental disclosures which may lead to theneed to conduct additional discovery

---

 

[sds71]

Here’s the complaint:
AMENDED COMPLAINT First Amended Complaint against All Defendants, filed by Jennifer Hill.(Baxter, Bethany) (Entered: 03/16/2022)

https://storage.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.kyed.97721/gov.uscourts.kyed.97721.17.0.pdf

 

[PrairieWind]

I'm not sure how things are done in Kentucky (I'm in CA so I only know what happens here). In our state you have to go through metal detectors and have your bag searched to even get into the courthouse. Was the sheriff posibly working inside the courthouse when the shooting occured? (thus being able to have a gun?)

If you go to your local Court there in California, you will occasionally see people with guns in uniform. They are deputies. The Sheriff's Office is in charge of security at Courthouses. The Sheriff can pretty much carry his gun anywhere he wants in his county.