Kiomarie and other issues

[Oakley]

But the thing was, Kiomarie thought that Caylee was dead and buried - not that Caylee was alive. So why rush to tell LE this only 4 days into the case when there were only suspicions. It's hard for me to understand making such an impetuous decision about a so-called "best friend" at that point.

"Impetuous?" So the child had been missing 35 days at that point, there was smell of death in her car, Kiomarie is putting 2 + 2 together from her knowledge of Casey's past behaviour... If it were ME, I would sure as H3LL "rush" to call LE with what I knew, friend or no friend!

 

[magic-cat]

Beat me to the punch. I was thinking the same thing.

PR brought up an interesting issue. I like things that make me think and recheck things. Which we did. But it seems that everything has been covered. Nothing wronge with having different opinion.

Yep yep! Let us agree to disagree...or disagree to agree...whichever, I think we have beat this horse almost to death...

I personally harbor NO suspicions about Kio. I think she, as so many others, was just swept away in the tidal wave that is Casey Anthony and her ocean of lies. She, as so many, is only involved in this because she:
A) Grew up around Casey.
B) Had a friendship with Casey in Middle School that sort of fizzled out after that
C) Knows about Caseys lies.
D) Felt she might have information about a potential dumping/burial site based on knowing and growing up around Casey.
E) Could have no children of her own and was involved due to having discussed adoption of Caylee with Casey.
F) Perhaps wanted to grab her own moment of fame, thus the selling of the story to National Enquirer.
G)Has nothing else to gain or lose by having told what she knows. After all, I seriously doubt she ever plans to be friends with Casey again...not ater all this.

 

[cecybeans]

If I suspected that my high school "best friend" had killed and buried her own child, the first thing I would do is get myself to the nearest police station to tell them what I know. But maybe that's just me... well me and Kiomarie. The girl I was "best friends" with in high school became wild and got into drugs and had several kids with several men. It was her change in lifestyle that made me back away from her. We were closer than sisters when we were younger, but she changed. It happens. I suspect this is what happened to Kiomarie and KC. It's because they were best friends when they were younger, that Kio knows her so well. But it doesn't mean that she is blind to the way KC is. But this is just MOO.

We haven't heard from a single family member (much less a friend), however they knew or had interacted with KC, that all didn't admit or believe she was (in JG's terms "diabolical") a pathological liar (not to mention a thief).

I don't think it's a big stretch for anyone who knew her well to see that she did not enjoy being a single mom - regardless of the help she was given at home. If my bff today never reported her child missing (and it took an intervention by someone else to have it come to light a month later), and I knew that she'd had doubts about having the child, and I learned she was out partying around the whole time - and particularly if I knew she was a liar, I'd assume the worst too. When this story broke, it didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that trunk decomp + missing toddler + party animal = dead child. To see it any other way would require Herculean effort in suspending disbelief.

 

[magnumsmom]

Hey! Can I hitch a ride to the cop shop, with you'uns?

Of course. Anytime!

 

[lin]

Well, I was hoping this article would be helpful, but this brings up even more questions - it seems that the shovel was taken by LE on Thursday July 17, 2008 and reported the same day which means KMTC read about it or heard about it on the news and made her decision then.

I guess we'll have to wait for the trial to understand what exactly happened and how she came to that conclusion so quickly.

I really don't mean to heighten your concerns but in the interest of making sure we're dealing with facts in discussing, it's a bit more complex than that. The shovel was reported on or before July 17th. Kio's first transcript is dated July 19th. Somewhere in between she met with a Mr. Bailey and discussed things with him. It was Mr. Bailey who convinced Kio to contact LE.

My understanding of the transcript is that Detective Wells verified this with Mr. Bailey who had many good things to say about Kio. Now that I've written this out, to my mind, it seems a bit more understandable, maybe, that Kio had these concerns and didn't go straight to LE but to someone who 'was more of a father than her own father' and whom she clearly trusted. Maybe the theory of Caylee having been buried wasn't something she came to totally on her own, kwim? An older and wiser head was, in a sense, at least an intermediate step before going to LE.

 

[lin]

Bailey told Kio about the shovel and maybe about the whole issue, so fwiw, she may have known prior to it being released in the media.

Page 10

"Q Um, what or how was it that you came about calling me tonight?
A Okay. I came to visit my father, who’s in town from California.
Q Okay.
A Who’s actually the person who did call me, but I’ll get to that later. Um, my friend Bailey lives right down the street and I went to go see him and visit him while my dad was in the shower. (Inaudible)...
Q Down the street from...
A Um, my dad’s house he lives at 4860 Hopespring Drive. And Bailey lives...
Q What’s his name?
A My dad’s name?
Q Uh-huh. (Affirmative)
A Is Raphael Torres.
Q Okay. Gotcha.
A Uh-huh. (Affirmative)
Q Alright.
A And then um, Bailey lives.. oh gees, it’s right next to the mailbox. It’s the pink house is I guess you could say.
Q Same street Hopespring Drive?
A Same street, it’s about maybe two or three houses away from Casey’s house.
Q Okay."

Page 11

"A And he owns his own carpet cleaning services and I figured I’d stop by to say hi to him ‘cause I’ve known him for years. And I love his, his wife and him they’re just beautiful people. And I‘d gone in there and we were talking about life and everything. And he had asked me, do you remember Casey? And I said yeah I talked to her a few weeks ago. And we started talking about the issue he goes, well if you know about stuff you need to call somebody let somebody know. And I was like, well I was just (Inaudible)... you know. You know I figure what the heck whatever. And he was like, no don’t talk to her ‘cause she’s, she’s has.. she’s having issues and she’ll start a fight. Um, you need to talk a detective, you need to talk to an investigator. And he had mentioned that Brian um, had seen a detective about a shovel or something I don’t know. whatever.
Q Did he tell you anything about the shovel or...
A All I know about the shovel was that he said that the shovel belonged to him that Casey borrowed it.
Q Okay.
A That’s all I know .
Q Okay.
A Other then that the that’s pretty much that’s where it was left and I was like, okay well I guess she borrowed a shovel.
Q Right.
A you know. So, it kind of made me laugh a little bit and then um, he contacted Brian and Brian in turn gave him the phone number and the name your name.
Q Right.
A And then I got the phone number and stuff information from him and then I called you. It’s a big tree basically."

Pages 10 and 11 of this pdf.

 

[JBean]

if you personally think the horse is dead, don't beat it. Takes 2 or more to give a horse a good shellacking, imo.

if you think a post is worth responding to, then do. if you don't think it is then don't respond.


If there are any posts that state fact incorrectly, please alert on them specifically.

thanks.

as always where this post lands on the thread has no bearing on to whom it is directed. It is for everybody.

 

[lin]

No, I don't feel that my question is convincingly answered so far. I feel that if KMTC just wanted to back off from Casey she would have remained silent and observed from a distance until it became absolutely obvious that Caylee was dead or until such time as LE asked to speak to her. What I keep thinking is this: Once you accuse someone of murder, there is NO going back. You can count on your friendship being over forever, to say the very least. KMTC was willing to make that accusation about her "best friend" from high school 4 days into the case, before we knew about the chloroform, before we knew about the hair with the deathband and before we knew about the outcome of the odor analysis. I really want to know what the backstory is that made KMTC change her mind so very quickly from being willing to loan Casey $150 on July 9 (at least KMTC claimed she though it was Casey A initially) to thinking she was a murderess on July 19. Hopefully all of this will be cleared up at trial.

I think I'll take a cue from Brini here and agree to disagree on this point. To many, myself included, the smell of death along with the 31 days made it very obvious. Even many that held out hope, iirc, mentioned that they realized that hope was very slim.

ETA: ...and a cue from Spangle, magic-cat and the others who are agreeing to disagree. I could be wrong here but I do recall some held out hope until the very, very last minute; the day Caylee was identified by Dr. G. Coming from that type of a perspective, I can understand how someone may question the actions of others who were unable to hold out that hope just as I was able to question or disagree those who did, kwim?

 

[lin]

Hey! Can I hitch a ride to the cop shop, with you'uns?

Pick me up on the way!

 

[lin]

Were I in my right mind, my family and friends all know my children come first and whatever information they can bring to the table would be appreciated, even a childhood hangout or suspicions that may tend to incriminate me.

However, IF my child was missing, it would be reported within minutes, this I know for a fact because I've done it twice. Once my son had wandered all the way next door and the other he hadn't actually left the house but it was soon after the first incident and I immediately lost my mind fearing he had wandered again. I called the local sheriff on both occasions while in one of the worst mental nightmares I can imagine; almost petrified with fear of where he could be; what could have happened; what could be happening now; would I ever see him again???? I can tell you without a doubt when my child was missing, I had absolutely no reservations about calling LE for help. I'd have called the national guard if he had been gone a minute longer, probably. In that situation, it just doesn't seem to me that anyone could think of anything other than getting their child back. And I mean anything. Not possible legal ramifications for neglect; not possible dismay from near perfect hubby, family, friends; not anything other than finding that child.

If 31 days elapsed without my reporting my child missing, I would expect all of my family, including my own mother and adult daughters, sisters, brothers, cousins and friends to race each other to LE to try to help my children. Something must be very, very wrong with me and they need to take care of the children before tending to my issues.

I think a lot of parents have had a child missing a moment or two and had that fear jump at them briefly; maybe not long enough to become fully formed. Maybe a few other parents have lost a child in a store and know that fear. Or maybe, like me, had a child wander away for a very short time and died a thousand deaths in the minutes it took to locate him. I don't think there will be a parent on that jury that can understand the 31 days of not reporting to LE; not mentioning to a family member or another living soul that Caylee was missing.

I certainly don't expect those that actually knew Caylee and cared about her to be more concerned about her mother and preserving that old relationship than they are about Caylee and finding the truth about what happened to her. As JBean pointed out earlier in the thread, that 31 days may have been all it took to cause Kio to think the worst. I know that pretty much did it for me.

 

[celticthyme]

Were I in my right mind, my family and friends all know my children come first and whatever information they can bring to the table would be appreciated, even a childhood hangout or suspicions that may tend to incriminate me.

However, IF my child was missing, it would be reported within minutes, this I know for a fact because I've done it twice.
If 31 days elapsed without my reporting my child missing, I would expect all of my family, including my own mother and adult daughters, sisters, brothers, cousins and friends to race each other to LE to try to help my children. Something must be very, very wrong with me and they need to take care of the children before tending to my issues.
SNIP
I think a lot of parents have had a child missing a moment or two and had that fear jump at them briefly; maybe not long enough to become fully formed. Maybe a few other parents have lost a child in a store and know that fear.
I certainly don't expect those that actually knew Caylee and cared about her to be more concerned about her mother and preserving that old relationship than they are about Caylee and finding the truth about what happened to her. As JBean pointed out earlier in the thread, that 31 days may have been all it took to cause Kio to think the worst. I know that pretty much did it for me.

Exactly ! Me too.
Any parent who has lost sight of their child in the grocery store for more than 5 minutes go immediately into panic mode . . and the terror begins.
There is just NO EXPLAINING the lack of normal response of Cindy et al when they learned there had been no Caylee for 31 days . . . to not go ballistic is just not normal. There will be parents on this jury! It is a given and I can not imagine how any attorney, or the prisoner herself will in any way begin to find an excuse to explain this. (Of course Casey already knew the baby was dead because she killed her.) She'd had time to adjust, but the rest of the family????
Still makes me sick to my stomach . .

 

[cecybeans]

If 31 days elapsed without my reporting my child missing, I would expect all of my family, including my own mother and adult daughters, sisters, brothers, cousins and friends to race each other to LE to try to help my children. Something must be very, very wrong with me and they need to take care of the children before tending to my issues.

respectfully snipped by me

I would hope that my family had duct-taped me to a chair with no food or water and either beaten or drugged the truth out of me. Because I would either be the craziest or the most sociopathic mommy to have done something like that.

You're right, Lin, it's all in the 31 days. And I hate it when the news says "31 days before she reported her daughter missing" sometimes. I think they should all say "31 days before she was caught lying".

 

[Snaz]

respectfully snipped by me

I would hope that my family had duct-taped me to a chair with no food or water and either beaten or drugged the truth out of me. Because I would either be the craziest or the most sociopathic mommy to have done something like that.

You're right, Lin, it's all in the 31 days. And I hate it when the news says "31 days before she reported her daughter missing" sometimes. I think they should all say "31 days before she was caught lying".

BBM

I hate it, too, because SHE never did report Caylee missing..... Cindy did. And I believe KC never would have reported her missing have if Cindy hadn't caught up with her and forced her hand. Actually, she may have eventually had to say something because you just can't hide a 2 year old forever.

But sadly, I think if Cindy had thought BEFORE she placed that 911 call, she would have never made the call either.

 

[nyvictoria]

Exactly ! Me too.
Any parent who has lost sight of their child in the grocery store for more than 5 minutes go immediately into panic mode . . and the terror begins.
There is just NO EXPLAINING the lack of normal response of Cindy et al when they learned there had been no Caylee for 31 days . . . to not go ballistic is just not normal. There will be parents on this jury! It is a given and I can not imagine how any attorney, or the prisoner herself will in any way begin to find an excuse to explain this. (Of course Casey already knew the baby was dead because she killed her.) She'd had time to adjust, but the rest of the family????
Still makes me sick to my stomach . .

Off topic but...

I had a horrible experience when my son was about 3 yrs old. We were in a department store, waiting for the elevator. He was out of his stroller, standing next to me. The elevator doors opened and my son ran in. Before I could maneuver the stroller, the doors closed. My son was in the elevator without me! I was frozen with fear, couldn't breathe, couldn't think. Fortunately, a very nice woman saw what happened. She ran over to me and pointed out the elevator was going up. She told me to run upstairs to meet him at the elevator. In the off chance I missed him on the second floor, she stayed on the first floor and sent her friend to the basement (in case the elevator ended up there). I ran up the down escalator to the second floor and got there just as the doors were opening. My son was standing in the elevator all alone, fine as could be without a care in the world and I was a wreck. I was never so relieved in my life. Needless to say, I never, ever again let go of his hand in a store. I felt terribly guilty and had nightmares for weeks. I thought I was the most irresponsible mother in the world. Just typing this, I can feel the anxiety I felt that day. I'm so grateful to that woman who had the sense to tell me what to do.

Casey never shed a tear (except the fake ones for herself). She never asked how the search was going. She never did a single solitary thing any normal, caring parent would do. There simply is no excuse. She's GUILTY!

 

[lin]

Off topic but...

I had a horrible experience when my son was about 3 yrs old. We were in a department store, waiting for the elevator. He was out of his stroller, standing next to me. The elevator doors opened and my son ran in. Before I could maneuver the stroller, the doors closed. My son was in the elevator without me! I was frozen with fear, couldn't breathe, couldn't think. Fortunately, a very nice woman saw what happened. She ran over to me and pointed out the elevator was going up. She told me to run upstairs to meet him at the elevator. In the off chance I missed him on the second floor, she stayed on the first floor and sent her friend to the basement (in case the elevator ended up there). I ran up the down escalator to the second floor and got there just as the doors were opening. My son was standing in the elevator all alone, fine as could be without a care in the world and I was a wreck. I was never so relieved in my life. Needless to say, I never, ever again let go of his hand in a store. I felt terribly guilty and had nightmares for weeks. I thought I was the most irresponsible mother in the world. Just typing this, I can feel the anxiety I felt that day. I'm so grateful to that woman who had the sense to tell me what to do.

Casey never shed a tear (except the fake ones for herself). She never asked how the search was going. She never did a single solitary thing any normal, caring parent would do. There simply is no excuse. She's GUILTY!

How long did that nightmare last? Two minutes? And you relive it almost as strongly as when in the moment every time you think of it.

Most people care more about their pets who may have wandered off than KC did about her own child that was supposedly "missing."

 

[lin]

respectfully snipped by me

I would hope that my family had duct-taped me to a chair with no food or water and either beaten or drugged the truth out of me. Because I would either be the craziest or the most sociopathic mommy to have done something like that.

You're right, Lin, it's all in the 31 days. And I hate it when the news says "31 days before she reported her daughter missing" sometimes. I think they should all say "31 days before she was caught lying".

And if I ever regained my senses, I'd be mad if they didn't do all that!!

 

[nyvictoria]

How long did that nightmare last? Two minutes? And you relive it almost as strongly as when in the moment every time you think of it.

Most people care more about their pets who may have wandered off than KC did about her own child that was supposedly "missing."

Exactly!! I despise her!

(it was no more than a minute or two but it felt like hours)

 

[Leila]

To me, it's not a question of right or wrong, it's more a question of the amount of time that had elapsed and the small amount of information that was available at the time. KMTC had not even spoken to Casey. No one knew how evasive Casey was being. There was little to no evidence revealed yet. I don't think KMTC ever smelled the car, so she would be going off of George, Cindy and Lee's info about that - if there was any.

There was quite a bit of information in those first few days. On July 15th George and Cindy picked up the car at the impound yard, and later that evening Cindy found Casey at TL's apartment and dragged her home. Later that night Cindy made the lst 911 call and stated that the car smells like a dead body was in it.

In the wee hours of the 16th, and later that morning, LE accompanied Casey to the Sawgrass Apartments and later to her "job" at Universal. Late that afternoon, Casey was arrested and charged with child neglect, obstruction of justice, and lying to police officers. I remember seeing this on the news and I think Nancy Grace started her coverage of the Anthony case that day or the next.

The next day, July 17th, LE investigated the Anthony backyard, bringing in cadaver dogs.

The next day, Friday, July 18th, George and Cindy had a sit-down interview in their home with a local news media. During that interview the talked about child safety in their home, talking about Casey using a shovel to remove bamboo shoots, how the lock the shed, and how they always have the pool ladder up when not in use.

Over that weekend, on Saturday, July 19th, Cindy and JB did an interview with Geraldo, and on Monday, the 21st, Cindy did an interview with Greta Van Susteran. Tuesday, the 22nd, was the bond hearing.

I remember that during those first few days, we knew quite a bit about the case. We had many many threads going here on WS about this case. First and foremost, we knew that Caylee had been missing 31 days before her grandmother reported her missing. We knew that Casey had lied about the nanny, her job, and that she had stolen money from people. We watched the police in the Anthony backyard looking for evidence and bringing in cadaver dogs. I remember there was a webcam on the Anthony house and we had a thread here on the backyard search. We watched George and Cindy's interview - and came away from it knowing that something was really wrong, as they didn't act like distraught grandparents. We watched her interview with Geraldo.

If we, who never knew the Anthony family before news of Caylee's disappearance made national headlines, knew as much as we did about the case, I imagine someone who knew Casey probably knew a whole lot more.

I'm sure when the news of Caylee's disappearance made the local news, those who knew Casey were burning up the telephone wires calling each other......."Hey, did you hear about Casey!" They shared what they knew, and there was probably a lot of gossiping going on about who Casey's new boyfriend was, etc.

Remember Casey's call home the day she was arrested? Her friend, Christina, got on the phone and crying said, "Casey, if anything's happened to Caylee I'll just die!"

I think Christina is a good example of the reaction of Casey's friends. They were upset! I don't think it's unusual for someone who knew Casey, to reach the conclusion Kio did in just a few days. I suspect there were more people who knew Casey who had also reached the same conclusion.

 

[Jolynna]

There was quite a bit of information in those first few days. On July 15th George and Cindy picked up the car at the impound yard, and later that evening Cindy found Casey at TL's apartment and dragged her home. Later that night Cindy made the lst 911 call and stated that the car smells like a dead body was in it.

In the wee hours of the 16th, and later that morning, LE accompanied Casey to the Sawgrass Apartments and later to her "job" at Universal. Late that afternoon, Casey was arrested and charged with child neglect, obstruction of justice, and lying to police officers. I remember seeing this on the news and I think Nancy Grace started her coverage of the Anthony case that day or the next.

The next day, July 17th, LE investigated the Anthony backyard, bringing in cadaver dogs.

The next day, Friday, July 18th, George and Cindy had a sit-down interview in their home with a local news media. During that interview the talked about child safety in their home, talking about Casey using a shovel to remove bamboo shoots, how the lock the shed, and how they always have the pool ladder up when not in use.

Over that weekend, on Saturday, July 19th, Cindy and JB did an interview with Geraldo, and on Monday, the 21st, Cindy did an interview with Greta Van Susteran. Tuesday, the 22nd, was the bond hearing.

I remember that during those first few days, we knew quite a bit about the case. We had many many threads going here on WS about this case. First and foremost, we knew that Caylee had been missing 31 days before her grandmother reported her missing. We knew that Casey had lied about the nanny, her job, and that she had stolen money from people. We watched the police in the Anthony backyard looking for evidence and bringing in cadaver dogs. I remember there was a webcam on the Anthony house and we had a thread here on the backyard search. We watched George and Cindy's interview - and came away from it knowing that something was really wrong, as they didn't act like distraught grandparents. We watched her interview with Geraldo.

If we, who never knew the Anthony family before news of Caylee's disappearance made national headlines, knew as much as we did about the case, I imagine someone who knew Casey probably knew a whole lot more.

I'm sure when the news of Caylee's disappearance made the local news, those who knew Casey were burning up the telephone wires calling each other......."Hey, did you hear about Casey!" They shared what they knew, and there was probably a lot of gossiping going on about who Casey's new boyfriend was, etc.

Remember Casey's call home the day she was arrested? Her friend, Christina, got on the phone and crying said, "Casey, if anything's happened to Caylee I'll just die!"

I think Christina is a good example of the reaction of Casey's friends. They were upset! I don't think it's unusual for someone who knew Casey, to reach the conclusion Kio did in just a few days. I suspect there were more people who knew Casey who had also reached the same conclusion.

BBM

I agree. Tony had been sharing a bed with KC for over 30 days. He let her use his car. He'd been saying the L-word.

He heard 31 days and dumped KC like a hot potato. I don't blame him. KC's behavior and refusal to cooperate with LE defied explanation. It was repulsive.

By July 17, 2008, the media had told the public that KC didn't have a job and that there wasn't a Zanny. KC had been arrested for not cooperating with the investigation.

I find Kio's going to LE and Tony's dumping KC appropriate responses to the situation as it went down. Kio didn't rat KC out. Kio told what she knew to help LE find Caylee, (the helpless child).

As Marc Klaas has said over and over again, you can't be too transparent when you have a missing child. You can't give up too much information when investigators are grabbing at each and every tidbit they can get their hand's on. Nobody should ever protect a buddy, give that buddy a heads up, or do ANYTHING other than run to LE when a baby's life is on the line.

imo

 

[Oakley]

There was quite a bit of information in those first few days.
I think Christina is a good example of the reaction of Casey's friends. They were upset! I don't think it's unusual for someone who knew Casey, to reach the conclusion Kio did in just a few days. I suspect there were more people who knew Casey who had also reached the same conclusion.

(Respectfully snipped.)

Beautifully stated! :clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: