Kiomarie and other issues

[seagull65]

On which page of which transcript did she do 'everything except walk LE right up to the spot where the remains were found'? I don't recall reading anything like this. I believe I've asked before for corroboration but maybe you missed it. You're presenting this as a fact and I don't believe it has been established as a fact. Please reply with corroboration of your statement.

Listen again to the part in the interview Lin where KMTC alluded to the woods across the street from the school (that's across Suburban).

 

[Muzikman]

Listen again to the part in the interview Lin where KMTC alluded to the woods across the street from the school (that's across Suburban).

Seagull, if you look at the floodplain map, the front part of the wooded area across from the school is not in the flood plain, and were probably not hard to walk through.

The woods a 1/4 mile down the street, on the other hand, where Caylee was dumped - those are in the flood plain and were most likely not walkable without waders.

 

[lin]

Listen again to the part in the interview Lin where KMTC alluded to the woods across the street from the school (that's across Suburban).

That's the thing, Seagull65, I don't recall any mention of those woods. On which page of which transcript or at approximately which part of which audio is this information? I've listened and read these interviews a few times already and apparently missed the information you read or heard. Please direct us to the approximate page or audio so that we'll all know to what you refer.

 

[seagull65]

On which page of which transcript did she do 'everything except walk LE right up to the spot where the remains were found'? I don't recall reading anything like this. I believe I've asked before for corroboration but maybe you missed it. You're presenting this as a fact and I don't believe it has been established as a fact. Please reply with corroboration of your statement.

(from page 12 in the transcript line 15, where KMTC was talking about the area behind the school and the area of woods across the street from the school.)

KMTC is "A", Det.Wells is "Q" of course:

And most of the kids don’t come down here now because I guess they have the fences and I didn’t know about that. But back in the day this was a hot spot.
Q Okay.
A This is where teenagers or older then us would come out here and back over there um, which is across the street from Hidden Oaks. They used to come back there and do you know mommy and daddy things as we used to call ‘em. And we used to come back here and have picnics and..


(Bolded by me.)
(The remains were found in the woods, across Suburban, that she mentioned to the officer. Of course she did not walk him right up to the exact spot where the remains were. My post was in response to someone who said that KMTC had not been very accurate, that the remains were not close to the areas she had indicated. She was in fact very accurate, short of actually pointing out the exact spot in the woods.)


This question was answered many times already.

 

[Muzikman]

(from page 12 in the transcript line 15, where KMTC was talking about the area behind the school and the area of woods across the street from the school.)

KMTC is "A", Det.Wells is "Q" of course:

And most of the kids don’t come down here now because I guess they have the fences and I didn’t know about that. But back in the day this was a hot spot.
Q Okay.
A This is where teenagers or older then us would come out here and back over there um, which is across the street from Hidden Oaks. They used to come back there and do you know mommy and daddy things as we used to call ‘em. And we used to come back here and have picnics and..


(Bolded by me.)
(The remains were found in the woods, across Suburban, that she mentioned to the officer. Of course she did not walk him right up to the exact spot where the remains were. My post was in response to someone who said that KMTC had not been very accurate, that the remains were not close to the areas she had indicated. She was in fact very accurate, short of actually pointing out the exact spot in the woods.)


This question was answered many times already.

Seagull, as mentioned above Kio was 1/4 mile off.

I think if you've actually been to the school and the dump site, as I have been, you might realize how much of a distance it actually is. It doesn't look like much on Google Maps, but when you're actually there and walking the areas Kio talks about, it's not right across the street.

Hope that helps you!

 

[seagull65]

Seagull, if you look at the floodplain map, the front part of the wooded area across from the school is not in the flood plain, and were probably not hard to walk through.

The woods a 1/4 mile down the street, on the other hand, where Caylee was dumped - those are in the flood plain and were most likely not walkable without waders.

Musikman, now I never said that Kio could have walked him right up to the spot or that she wanted to! ha ha

Not a subject that I was talking about, but in response to your post, on July 19 would there have been any problem with water? Even during wet periods, Caylee's remains were not far from the curb and not too much lower than the curb line.

And they are the same woods.

 

[seagull65]

Seagull, as mentioned above Kio was 1/4 mile off.

I think if you've actually been to the school and the dump site, as I have been, you might realize how much of a distance it actually is. It doesn't look like much on Google Maps, but when you're actually there and walking the areas Kio talks about, it's not right across the street.

Hope that helps you!

I have been there Musikman.

Again, she didn't say the remains site was directly across from the school, she just mentioned the woods that are across from the school. Caylee's remains were in the same woods that are across from the school, the exact spot she was in is, when facing outward from the school looking across Suburban, at the far right end of these woods by the fenceline of the houses. No one said her remains were directly across from the school. She just alluded to these same woods. It's not that big an area. People were searching all over town, this is a small area to search in comparison.

 

[seagull65]

could the silver phone in the picture be a blackjack? I don't know. Anyone recognize the make of phone, is that the nokia? Just curious. Thanks for info!

here are some pictures of blackjacks I found online,
samsung blackjack:

 

[lin]

(from page 12 in the transcript line 15, where KMTC was talking about the area behind the school and the area of woods across the street from the school.)

KMTC is "A", Det.Wells is "Q" of course:

And most of the kids don’t come down here now because I guess they have the fences and I didn’t know about that. But back in the day this was a hot spot.
Q Okay.
A This is where teenagers or older then us would come out here and back over there um, which is across the street from Hidden Oaks. They used to come back there and do you know mommy and daddy things as we used to call ‘em. And we used to come back here and have picnics and..


(Bolded by me.)
(The remains were found in the woods, across Suburban, that she mentioned to the officer. Of course she did not walk him right up to the exact spot where the remains were. My post was in response to someone who said that KMTC had not been very accurate, that the remains were not close to the areas she had indicated. She was in fact very accurate, short of actually pointing out the exact spot in the woods.)


This question was answered many times already.

I did a search of this thread for the phrase "Hidden Oaks" and didn't find any other references that answered the question "many times already" as you allege. Perhaps it was answered "many times already" in other threads. In this thread, that assertion has been disputed by most who posted on the topic.

Please explain how you determine the part you bolded refers to the area or within less than a 1/4 mile of the area where Caylee's remains were found. Cos the way I read it, it simply does not say what you claim it does. Even if you are correct that she references the area, (although that is not the case at all, to my reading), she does NOT suggest Caylee may be there but instead references the area as a place where older kids did 'mommy and daddy things.'

Honestly, Seagull, do you really mean to have us believe that the older children did "mommy and daddy things" in full view of the road, merely several yards from Suburban? Does that sound logical to you? It certainly doesn't sound logical to me. A plain reading of the text you quoted shows us she refers to a private area where older children did private things. One of the glaring things about the remains site is that it was anything but private and many have suggested Casey merely pulled over and tossed Caylee like trash onto the side of the road.

Perhaps it would help you to understand if you checked out some maps of the area. Muzikman has been there and described the area already. I think it may have been our beloved Leila that posted some maps of the area in another thread to disprove this very assertion in another thread. Does anyone recall which thread or where to find those maps so we can close out this issue? TIA

 

[seagull65]

I just don't see the big deal at all. LE would have checked KC records for the call and possible gotten Kio's records and maybe even talked to the other KC. If there was any indication that her story was malicious in intent, I think she would have been charged with something. It seems to me that this has been blown completely out of proportion.

Why would it be completely obvious to you that she could not mistake the 2 KC's? I could see it happening very easily.

I don't get why this is bothering you so much. Do you think that Kio is some how involved? If so, then can you explain what you think she did? If you don't think that she was somehow involved, then can you explain why this particular thing seems to be clawing at you when KC's lies don't seem to be having the same effect?

Nothing is "bothering" or "clawing at" me. ha ha This is just the thread about this particular witness's official statements. There are plenty of threads about Casey's statements, and other witnesses' statements, and like most people here I've followed most of them for more than a year.

No one has made any accusation toward KMTC, this is just the thread for discussing her official statements. Obviously the phone records would have to be obtained to see where they lead.

It goes without saying that witness statements are very central to the case. KMTC called LE offering the information that she had heard Caylee alive on July 9. She offered lots of detail about this call, that the caller (Casey A) had mentioned how they had run into each other at Walmart in April, etc.

When asked by LE for her phone records, she suddenly claimed it had been a different Casey (W) and that Casey W had been talking about moving to live with her mother out of state. KMTC knows very well where Casey A's mom lives and that it's not out of state (just a few doors away from her own family home) so there's no way she would have confused which Casey it was.

KMTC had told her neighbor she'd spoken to Casey A and heard Caylee on July 9. She went as far as to call LE to tell them this. If it's not true, then why had she originally wanted LE to think it was? I don't know yet.

I'm glad she called LE and look forward to seeing where the phone records lead.

p.s. it's a little ironic because KMTC was claiming Casey is bipolar because she would call and not remember the things she had asked the day before. Maybe KMTC is the one with the phone amnesia?

 

[sleutherontheside]

If it helps anyone here....I drove by the site in July of THIS year. I was leaving for a trip out of Orlando and took alittle trip over to that area to see it in person. In July, a good 8 months after the remains had been identified there was such thick and dense vegetation that you could not walk in more than 8 feet from the curb without falling down into a low spot. The area where the remains were found are much closer to Hopespring than to the school. And FWIW, the school busses access the back entry at the end of Suburban for drop off and pick up. THe more likely description of wood "behind the school" would be to the east of the school. The woods at the cul de sac at the end of the road are in fact sparse and easier to navigate on foot. The area where remains were found are like a jungle of weeds and that is AFTER all the excavation of the site and are so much further down the road on the access that I don't even see "behind" as a way to describe them as it is quite literally BEFORE you get to the school.. In December of 2008 it is likely that the area had been undisturbed for quite a while. It also has a dank and damp smell as the ground is perpetually wet. I took a photo but it was so blurred I never posted it. I will go look for it now.

 

[lin]

actually she mentioned the woods across from the school on Suburban, the remains were eventually found in these woods. She did everything except walk LE right up to the spot where the remains were found.

not to mention that KMTC also told LE on that early date, July 19, where to look for the body. She was too accurate for us not to think her statements were important, especially combined with the change in her official statement when asked for her phone records.

When I posted earlier on this thread that who knows, maybe KMTC's phone record could lead to the missing blackjack (Casey A's alleged lost phone that she spoke to the babysitter on), someone here posted authoritatively that that was nonsense because "the blackjack is a myth!" If anyone sees a blackjack in any of the photos with Caylee/Casey, could you please post the photos here. Much appreciated. I don't know what this kind of phone looks like! I ask because I've heard some posters say they thought they recalled seeing a blackjack in one or two of the pictures, I just don't know what to look for. Thanks guys!

In her conversation with the detective (there are links on page 1 of this thread for the audio and transcripts), KMTC not only talked about the "hideout" area behind the school, she and the detective walked along the fenced areas of woods and she also alluded to the woods across from the school on Suburban.

Those are the woods where the remains were finally found.
She did everything but walk LE right up to the spot (granted, that she didn't do! )

Musikman, now I never said that Kio could have walked him right up to the spot or that she wanted to! ha ha

Not a subject that I was talking about, but in response to your post, on July 19 would there have been any problem with water? Even during wet periods, Caylee's remains were not far from the curb and not too much lower than the curb line.

And they are the same woods.

BBM - font color red and blue by me.

Reply to highlighted in blue font: Yeah, you kinda did; repeatedly. The examples above are just from this page and the one prior. There are likely more if anyone wanted to look.

You have again asserted that "they are the same woods." This is NOT a fact. It may be your opinion, to which you are entitled but it should not be stated as if it were fact; and that's my opinion.

 

[seagull65]

I did a search of this thread for the phrase "Hidden Oaks" and didn't find any other references that answered the question "many times already" as you allege. Perhaps it was answered "many times already" in other threads. In this thread, that assertion has been disputed by most who posted on the topic.

Please explain how you determine the part you bolded refers to the area or within less than a 1/4 mile of the area where Caylee's remains were found. Cos the way I read it, it simply does not say what you claim it does. Even if you are correct that she references the area, (although that is not the case at all, to my reading), she does NOT suggest Caylee may be there but instead references the area as a place where older kids did 'mommy and daddy things.'

Honestly, Seagull, do you really mean to have us believe that the older children did "mommy and daddy things" in full view of the road, merely several yards from Suburban? Does that sound logical to you? It certainly doesn't sound logical to me. A plain reading of the text you quoted shows us she refers to a private area where older children did private things. One of the glaring things about the remains site is that it was anything but private and many have suggested Casey merely pulled over and tossed Caylee like trash onto the side of the road.

Perhaps it would help you to understand if you checked out some maps of the area. Muzikman has been there and described the area already. I think it may have been our beloved Leila that posted some maps of the area in another thread to disprove this very assertion in another thread. Does anyone recall which thread or where to find those maps so we can close out this issue? TIA

Lin, you asked where KMTC mentioned the woods across Suburban, and I already answered your question. It's right in the interviews which were posted on page 1 and we've let you know that many times.

I'm sorry, I'm not playing your game anymore. I don't know what you're talking about with the rest of your post. I'm not interested in the distance from the school to the remains, etc, I know it's the same woods and how accurate KMTC was in mentioning these areas to LE. Back to topic I hope.

If you want maps you can find them very easily on Zillow, for example. Zillow.com Just put in 4701 Hopespring for example, and zoom out.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Kiomarie-
Waste of time, huge waste of time. Lots of people overstate the importance of their contacts with someone being investigated for a crime, then reconsider when faced with the prospect of having every phone record,every statement dissected for accuracy. Or maybe her memory was just faulty. It happens. I'm not sure I could have total recall of when friends call me... This topic has been analyzed to death..

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Casey is driving around with a decomposing child in the trunk of her car, so rotten that an imprint is left in the trunk .... graphic but factual.

 

[ZsaZsa]

could the silver phone in the picture be a blackjack? I don't know. Anyone recognize the make of phone, is that the nokia? Just curious. Thanks for info!

here are some pictures of blackjacks I found online,
samsung blackjack:

There was no Blackjack. Every single thing she stated to the Police on that day was a lie. What makes you think that she would tell the truth about this one thing? She has NO credibility.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Also FWIW, the "woods" nearest school are in fact lots of trees with little worn paths as evidenced by Google earth. The area of the remains was more dense vegetation and foliage. How any kids partied in that area is beyond me as it looks like a freaking "swamp". I think Semantics are getting everyone up in arms here. My suggestion is that everyone take a look and determine if you would party in the woods or the swamp. Peace.

 

[seagull65]

Also FWIW, the "woods" nearest school are in fact lots of trees with little worn paths as evidenced by Google earth. The area of the remains was more dense vegetation and foliage. How any kids partied in that area is beyond me as it looks like a freaking "swamp". I think Semantics are getting everyone up in arms here. My suggestion is that everyone take a look and determine if you would party in the woods or the swamp. Peace.

ha ha, I know

there's just a little grassy area from the curb, then undergrowth and trees, (small palms and vines among trees, fallen trees, etc). You can walk into it, but it's not forest like people from up north might imagine. Mostly people don't go into undergrowth like that in the southeast because of snakes, etc. The end of that swath of woods along Suburban, where the remains were found, near the houses, had a small entrance kind of diagonally into the "woods", where RK walked in and where Caylee's remains were, for example.

 

[magic-cat]

Here is a fairly decent shot of where the remains were found...

 

[magic-cat]

actually she mentioned the woods across from the school on Suburban, the remains were eventually found in these woods. She did everything except walk LE right up to the spot where the remains were found.

The woods that she took LE to were not even near where Caylee was found. She took them down close to the school and that was a quite a ways down the road there, not nearby, not even in sight...The woods "across from the school" could mean right on one side or the other, or behind, that is also across...she took LE nowhere near where Caylee was actually found.

 

[magic-cat]

I think equating those woods as "the same woods" is like saying that a mountain over in another county from me that is the same mountain range without ending in between is the same "mountains"...it IS the same mountains, but not the same location or area...