Knowing all you know today about this case who do you think really killed JonBenet?

[Linda7NJ]

Yes they did throw everybody under the bus. In one of PR's interviews, (police I think), she was telling of the events that day and she mentioned the flurry of activity surrounding LHP. IMO, this was who PR initially planned to frame. And she was the perfect scapegoat wasn't she? She had a key, knew the house, knew where everything was so need to bring murder supplies, was having financial problems, had questionable family members, might have known about JR's bonus. IMO, PR was probably surprised and PO'd when her naming LHP wasn't enough. She probably thought her word against LHP's would be enough, case closed. moo

I am steadfast a Ramsey did it.

But let me just say, if I were truly innocent, and this happened to my child.... I would be suspicious of everyone. It HAD to be someone intimately familiar with their home. IMO

Throwing everyone they knew under the bus is the only thing that they did that makes any sorta sense to me.


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[BOESP]

Courtesy of http://www.acandyrose.com/s-evidence-ransom-note.htm

2000-04-11: �JonBenet, Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation�
by Steve Thomas and Don Davis, April 11, 2000

ST Page 200

"One thing we managed to keep from them for a while was that the lab analysts had a partial print from the ransom note. However, it didn't belong to the killer but to Chet Ubowski of the Colorado Bureau of Investigation, who handled the note during his examination. The only print identified on that note belonged to the document examiner.

There was no indication that an intruder had ever touched the ransom note. And it seemed odd to us that no prints were on the note from either of the parents, who presumably would have handled it and even gripped it tightly.

But lab analysts did identify seven latent fingerprints on the tablet from which the ransom note came. None of them belonged to an intruder. One belonged to Sergeant Whitson, who handled the tablet on the morning of December 26. A second belonged to CBI's Ubowski. The remaining five fingerprints were Patricia Ramsey's."

ETA: if you have time, click the above candyrose link for more interesting comments on the ransom note.
​

 

[InstantProof]

many conflicting versions in the first interview(s)

she never read the entire RN, not even during that day while it (a copy) was in the sunroom. she read the beginning, the signature and "might have glanced and seen the $18,000. I just couldn't bear to read it"

This strikes me as very suspicious. The note was the only clue and I would have read it 100 times. If it was written by someone she knew, she may have had an idea from reading the whole letter.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

True, but we see parents every day who lie about murdering their children, and they do go into damage control to protect themselves. Say PR did it, but it wasn't something she intended...maybe 'normal' punishment that escalated that night. How would she explain this battered body to a hospital? A hole and long crack in her skull, prior vaginal injuries and I don't know what else, bruises etc, I guess. After calming down enough to assess her situation and looking at JB in an unconscious, battered heap, what would we expect somebody like PR to do? I think the grand jury got the abuse part right, so IMO, this probably wasn't the 1st time PR hurt JB... IMO, ongoing abusers get good at lying, manipulating, blaming the victim, justifying and covering for themselves. So, an abuser wouldn't have the same shocked reactions that a non abuser would. They become desensitized...they've kind of been preparing for such a moment, so to speak. Anyway, this is based on the rage theory, which IMO, is a reasonable theory...except for the strangulation causing death, that is. How can that be explained except as cold blooded murder? moo

I completely agree with you. My scenario consists strictly of the non abuser non murdering mother viewpoint.

 

[LinasK]

I believe now as I've always believed that John was abusing JB and that she died during the abuse. John panicked and went upstairs to Patsy and told her that JB was dead and that he thought Burke did it. Patsy, not knowing the truth about the sexual abuse, believed John.

John then convinced her to help with the cover-up including writing the ransom note and hiding the body. They were up all night figuring out what to do.

JB was sexually abused. It's noted in the autopsy report.

This is what I have believed all along too.

 

[MaybeNotToday]

This is what I have believed all along too.

Does Burke have a relationship with his father now? Or do we know? I read the interview in the dad after DNA supposedly cleared him. I don't remember if he mentioned Burke?

 

[questfortrue]

This is what I have believed all along too.

In his radio broadcast last February Peter Boyles called JR the ”Albert Speer” of the crime. If any know the history of the Holocaust, Albert Speer was Hitler’s right hand man who helped keep the “wheels” of the persecution of the Jews going, even though the war was lost. Afterwards, when war criminals were captured, Speer made every effort to show he didn’t even know about the final efforts to continue and hide the extermination of the Jews. (It was a big fat lie). But Speer came out of the situation pretty good and was spared the death penalty. He even wrote a memoir.

When I have read the thoughts about JR really being somewhat of “an innocent bystander” to PR’s or BR’s murderous rage, or possibly only somehow just making an instant decision that late morning (?) of the 26th to help PR, imo and respectfully, I’ve some niggling issues with that idea. And I also begin to have a sense about Boyle’s comparison.

Starting with the 911 call that morning, while I haven’t heard the voices at the end, others have. There is a significant change of vocal intonation after PR thinks she has hung up the phone. Assuredly, JR and PR had been married long enough that he knew why her tone changed.

There are also the lies to LE about when he was in the basement (at least 3 times it turns out) and his false allegations about what he moved down there.

Later there was the request to PP to retrieve his golf clubs from the basement. Middle of winter and ya’ need the golf clubs.

JR was also heard muttering, as though speaking to JB, “I’m so sorry, I’m so sorry” at his friends’ home after the homicide. When asked what he was sorry about, he said he was sorry he did not protect JB. Innocent apology or does he know exactly what happened to JB? IIRC, JR was the first one in his family to be “lawyered up,” and his lawyers were hot on the tail of FW. Why?

Finally, we have the mystery of the garotte and the black fibers from the inside of JB’s new size 12 bloomies.

I dunno, (the extent of his involvement) but just can’t give JR a free pass. All moo.

 

[madeleine]

Most parents of missing/murdered children usually have some sort of message for the one who did it when they speak up ...these two...they act like there is no monster out there...

Just the thought of someone breaking in and doing those things while you were in the house sleeping would freak you out for life...

Take the next quote for ex....is she really talking about a monster?



Re BR

2 THOMAS HANEY: Like he's keeping

3 something in, like something?

4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I think he

5 does, you know, in our conversations when our

6 friends call and when, you know, he has

7 confrontations with the media and I am sure all

8 that affects him. As far as something about who

9 did it, I don't think he knows. I mean, he

10 would say.


And I think she tells the truth...cause she speaks about THEM and IMO at one point they were concerned about what he might have heard.
If there was an intruder she would know FOR SURE whether he knows or not who the intruder is,wth!but hey wait,they never even asked him,even if he could have been the most important witness if IDI.
This is a very telling statement IMO.

 

[DeeDee249]

Does Burke have a relationship with his father now? Or do we know? I read the interview in the dad after DNA supposedly cleared him. I don't remember if he mentioned Burke?

Yes, he does seem to have a normal relationship with his father, at least on the surface. Of course, no one knows what really goes on between them or if they ever speak about the events of that night.
Secrets can only stay buried for so long. All it takes is one family "feud", one bitter ex-wife or husband, some family insider with an ax to grind (or a conscience) and one day someone will talk.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

It's been said many times on this forum that Colorado law prohibits the media even saying that a child under 10 killed another child but here's an article from a Colorado case where....

- Police in Lakewood have revealed more details about how a 3-year-old boy was able to pick up a gun and shoot and kill his 5-year-old brother.

Unless the law changes sometime in the past 17 years, doesn't this show that they can say in Colorado, "A child killed another child"?

http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/12/...tails-about-deadly-shooting-between-brothers/

 

[dodie20]

In his radio broadcast last February Peter Boyles called JR the ”Albert Speer” of the crime. If any know the history of the Holocaust, Albert Speer was Hitler’s right hand man who helped keep the “wheels” of the persecution of the Jews going, even though the war was lost. Afterwards, when war criminals were captured, Speer made every effort to show he didn’t even know about the final efforts to continue and hide the extermination of the Jews. (It was a big fat lie). But Speer came out of the situation pretty good and was spared the death penalty. He even wrote a memoir.

When I have read the thoughts about JR really being somewhat of “an innocent bystander” to PR’s or BR’s murderous rage, or possibly only somehow just making an instant decision that late morning (?) of the 26th to help PR, imo and respectfully, I’ve some niggling issues with that idea. And I also begin to have a sense about Boyle’s comparison.

Starting with the 911 call that morning, while I haven’t heard the voices at the end, others have. There is a significant change of vocal intonation after PR thinks she has hung up the phone. Assuredly, JR and PR had been married long enough that he knew why her tone changed.

There are also the lies to LE about when he was in the basement (at least 3 times it turns out) and his false allegations about what he moved down there.

Later there was the request to PP to retrieve his golf clubs from the basement. Middle of winter and ya’ need the golf clubs.

JR was also heard muttering, as though speaking to JB, “I’m so sorry, I’m so sorry” at his friends’ home after the homicide. When asked what he was sorry about, he said he was sorry he did not protect JB. Innocent apology or does he know exactly what happened to JB? IIRC, JR was the first one in his family to be “lawyered up,” and his lawyers were hot on the tail of FW. Why?

Finally, we have the mystery of the garotte and the black fibers from the inside of JB’s new size 12 bloomies.

I dunno, (the extent of his involvement) but just can’t give JR a free pass. All moo.

I've read that the 911 operator was alarmed with the change in PR's tone after their conversation...enough apparently to report what she heard. But, according to the enhancement specialists, PR was wailing and saying, 'help me Jesus, help me Jesus'. IMO, her wailing for Jesus would be right on line with the 911 conversation, so no need for alarm. Like I've said before, (and I admit I could be wrong), I think the voices heard might be hers and JR's, not BR. Then I could understand the operator's concern? because what I hear on that call sounds like an angry voice demanding 'what did you do, what did you do?' and a soft voice answering 'nothing'. There's something right before from the soft voice that sounds almost conversational, kind of defensive sounding? like maybe, 'I couldn't read all of it', I'm not sure, but that's the part that bugs me, because the tone is all wrong for the situation. moo

 

[aa9511]

Hi all, have not followed this case other than just hearing things on the news every once in a while.

Can someone tell me what it means that the DNA sample on her underwear did not match to her immediate family members? Because in the news articles, they make it sound like that's what definitively means the immediate family members didn't do it...but I know from reading a little on this thread that it is pretty much accepted here that the Ramseys had something to do with it. And I trust you all way more than I do the mainstream media, but that's another story......

 

[TroyinTX]

I believe the Patsy killer her. There is really nothing that points to an intruder: everything points to the family being involved. The ransom note, the staged body....it is hard to grasp that there are people who still feel an unknown intruder was responsible.

 

[midwest mama]

I've read that the 911 operator was alarmed with the change in PR's tone after their conversation...enough apparently to report what she heard. But, according to the enhancement specialists, PR was wailing and saying, 'help me Jesus, help me Jesus'. IMO, her wailing for Jesus would be right on line with the 911 conversation, so no need for alarm. Like I've said before, (and I admit I could be wrong), I think the voices heard might be hers and JR's, not BR. Then I could understand the operator's concern? because what I hear on that call sounds like an angry voice demanding 'what did you do, what did you do?' and a soft voice answering 'nothing'. There's something right before from the soft voice that sounds almost conversational, kind of defensive sounding? like maybe, 'I couldn't read all of it', I'm not sure, but that's the part that bugs me, because the tone is all wrong for the situation. moo

Something to think about dodie20...JR and PR, not BR at the tail end of the 911 call. Could JR have been chastising PR for making the call - having come in just as she was finishing up and unable to stop her? Could be by that time BR was also nearby, as the R's admitted, but by that time PR was distanced from the phone, using a little girl voice because of JR's dominant behavior and by then already working at getting BR shuffled back up to bed where she thought he could be safely contained and obscured from any information about a missing JB that would have to be discussed once police arrived?

 

[UKGuy]

Hi all, have not followed this case other than just hearing things on the news every once in a while.

Can someone tell me what it means that the DNA sample on her underwear did not match to her immediate family members? Because in the news articles, they make it sound like that's what definitively means the immediate family members didn't do it...but I know from reading a little on this thread that it is pretty much accepted here that the Ramseys had something to do with it. And I trust you all way more than I do the mainstream media, but that's another story......

aa9511,
No family match on the DNA suggests its foreign DNA, i.e. an intruder.

In reality that is no reported Ramsey DNA discovered on JonBenet's person, some thought might convince you JonBenet must host some family DNA, the critical question is where?

The DNA sample discovered on JonBenet was actually touch-dna, i.e. not semen or saliva.

Being touch-dna means it could have arrived on JonBenet by multiple routes, so without a match it is a redundant piece of evidence, unless you are a Ramsey, of course!


.

 

[Nom de plume]

Something to think about dodie20...JR and PR, not BR at the tail end of the 911 call. Could JR have been chastising PR for making the call - having come in just as she was finishing up and unable to stop her? Could be by that time BR was also nearby, as the R's admitted, but by that time PR was distanced from the phone, using a little girl voice because of JR's dominant behavior and by then already working at getting BR shuffled back up to bed where she thought he could be safely contained and obscured from any information about a missing JB that would have to be discussed once police arrived?

MM you read my mind! I was thinking exactly the same thing. Little girl voice. She already had kind of a high, "tinny" voice. Anyone ever mention her using the "little girl voice"?

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. PR was a drama queen, and a southern "lady". When I take into account what I believe about her past, and her tendencies, I could easily hear her using that voice. I'll bet she used it to manipulate JR because he liked it! In fact, it's really kind of sick when the think about JB's abuse.

I don't know if it was her on the tape instead of BR, but I would bet she used the "little girl voice" anyway. Just seems like something she would do...and he would like.

 

[Linda7NJ]

MM you read my mind! I was thinking exactly the same thing. Little girl voice. She already had kind of a high, "tinny" voice. Anyone ever mention her using the "little girl voice"?

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. PR was a drama queen, and a southern "lady". When I take into account what I believe about her past, and her tendencies, I could easily hear her using that voice. I'll bet she used it to manipulate JR because he liked it! In fact, it's really kind of sick when the think about JB's abuse.

I don't know if it was her on the tape instead of BR, but I would bet she used the "little girl voice" anyway. Just seems like something she would do...and he would like.

Shiver... Reminds me of those couples where the wife/girlfriend/mistress calls her man "daddy"!

Just wrong on do many levels.

Sorry for the off topic


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[Nom de plume]

Shiver... Reminds me of those couples where the wife/girlfriend/mistress calls her man "daddy"!

Just wrong on do many levels.

Sorry for the off topic


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Thank you Linda7NJ!! That has always given me the willies. Just sick IMO. No thanks.

 

[aa9511]

This case is so scary...it creeps me out more than any other case I've seen. As I said before, I just started coming to this thread, so I have not followed it from the beginning. I cannot believe that with all that bludgeoing and all that happened, that they could not find the truth of what happened and who did it! I mean, there had to be SOME dna somewhere??

So sad.

 

[Let_Forever_Be]

Something to think about dodie20...JR and PR, not BR at the tail end of the 911 call. Could JR have been chastising PR for making the call - having come in just as she was finishing up and unable to stop her? Could be by that time BR was also nearby, as the R's admitted, but by that time PR was distanced from the phone, using a little girl voice because of JR's dominant behavior and by then already working at getting BR shuffled back up to bed where she thought he could be safely contained and obscured from any information about a missing JB that would have to be discussed once police arrived?

Very interesting! Would make a lot of sense.