KS KS - DENNIS LYNN RADER, BTK Serial Killer

[mysteriew]

I am going to get slapped for this, but this thought occurred to me. I wondered why I felt so strongly that Rader did love his wife.
Throughout all he did, he stayed "faithful". He honored his marriage vows.
He had sexual fantasies, he masturbated beside victims, he tortured- but he didn't rape- though he threatened to. The testimony that was given was pretty explicit- but there was no hint that any type of sexual contact (oral, digital, or actual penetration) between Rader and his victims occured.
He was not sexually intimate with any of his victims. I think he did in his fantasies, but not in the murders.

No, I don't think he was capable of real love. But in his own fashion he loved or at least honored his wife.

Okay, Let the slap down proceed...............

 

[Chanler]

Remember the guy who came forward when btk was first caught? His mother had dated Rader and thought he was the nicest guy there was and had even named her son after him? This guy said that the boy's dad probably doesn't even know that she had named one of her sons after a former boyfriend. Rader could also have liked domineering women or those who do things on their own or the way they want. I just can't understand why no friends from way back in school or growing up have come forward to tell what type of person person Paula was, other than being sweet. I know her work friends really spoke well of her but no one has said if she is a really strong woman or shy or what.

Thanks, txsvicki. I had completely forgotten about his old girlfriend. Dating can be deceiving: Divorce rates in the first year or two are very high.

I suspect that poor Paula married an even-tempered, job-focused guy who didn't drink, smoke, or cavort. She just happened to get a mass murder in the bargain.

 

[Chanler]

I am going to get slapped for this, but this thought occurred to me. I wondered why I felt so strongly that Rader did love his wife.
Throughout all he did, he stayed "faithful". He honored his marriage vows.
He had sexual fantasies, he masturbated beside victims, he tortured- but he didn't rape- though he threatened to. The testimony that was given was pretty explicit- but there was no hint that any type of sexual contact (oral, digital, or actual penetration) between Rader and his victims occured.
He was not sexually intimate with any of his victims. I think he did in his fantasies, but not in the murders.

No, I don't think he was capable of real love. But in his own fashion he loved or at least honored his wife.

Okay, Let the slap down proceed...............

Thank you!!! the same thought has occurred to me. In this respect, Rader is a lot like sociopath/spy/churchgoing FBI agent Robert Hanssen who remained "faithful" to his wife even as he was distributing nude pictures and sex videos of her to his best friend. Hanssen lavished thousands of dollars and a car on a youthful club dancer but insisted that they couldn't have sex.

I think that Rader did "love" his wife and his children, although like all sociopaths, his attachments are poisoned by his secrets.

 

[pacific]

I am going to get slapped for this, but this thought occurred to me. I wondered why I felt so strongly that Rader did love his wife.
Throughout all he did, he stayed "faithful". He honored his marriage vows.
He had sexual fantasies, he masturbated beside victims, he tortured- but he didn't rape- though he threatened to. The testimony that was given was pretty explicit- but there was no hint that any type of sexual contact (oral, digital, or actual penetration) between Rader and his victims occured.
He was not sexually intimate with any of his victims. I think he did in his fantasies, but not in the murders.

No, I don't think he was capable of real love. But in his own fashion he loved or at least honored his wife.

Okay, Let the slap down proceed...............

LOL, not really something to 'slap you down' about, IMHO... The thing that so fascinates...and horrifies me about this guy, is these kinds of very obvious contradictions that would bother most of us greatly; but that, to him, are evidence of being at least partially a good person. Yes, he was "faithful" to his marriage vows, LOL. This reminds me a tad bit of the kind of thinking that Bill Clinton had.....about "what constitutes sex" and what the "meaning of the word *is*, is..." etc. Of course, Mr. Clinton and Mr. Rader cannot be compared. :bang: But it is this compartmentalization, where they are able to actually soothe themselves into thinking that they are following the 'letter of the law', that both crack me up and horrify me. But I do understand your point here.

I think I see many ways in which Rader was a "good" person. It's confusing as all-get-out, though...

One thing that drives me buggy about him is: how in hell did he go to church every week, truly feel that he was a "christian", and yet do this stuff? I mean, we all do bad things - churchgoers or not. But this.....THIS EXTREME, I will never understand. The "compartmentalization" in church-going serial killer is just too much for my tiny brain to handle. LOL.

:sick: :furious: Revulsion. Utter revulsion.....

 

[mysteriew]

It is like I read somewhere. When confessing in court- Rader calmly went into a lot of detail about the murders. Yet he did not discuss masturbating over them. He could commit and calmly discuss one of the most obscene acts a human can do- murder of a child.......yet he couldn't discuss that he masturbated over her body. Such a mixture of prudishness and obscenity is unfathomable. And he didn't even seem to be aware of it.

 

[Jonslatenites]

The serial killer told her the draft was for a college class, according to court records. She didn't suspect him of being BTK, authorities say.

Once, years ago, Paula Rader, the wife of Dennis Rader, became scared when she found a draft of a disturbing poem in their home. It was about Shirley Vian Relford, a young mother strangled in 1977.

And right before her husband's arrest this past February, she told him he spelled "just like BTK."

That's part of what Rader told investigators about his wife after they arrested him, according to a 92-page court document filed by prosecutors Thursday. It details Rader's crimes and interviews with investigators after his arrest.

But authorities said Friday that there's no indication Paula Rader knew her husband was BTK.
http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/12431373.htm

Interesting, and she couldn't figure out that it was his voice? :hand: Or she chose not to??? :silenced:

 

[mysteriew]

Interesting, and she couldn't figure out that it was his voice? :hand: Or she chose not to??? :silenced:

LE interviewed her for several hours and said she cooperated. They were satisfied that she knew nothing about Rader being BTK. Immediately after being questioned she left the area, and just recently got a divorce. Neither she nor their children have been to see Rader according to reports from the media. Neither she nor the kids have made a public statement.

 

[pacific]

Interesting, and she couldn't figure out that it was his voice? :hand: Or she chose not to??? :silenced:

LOL. I know what you mean. I have thought this in the same way you have, *many times*. <snort> :waitasec: :crazy: Well, as a priest friend has said to me, "Denial is very powerful in the human being."

YEOWZAA!!! :banghead: :crazy:

 

[YellowDog]

Don't you find it strange that as many times as BTKs voice was played on radio and television in the Wichita area that neither his wife or his children picked up on it?

Most of us can recognize the voice of a person whom we know almost immediately when we hear it on the telephone. I can recognize voices of friends I haven't talked to in years when they call.

 

[mysteriew]

Don't you find it strange that as many times as BTKs voice was played on radio and television in the Wichita area that neither his wife or his children picked up on it?

Most of us can recognize the voice of a person whom we know almost immediately when we hear it on the telephone. I can recognize voices of friends I haven't talked to in years when they call.

Did you connect his voice with the voice we all heard confessing? It might be interesting to find the link with the 911 call and compare it to his voice confessing.

 

[YellowDog]

Did you connect his voice with the voice we all heard confessing? It might be interesting to find the link with the 911 call and compare it to his voice confessing.

I hadn't really thought about that because I wouldn't have known what his voice sounded like on a day to day basis. But I think if I'd had constant contact with him vocally over a long period of time, I'd pick up on it. It really didn't sound like he tried to disguise his voice at all.

Could that be what set the daughter's nightmares off? Hearing his voice and not connecting the dots until she was sleeping?

 

[jilly]

I think we'll find out eventually Rader was hell to live with, being controlling, domneering, and especially protective of "his" space. I bet his kids played at their friends houses and were never allowed to have sleep overs or friends in their house.

I agree. You just don't turn a controlling personality on and off.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

It is like I read somewhere. When confessing in court- Rader calmly went into a lot of detail about the murders. Yet he did not discuss masturbating over them. He could commit and calmly discuss one of the most obscene acts a human can do- murder of a child.......yet he couldn't discuss that he masturbated over her body. Such a mixture of prudishness and obscenity is unfathomable. And he didn't even seem to be aware of it.

Prudishness mixed with intense/extreme sexual perversion is often a component of a certain sub-species of psychopathic personality. It's also a hallmark of a certain type of child molester. It's also known, in less extreme cases, as hypocrisy. Shining examples would be Fathers Shanley & Geoghan, Rabbi Whatisface, and that Texas preacher who murdered his wife so he could play the field.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

I agree. You just don't turn a controlling personality on and off.

I think we'll get a picture from his friends, family and co-workers of a man who was distant, condescending , and a real azz-hole. But no one had a clue as to how huge an azz-hole he truly was.

 

[txsvicki]

Thanks, txsvicki. I had completely forgotten about his old girlfriend. Dating can be deceiving: Divorce rates in the first year or two are very high.

I suspect that poor Paula married an even-tempered, job-focused guy who didn't drink, smoke, or cavort. She just happened to get a mass murder in the bargain.

I think Rader's whole life revolved around his sexual fantasies and then later the murders and planning more murders. Rader had no need of running around or cheating. It was of no use to him. I wouldn't doubt that Rader couldn't really even have normal sex without fantasizing about killing someone. Yuck. Poor Mrs. Rader.

 

[Bobbisangel]

I wonder if Rader and his wife had a normal sex life or if he was perverted with her. He seemed to be pretty dysfunctional sexually. If it took watching people die for him to get aroused then I wonder if he was impaired with his wife. If so, I wonder how he explained that to her. "Sorry honey but I can't even get it up unless I can torture, bind, and then kill you first." I doubt that he could have sex with his wife while holding a picture of one of his victims.

It just doesn't seem that he could be so crippled sexually when he murdered people and then be completely normal sexually with his wife. Looking back now his wife no doubt understands a lot of things that she hadn't before. He probably blamed her for his sexual problems....keeping her self esteem down on the ground....now she knows who was at fault and why. Poor woman.

 

[mysteriew]

With his prudishness, I think Rader was one of those who goes by the old southern standards. You don't take a "bad" girl home to mama, but the "bad" girls are the ones you play with. To him, the victims were the "bad" ones he played with. My guess is that Paula was "on a pedestal". He probably treated her honorably as long as she kept her place, knew that he wore the pants in the family, kept a clean house, cooked and took care of his kids (helped to create the perfect family image). And she was probably one of those women who totally accepted that. She probably thought he was reserved (non-experimental) and maybe had a low sex drive. He was probably reserved and maybe somewhat distant at home (macho image) but somehow I feel that he probably treated her well. The only way that image would have cracked, is if she threatened to leave for some reason, or had had an affair, or made fun of him, or talked bad about him. But as long as she helped with the perfect family image, it was in his best interest to be thought of as a loving husband. Think about what the church members said about him after his arrest. Think about the pastor's loyalty after the arrest. Think of the shock that Paula and the children have displayed. None of that would have been so apparent, if he had been seen as a cruel, sadistic husband.

 

[Thundar]

Think about what the church members said about him after his arrest. Think about the pastor's loyalty after the arrest. Think of the shock that Paula and the children have displayed. None of that would have been so apparent, if he had been seen as a cruel, sadistic husband.

Rader himself admitted that he was "compartmentalized." He went from the site of a kill, cleaned up, changed clothes, and stepped right back into his family man, church going side. Scarey!! I remember Rader made some remark about Pastor Clark not being able to understand the different sides to Rader's life. I bet nobody who "knew" him can understand those different sides.

 

[txsvicki]

LE did state something along the lines "when he didn't have a willing partner" for bondage. This is practically saying that he did have a partner at times for binding him and whatever.

 

[BillyGoatGruff]

LE did state something along the lines "when he didn't have a willing partner" for bondage. This is practically saying that he did have a partner at times for binding him and whatever.

Doesn't mean it was his wife.
Hell, the perv probably spent a good deal of time tying up Boy Scouts as part of his Scout Master duties, teaching them how to tie knots.