Found Deceased Ks - Lucas Hernandez, 5, Wichita, 17 Feb 2018 #32

[Squirrel85]

I apologize for being argumentative. I don't yet think I've visited the mad-as-hell stage of grief and that's where I appear to have landed today. (What grief I'm allowed to feel as a girl that'd never before met Lucas or those that love him.) Again, apologies.

ALL MOO

I think it's okay to be angry. I don't speak for everyone else, but the anger doesn't bother me. We all get angry about stuff from time to time. I know, when we discuss JH, I start feeling angry. I also don't really pick up on people's argumentative stuff on here. I always view it as constructive criticism. Maybe if there was cussing at one another, I would view it as being argumentative... We all have our own way of looking at things on here.

 

[Squirrel85]

We have no reason to believe the rifle as his. DM said JH didn't own any guns, and someone had searched the house (maybe DM also) and didn't locate any. So unless he had just purchased it, I don't expect it to be his.

If LE can trace the gun, I think the owner will be charged.

Can I be punished if someone else uses my firearm to commit a crime?



"
If the gun is used to intentionally commit a crime, to kill or injure someone, the court will not impose civil liability on the gun owner for the acts of a third person. Again, under the proximate cause doctrine, the actions of the thief would supersede the negligence of the gun owner, cutting off his liability, LeCesne said.



The courts, he said, generally view the shooting another person as an unforeseeable act for a lawful gun owner who simply forgot to secure their weapon. "It's unfair and unjust to hold that person responsible," LeCesne said.

But a gun owner could find him or herself in court if the stolen gun is negligently discharged. LeCesne described it as any subsequent use of the gun that injures because of lack of reasonable care: sticky-fingered kids goofing around, someone picking up the weapon and accidentally pulling the trigger or a fumbling thief who doesn't know how to use a gun." How liable is the owner of a stolen gun or car later used to harm another person?

 

[HoldySi]

As others have said...there’s still so much we don’t know. Like, for example, who may have forged drs notes? Speaking of, anything new with the charges against KE? She seems to have disappeared.

 

[Kamm5]

There are moments when I think JH has suffered enough .. that many of these images and thoughts will haunt him for life. BUT then I think about Lucas with no one to turn to .. no one to save him. And don’t even want to imagine what he endured and I pray he went quickly with no additional suffering . And I think no JH needs to answer for that

 

[Confusion]

We have no reason to believe the rifle as his. DM said JH didn't own any guns, and someone had searched the house (maybe DM also) and didn't locate any. So unless he had just purchased it, I don't expect it to be his.

I wasn't saying I thought the rifle was his, I just added that in there because it could have explained how she got one in there unnoticed. My point was that doing it in his home and using a rifle (which would be a less likely choice for a female to use than a gun, overdose, slitting wrists, etc.) could have been done to make him look guilty. It's at least as likely that she just used what she had to work with, that she wanted to go out leaving as much mess as possible, she wanted to be sure she succeeded, that she didn't do it, or any number of other explanations. That said, I agree that it was unlikely to be his rifle or he'd very likely be in jail by now.

 

[Seattle1]

If LE can trace the gun, I think the owner will be charged.

Can I be punished if someone else uses my firearm to commit a crime?

If the gun is used to intentionally commit a crime, to kill or injure someone, the court will not impose civil liability on the gun owner for the acts of a third person. Again, under the proximate cause doctrine, the actions of the thief would supersede the negligence of the gun owner, cutting off his liability, LeCesne said.

The courts, he said, generally view the shooting another person as an unforeseeable act for a lawful gun owner who simply forgot to secure their weapon. "It's unfair and unjust to hold that person responsible," LeCesne said.

But a gun owner could find him or herself in court if the stolen gun is negligently discharged. LeCesne described it as any subsequent use of the gun that injures because of lack of reasonable care: sticky-fingered kids goofing around, someone picking up the weapon and accidentally pulling the trigger or a fumbling thief who doesn't know how to use a gun." How liable is the owner of a stolen gun or car later used to harm another person?

No, I don't think so. EM used the gun to kill herself, and it's not illegal to commit suicide. Your citation clearly states the court will not impose civil liability for the acts of a third person -- in this case EM.

Citation BBM

 

[chihuahua]

Back online for the first time in quite a few days...or maybe a week or so.
Catching up again with much reading to do.
Just stopping in to say miss you all and thanks for every single thing each of you has contributed to finding any and all justice for Lucas.
Chi xxoo

 

[Seattle1]

I don't think we should be surprised that EM got her hands on a long gun. Not only is much of Kansas rural, but their gun laws are particularly loose compared to the rest of the country. EM also had a long, sorted history with the drug world that could have helped her secure a rifle. Or maybe it was hers.

State Politics and Policies

According to the National Rifle Association, Kansas does not require a licensing of an owner, a registration of the firearm or a permit to purchase or carry firearms, including rifles, shotguns and pistols.... Also, no background checks if you buy gun at gun shows or online!

According to Kansas Senator Barbara Bollier (R-Mission Hills), “basically, our laws follow what the NRA wants at this point.”

Everything you need to know about Kansas gun laws

 

[chihuahua]

No, I don't think so. EM used the gun to kill herself, and it's not illegal to commit suicide. Your citation clearly states the court will not impose civil liability for the acts of a third person -- in this case EM.

Citation BBM

Correct it's only a crime to attempt suicide and fail. It's a form of homicide.
See this link for more info (that you probably already know)---
Suicide as a Form of Homicide
Odd. Right?
Snipped by me "This is what Freud meant when he said the goal of therapy was to make “it” (as in “my anger", it sometimes gets the better of me”) into “I.” Usually, the dominant self, like a frustrated parent, will hush the discrediting or suffering self, but sometimes it puts it to sleep and sometimes it locks it away. And sometimes, like a parent hiding from the Gestapo, the dominant self stifles the suffering self to the point of death. And sometimes, the dominant self forgets its own strength and, meaning to express anger or to teach the other self a lesson, it kills it.

And with those "lovely" thoughts in mind, I am headed off for some much-needed rest. Dang you EG....

 

[Horror]

Correct it's only a crime to attempt suicide and fail. It's a form of homicide.
See this link for more info (that you probably already know)---
Suicide as a Form of Homicide
Odd. Right?
Snipped by me "This is what Freud meant when he said the goal of therapy was to make “it” (as in “my anger", it sometimes gets the better of me”) into “I.” Usually, the dominant self, like a frustrated parent, will hush the discrediting or suffering self, but sometimes it puts it to sleep and sometimes it locks it away. And sometimes, like a parent hiding from the Gestapo, the dominant self stifles the suffering self to the point of death. And sometimes, the dominant self forgets its own strength and, meaning to express anger or to teach the other self a lesson, it kills it.

And with those "lovely" thoughts in mind, I am headed off for some much-needed rest. Dang you EG....

Hi Chi, I hope your well. It’s good to see you.
Thanks for sharing. I will be reading that with interest. The snipped part above has me super intrigued.

 

[Amonet]

I was under the impression that suicide was technically a crime, but it's the only crime in which if one is successful one cannot be prosecuted, not that it's only a crime if one is unsuccessful?

I've never heard of anyone being prosecuted for it?

 

[Charliegizmo49]

No, I don't think so. EM used the gun to kill herself, and it's not illegal to commit suicide. Your citation clearly states the court will not impose civil liability for the acts of a third person -- in this case EM.

Citation BBM

I agree. She may well have stolen the rifle.

 

[WildcatRunner]

If LE can trace the gun, I think the owner will be charged.

Can I be punished if someone else uses my firearm to commit a crime?



"
If the gun is used to intentionally commit a crime, to kill or injure someone, the court will not impose civil liability on the gun owner for the acts of a third person. Again, under the proximate cause doctrine, the actions of the thief would supersede the negligence of the gun owner, cutting off his liability, LeCesne said.



The courts, he said, generally view the shooting another person as an unforeseeable act for a lawful gun owner who simply forgot to secure their weapon. "It's unfair and unjust to hold that person responsible," LeCesne said.

But a gun owner could find him or herself in court if the stolen gun is negligently discharged. LeCesne described it as any subsequent use of the gun that injures because of lack of reasonable care: sticky-fingered kids goofing around, someone picking up the weapon and accidentally pulling the trigger or a fumbling thief who doesn't know how to use a gun." How liable is the owner of a stolen gun or car later used to harm another person?

Suicide isn't a crime, so there will be nothing to charge the gun owner.

 

[WildcatRunner]

I wasn't saying I thought the rifle was his, I just added that in there because it could have explained how she got one in there unnoticed. My point was that doing it in his home and using a rifle (which would be a less likely choice for a female to use than a gun, overdose, slitting wrists, etc.) could have been done to make him look guilty. It's at least as likely that she just used what she had to work with, that she wanted to go out leaving as much mess as possible, she wanted to be sure she succeeded, that she didn't do it, or any number of other explanations. That said, I agree that it was unlikely to be his rifle or he'd very likely be in jail by now.

I posted a link a couple threads back, gunshot is pretty common for females, so it's not completely odd. The link is shared showed about 32% of female suicides are with a gun. Pretty evenly tied with hanging and poisoning (drugs, carbon monoxide, etc). It just seems rare for women because it was 56% of the method for men. But for women, at basically 1 out of 3, I'm not shocked she chose it.

 

[WildcatRunner]

I don't think we should be surprised that EM got her hands on a long gun. Not only is much of Kansas rural, but their gun laws are particularly loose compared to the rest of the country. EM also had a long, sorted history with the drug world that could have helped her secure a rifle. Or maybe it was hers.

State Politics and Policies

According to the National Rifle Association, Kansas does not require a licensing of an owner, a registration of the firearm or a permit to purchase or carry firearms, including rifles, shotguns and pistols.... Also, no background checks if you buy gun at gun shows or online!

According to Kansas Senator Barbara Bollier (R-Mission Hills), “basically, our laws follow what the NRA wants at this point.”

Everything you need to know about Kansas gun laws

I don't think being part of the drug world has much to do with the ease of obtaining a rifle. I've never seen an illegal drug in my life, let alone used one, and live in a fairly upscale neighborhood, and know at least 4 houses on my block alone where I could get one, not to mention several family members within 50 miles of me that legally own them.

 

[Confusion]

I posted a link a couple threads back, gunshot is pretty common for females, so it's not completely odd. The link is shared showed about 32% of female suicides are with a gun. Pretty evenly tied with hanging and poisoning (drugs, carbon monoxide, etc). It just seems rare for women because it was 56% of the method for men. But for women, at basically 1 out of 3, I'm not shocked she chose it.

It may not be uncommon for a gun to be used, but how many (male or female) use a rifle to shoot themselves?

 

[Charliegizmo49]

It may not be uncommon for a gun to be used, but how many (male or female) use a rifle to shoot themselves?

I think it had a lot to do with access. If it’s her relatives gun or if she stole it perhaps she didn’t want to repeat the wrist attempt Marshburn said she had scars.

Anyway it’s done. I hope her family tended to her body. It is every bit so very sad. No winners and Lucas lost most of all

 

[WildcatRunner]

It may not be uncommon for a gun to be used, but how many (male or female) use a rifle to shoot themselves?

It's generally about whatever weapon is accessible.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

If LE can trace the gun, I think the owner will be charged.

Can I be punished if someone else uses my firearm to commit a crime?

Why charge the owner. EG probably took it without the owners knowledge. Unlocked the storage and took it like she took everything else in her life that she wanted. Unless the owner was very negligent the charges will be nothing a DA would consider

"
If the gun is used to intentionally commit a crime, to kill or injure someone, the court will not impose civil liability on the gun owner for the acts of a third person. Again, under the proximate cause doctrine, the actions of the thief would supersede the negligence of the gun owner, cutting off his liability, LeCesne said.



The courts, he said, generally view the shooting another person as an unforeseeable act for a lawful gun owner who simply forgot to secure their weapon. "It's unfair and unjust to hold that person responsible," LeCesne said.

But a gun owner could find him or herself in court if the stolen gun is negligently discharged. LeCesne described it as any subsequent use of the gun that injures because of lack of reasonable care: sticky-fingered kids goofing around, someone picking up the weapon and accidentally pulling the trigger or a fumbling thief who doesn't know how to use a gun." How liable is the owner of a stolen gun or car later used to harm another person?

 

[Charliegizmo49]

No one will be charged. Who is going to sue for the damage done? Her family? I think everyone wants this over. She most likely stole the gun. Unless there’s neglgenc the DA won’t file a thing in this case.