Known rope in the house

[Toltec]

Rope is to be expected in the Ramsey home since sailing plays a big part in their lives. Patsy admits to Burke having rope to make boats around the yard....and it is more likely that the rope was used THAT YEAR to decorate JAR's christmas tree.

The marks below the furrowed section of JonBenet's neck do tend to come from an initial hanging. One of my theories is that Burke could have tied the rope around JonBenet's neck because he had seen it in his new Nintendo64 game Super Mario 64, which, by the way was the only game available for N64. In the game, there is a bomb tied to a post and around a big bomb's neck and Mario must let loose the bomb by pounding on the post that the rope is tied to, thus releasing the bomb.

Sounds corny, but you have to play the game to understand what I am trying to explain.

 

[BlueCrab]

Rope is to be expected in the Ramsey home since sailing plays a big part in their lives. Patsy admits to Burke having rope to make boats around the yard....and it is more likely that the rope was used THAT YEAR to decorate JAR's christmas tree.

But 1/2" thick twisted manila rope is not normally used on sailboats or childrens' playthings. The natural fibers soak up water and make a mess, and the rope is heavy and unattractive. Nylon rope is preferred. Manila rope, as found in JAR's room, is usually used in construction and heavy lifting. I also doubt that heavy manila rope would be used to decorate a Christmas tree. And I'm not a climber, but I doubt that manila rope was used for climbing because of its weight. Again, nylon would probably be preferred.

Why that kind of rope was in JAR's room is a good question. If it was being stored, the proper place for it would be the garage, not a bedroom.

Just my opinion.

 

[Nehemiah]

Manila rope, as found in JAR's room, is usually used in construction and heavy lifting. I also doubt that heavy manila rope would be used to decorate a Christmas tree. Just my opinion.

I could definitely see using that type rope on a Christmas tree if the theme were western, or cowboy. You would want a rugged rope and not something fancy or dainty.

Interesting that you mentioned the way the polygraph questions were worded; that "for sure" part is what has always led me to believe that the Rs have knowledge about the perp but don't know for sure which person was responsible.

 

[why_nutt]

Why that kind of rope was in JAR's room is a good question. If it was being stored, the proper place for it would be the garage, not a bedroom.

Just my opinion.

Since when did the Ramsey family store things in their proper places? The proper place to store FAO Schwartz gift-wrap paper would be on the craft shelves, yet Patsy kept the stuff on the dusty floor of the wine cellar room. The proper place to store pants stained with body wastes would be in a hamper if they could not be washed immediately, yet Patsy let JonBenet drop them on the floor of her bedroom and have them stay there. The proper place to store clothes one has taken off for the night is in a closet or dresser or other traditional clothes rack, yet Patsy says she put the clothes she took off on Christmas night in her bathtub. With that sort of laissez-faire attitude towards the concept of "proper place," why wouldn't Patsy just throw a bag of rope, which had served its purpose as a decorative prop, in John Andrew's little-used room? She also kept rope in the basement bathroom:

http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/ropeunderbathroomwindow.jpg

 

[BlueCrab]

She also kept rope in the basement bathroom:http://s92053900.onlinehome.us/rope...y is missing. Just my opinion. BlueCrab

 

[Toth]

the cord is so tightly embedded in that throat that it is clear the cord and not the rope of any sort was used. I don't know about any rope in a basement bathroom at all.

 

[Imon128]

the cord is so tightly embedded in that throat that it is clear the cord and not the rope of any sort was used. I don't know about any rope in a basement bathroom at all.

My first question is: If the cord was embedded that tightly, why didn't John Ramsey take that off first?

The cord could have appeared embedded so tightly due to swelling of JB's body after death, creating a false image. JMO.

 

[Maxi]

Didn't John Ramsey say something like he didn't see the cord at first because it was embedded so deeply? Or is my memory playing tricks on me?

It's possible that JBR was strangled with something else first, and then the thin cord was pulled tightly around her throat to make it appear that the thin cord was the cause of death. In that case, the killer must have been worried that whatever strangled JBR originally would lead back to him or her.

I wonder if the pattern of petechiae could prove whether or not JBR's heart was still pumping at the time the thin cord was tightened.

 

[Imon128]

I so totally agree that JB was suffocated/asphyxiated by one source and the cord used as a coverup. Dirty laundry hanging out might be a big issue, not sure.

 

[BlueCrab]

Didn't John Ramsey say something like he didn't see the cord at first because it was embedded so deeply? Or is my memory playing tricks on me?

It's possible that JBR was strangled with something else first, and then the thin cord was pulled tightly around her throat to make it appear that the thin cord was the cause of death. In that case, the killer must have been worried that whatever strangled JBR originally would lead back to him or her.

I wonder if the pattern of petechiae could prove whether or not JBR's heart was still pumping at the time the thin cord was tightened.

John said he untied the wrist ligature first because the neck ligature wasn't visible to him. However, he also let it slip that he was "holding up her head" while trying to release her from the bindings. This would suggest JonBenet was strung up somehow when he first discovered her.

Just my opinion.

 

[Toth]

Dirty laundry hanging out might be a big issue.

You are going to have a hard time making up some 'big issue' when you can't even find any 'dirty laundry'.

 

[BlueCrab]

The 1/2" manila rope under the window in the basement bathroom could have been the rope that strangled JonBenet.

Just my opinion.

 

[Nehemiah]

A few months ago I started a thread about JB possibly found hanging, based on the comment by John Walsh, and based on the autopsy report where it led to believe that the rope went in an upwards fashion around the back of the neck. I had thought that the rope going upwards would mean the rope was hanging, as opposed to someone standing behind JB tightening the garrote as that would make the rope go downward. My thoughts were refuted by those who have more knowledge than I about livor mortis and blanching, so I disposed of my hanging theory. Now it seems that some of you believe that this could have been a possibility?

 

[BlueCrab]

Yes; I think JonBenet could have been hanged by a rope other than by the cord found wrapped tightly around her neck.

Most of the petechial hemorrhages (reddish spots) are just above the blanched (white) area at the LOWER part of the neck. This indicates to me that a rope at this lower area was very tight and wasn't removed until a long time after death. Otherwise the blanched area wouldn't have stayed white.

The cord around JonBenet's upper neck would have had to have been pulled tight after death since very few if any petechial hemorrhages are at that location. Therefore, I think there had been a rope around the lower part of the neck, and it could have been the rope used to strangle her. It's missing from the crime scene, but the rope in the basement bathroom looks suspicious.

Just my opinion.

BlueCrab

 

[BlueCrab]

Even though the autopsy report doesn't describe the lower circumferential mark on JonBenet's neck, the autopsy photos show the mark very clearly.

What is important is the slope of the lower mark. It's at the lowest part of the neck in the front, and then slopes upward as it circles around to the back of the neck. THAT'S EVIDENCE OF HAVING BEEN HANGED.

Just my opinion.

BlueCrab

 

[Nehemiah]

Even though the autopsy report doesn't describe the lower circumferential mark on JonBenet's neck, the autopsy photos show the mark very clearly.

What is important is the slope of the lower mark. It's at the lowest part of the neck in the front, and then slopes upward as it circles around to the back of the neck. THAT'S EVIDENCE OF HAVING BEEN HANGED.

Just my opinion.

BlueCrab

Yes, that is what I had surmised earlier.

 

[BlueCrab]

Please check how the lower circumferential mark containing abrasions and petechial hemorrhages slope upwards from the front to the back of the neck -- evidence of the body hanging.

http://www.acandyrose.com/jonbenetfaceright.jpg

 

[Ivy]

BlueCrab, I'm not an expert, but I think if JB had been hanged, the whitish circumferential mark would have been much deeper (and wouldn't be white) and the accompanying petechial hemorrhaging would have been much worse.

I also think that if she had been hanged, her eyes would have been bulging and her tongue would have been sticking out. I think her whole face would have been grossly distorted and discolored, and loaded with petechiae. JB did have small petechiae in her eyelids and elsewhere, but not enough to indicate she was hanged.

The whitish circumferential mark appears to be the same width as the garotte cord. If JB had been hanged with such a narrow cord, I think it would have cut through her skin, at least in some areas. I also think her hyoid apparatus would have been broken.

 

[Toltec]

JonBenet could have been "hanged" in a sitting position, therefore; no breaking of the hyoid bone. John claims that he was trying to hold her head, suggesting to me that JonBenet was tied to something in the wine cellar.

Paint cans were found, along with window screens...what else?

Was there some sort of pipe or something connected to the wall? If so, then I can picture JonBenet tied to it causing the cord to become embedded in her neck.

 

[BlueCrab]

JonBenet could have been "hanged" in a sitting position, therefore; no breaking of the hyoid bone. John claims that he was trying to hold her head, suggesting to me that JonBenet was tied to something in the wine cellar.

Was there some sort of pipe or something connected to the wall? If so, then I can picture JonBenet tied to it causing the cord to become embedded in her neck.

Yes. If JonBenet was hanged I also think she was in a sitting or slumped position -- perhaps "posed".

It seems to me there were two items around her neck -- the 1/4" nylon cord at the top of the neck (which could have been used for EA purposes); and maybe the 1/2" manila rope at the bottom of the neck (which could have been used to hang her in a sitting position).

Regarding the hyoid bone in the neck, that bone is relatively soft in children and doesn't break easy.

The white blanched area around the neck where the rope had been was likely caused by the thicker rope applying pressure to the blood vessels at that point and preventing blood to accumulate under the skin, blanching it. If the rope had been left on long enough after death and JonBenet's blood had settled, the white blanched area would remain white even after the rope had been removed.

IMO the cords and ropes on JonBenet could have been attached to a piece of furniture and JonBenet was propped up against and lashed to the furniture to be posed. The location of livor mortis on JonBenet would support a semi "propped up" position of the body.

Just my opinion.

BlueCrab