I've transcribed the interview with a county clerk that was linked and summarised above by
@Seattle1
Side note - not only does she constantly interrupt people she also doesn't listen. Makes me cringe every time she misinterprets the interviewee.
INTERVIEW WITH THE COUNTY CLERK
21ST SEPTEMBER
BANFIELD - I'm going to bring in Mike Watts, he is the Letcher County Court Clerk and he has known both Judge Mullins and Sheriff Stines for years and considered both men a friend.
This is such an incredibly tragic story and so confusing, Mike thank you for joining me tonight and I'm so sorry for your loss and what your community's going through right now. Can you walk us through the day and the hours leading up to this shooting about what these two men did?
COUNTY CLERK - I have no information at all about what occurred or why it occurred. I know our county is devastated. We've lost two county officials, personal friends of mine. For years, I've worked with both men closely throughout their careers.
BANFIELD - Was there any animosity? was there any acrimony? was there anything that you knew about that did not seem right about the relationship between these two men?
COUNTY CLERK - None at all. None that I knew of. I didn't know of anything that....
BANFIELD - So, Mike, I just detailed that there had been this deposition that the sheriff had sat for about this terrible crime, that one of the sheriff's deputies had pleaded guilty to, and that potentially the judge had some information. Does any of this comport with your knowledge of maybe some consternation between the sheriff and the judge, because this lawsuit was ongoing?
COUNTY CLERK - Not that I know of no, no. I know both men personally, they didn't... either one told me anything that they had a problem with the other, that anything was going on. Both of them has been good for our county and community. The whole county is just devastated over it. Both men have been active in the community.
BANFIELD - Is the whole county, including you, completely confounded by how or why this happened?
COUNTY CLERK - Of course, yes, we all....
BANFIELD - Nobody had a clue?
COUNTY CLERK - No-one has a clue that I know of. We just we're all like everyone else we would just like to know the answer.
BANFIELD - I need to ask you, the local paper said that there's video in the judge's office, perhaps even in chambers, because the local paper says: the video shows what happened and I just laid out that both men looked at their phones right before the shooting, and that the sheriff came around judge Mullen's desk and opened fire eight times - is that accurate? Do you know of the video showing this?
COUNTY CLERK - I know of the video. I've not seen the video so I'm not sure what it shows.
BANFIELD - Have you discussed the video and the contents of the data video with anybody else, court employees, witnesses, anyone else who could corroborate that, yes, indeed, that is what happened?
COUNTY CLERK - That's my understanding.
BANFIELD - So just to be clear, it is your understanding that that is exactly what played out - that the local paper is reporting is shown on a video. You're telling me tonight that that series of events, in your understanding, did play out like that?
COUNTY CLERK - Some of it did, I think, I think, from my understanding, judge Mullins handed the sheriff his phone. The sheriff looked at both phones. He had two phones in each.. one phone in each hand. He reviewed the phones. He laid the judge's phone back down and then stood up.
BANFIELD - They had been seated prior to that when this phone exchange happened?
COUNTY CLERK - Yes.
BANFIELD - And was there an audible argument? Was there yelling? There was some reporting yesterday that they had been arguing. Is that what happened or was it all quiet?
COUNTY CLERK - I don't know. I couldn't answer that. Kentucky state police is investigating the crime, we all are looking for answers. I've not only lost our district judge, but our county sheriff and two personal friends.
BANFIELD - Was the door to chambers open to the staffers in the anteroom.
COUNTY CLERK - No.
BANFIELD - Did those staffers who were in the outside room outside of chambers - did they report hearing anything prior to the shots?
COUNTY CLERK - No argument, no.
BANFIELD - And what about just conversation - was there normal conversation in normal tones prior to the shots?
COUNTY CLERK - They couldn't hear. The sheriff walked in and asked whoever was in the chambers that he needed to speak with the judge in private and the doors were closed.
BANFIELD - And they couldn't hear any other conversation after that, even that there was conversation.
COUNTY CLERK - No, the next thing they heard is gunshots, I think, and they didn't realize if they were from the outside or someone had came in or what, they evacuated the building and then I was informed...
BANFIELD - What did the video show next after the sheriff allegedly fired eight shots, killing judge Mullins?
COUNTY CLERK - Again, I've not seen the video.
BANFIELD - What have you been told it shows?
COUNTY CLERK - That he picked up the phone again, the judge's phone and looked at it and laid it back down and then walked out.
BANFIELD - So after the shots were fired, he did not render assistance, he did not check the judge. He picked up the judge's phone, off the desk again, looked at it, and then walked out of the office.
COUNTY CLERK - From my understanding, again, I've not seen the video.
BANFIELD - What did he say to the people outside the office the moment he came out?
COUNTY CLERK - There was no-one there, I don't think.
BANFIELD - And so, where did he walk to after he left chambers?
COUNTY CLERK - He exited the courthouse.
BANFIELD - He didn't come into contact with anyone in the courthouse until he came outside on the front steps?
COUNTY CLERK - He came out a side entrance, turned and walked back in the front entrance.
BANFIELD - When he walked back in the front entrance, what happened after that? What was he doing going back into the courthouse?
COUNTY CLERK - The first responders were responding of course. They probably thought he was there to assist them, until he walked back in the courthouse, back into the courtroom, it's my understanding, and laid his revolver... or his pistol down on one of the tables.
BANFIELD - At the very front of the courthouse he laid his... is that his service revolver? are you saying it's his service pistol.
COUNTY CLERK - In the courtroom. He walked back in the courtroom, from my understanding. Again, I didn't see the video, so I'm not... it was just my understanding that he walked back in the courtroom and took his pistol out and laid it on top of one of the attorney tables.
BANFIELD - And then surrendered to the responders who were in that courtroom?
COUNTY CLERK - That's my understanding. And can you just tell me again - was it his service pistol, or was it his personal weapon?
COUNTY CLERK - I do not know.
BANFIELD - Was he in uniform?
COUNTY CLERK - He was not.
BANFIELD - Was he on duty?
COUNTY CLERK - He was on duty, 24 hours, 7 days a week. These are both honorable men, these both are honorable. They were elected by the citizens of Letcher County; they both served admirably in their positions they held. Sheriff Stines fought the drug epidemic with everything he had in him. He worked 24 hours, 7 days a week. Judge Mullins was a very strong component of, instead of incarcerating individuals after years being on the bench, he realized that it wasn't working, and he was working along with Sheriff Steins to get people in treatment and give them a second chance.
BANFIELD - So Mike, I'm glad you said that, because one of my big questions has been, because the judge had a different viewpoint on incarcerating people with drug offenses and favored instead rehabilitation. Was that a point of contention between the sheriff and the judge, or did they work together in concert together in that theory?
COUNTY CLERK - They worked together hand in hand. Sheriff Steins would take them to treatment. He would offer people to come into his office and voluntarily go and not be arrested to treatment for drug...
BANFIELD - Do you suspect then, do you suspect, that any consternation that may have led to the shooting, then is likely from the other issue? and that was what the federal lawsuit was about, and the criminal case with the other bailiff and sheriff's deputy, is that what you suspect that this has been about?
COUNTY CLERK - I have no idea. I don't want to speculate. There's two families that's lost loved ones, our county is devastated by this loss. We're a strong mountain community. We've been through a lot. We had a July 2022, flood - devastated the county. Both men delivered supplies to flood victims. I have no idea what happened.
BANFIELD - Mike Walsh, again, I reiterate my condolences to you having lost your friend and then I am so sorry that you're going through this additional trauma of dealing with whatever it was that may have driven the sheriff to do this, I know it's alleged right now but my goodness these facts are troubling. Thank you. I'm going to call on you again, I do appreciate this tonight.
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