KY - Rowan County clerk Kim Davis Jailed for Contempt, 2015

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I saw a headline earlier today that the Kentucky AG had weighed in that the licenses are legal. Did not read the article though, sorry.
 
LinasK said:
So then, why don't they clear the issue up annd have the judge order the licenses that were issued without her valid???:thinking:
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I don't know, but obviously a country, state, city or county wouldn't be able to operate without someone to fill in or take over if that elected official was unable to perform their duties for any reason. So what is really going on here???

If you read into the link that I provided, she and her attorneys are going to argue about the "language" that is written in state law about marriage. It has not been omended to reflect the supreme court ruling on same sex marriage. They are going to try and argue that she could be in violation of law in her jurisdiction if she issued licences. It's a ruse and all based on prejudice in the name of religion.
 
sonjay said:
Good for you! Way too many, on every side of every issue, only want to enforce the laws they like.

Personally, I think the DC Police Chief and San Diego Sheriff should go to jail for contempt, just like Kim Davis did.

It's bad enough that we have to go hat in hand to bureaucrats to get permission to exercise our fundamental rights, such as getting married or carrying a weapon for self-defense. It's completely unacceptable when those bureaucrats flout the law and refuse to "allow" us to exercise our fundamental rights.
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BBM for focus.

Get out! You mean those things you cited are really things and not just hypotheticals?

Where have I been? Sadly mis- or un-informed I guess. And I even live in San Diego!

Well, I agree with you. Everyone should follow the law whether they agree with it or not, and if they don't, they should work to get it changed.
 
pomegranate said:
Why does it matter if it's 2 people or 20,000 people? That woman does not have the right to deny their rights.
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Thank you, and this is EXACTLY the perception of the government. My government office makes is a top priority that our client, the taxpayer, can receive services in EVERY and ANY of the 120 counties within our commonwealth of Kentucky. Accessibility is of extreme importance. If a citizen is entitled to a service under the constitution or law, we make every effort to make that available and accessible.

We do NOT hinder the rights of our citizens. Personally, I can tell you that within the scope of my job I am required to recognize all marriages, and there are a thousand people in KY in addition to me who do as well within the scope of government. Although most of us recognize our civic job and our religious beliefs are two different things, there may be others similar to Kim who will act as she has within the government if Kim is allowed to continue and accommodation is made for her actions.

Although Kim is receiving the national attention, she's not the only person who is taking issue with this clarification. The others are watching to see if Kim's case makes headway for them, and I'm referring to in other states. This will potentially open up a huge can of religious worms and set our country back 50 years if allowed.


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KYangel said:
Thank you, and this is EXACTLY the perception of the government. My government office makes is a top priority that our client, the taxpayer, can receive services in EVERY and ANY of the 120 counties within our commonwealth of Kentucky. Accessibility is of extreme importance. If a citizen is entitled to a service under the constitution or law, we make every effort to make that available and accessible.

We do NOT hinder the rights of our citizens. Personally, I can tell you that within the scope of my job I am required to recognize all marriages, and there are a thousand people in KY in addition to me who do as well within the scope of government. Although most of us recognize our civic job and our religious beliefs are two different things, there may be others similar to Kim who will act as she has within the government if Kim is allowed to continue and accommodation is made for her actions.

Although Kim is receiving the national attention, she's not the only person who is taking issue with this clarification. The others are watching to see if Kim's case makes headway for them, and I'm referring to in other states. This will potentially open up a huge can of religious worms and set our country back 50 years if allowed.


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Potentially, but based on what forward progress we've made and the reactions to Kim's shenanigans I don't think we'll go backwards. It may be tedious, possibly expensive, and be a frustrating pain in the butt, but we're going to keep moving forward on this.

I hope!
 
IzzyBlanche said:
BBM for focus.

Get out! You mean those things you cited are really things and not just hypotheticals?

Where have I been? Sadly mis- or un-informed I guess. And I even live in San Diego!

Well, I agree with you. Everyone should follow the law whether they agree with it or not, and if they don't, they should work to get it changed.
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Yes, those are really things.

MSM and the current administration like gay marriage and don't like guns. So you don't hear about those. But yes... officials are flouting and refusing to comply with laws and court orders all over the place.

A backwater county clerk in a backwater county in Kentucky is the one that gets all the coverage, and gets vilified and hated on and sent to jail, because the court decision that she's flouting is a popular one with MSM.

Plenty of people think it's just fine for people to be denied fundamental Constitutionally protected rights, if the right is one that they don't like.
 
sonjay said:
Yes, those are really things.

MSM and the current administration like gay marriage and don't like guns. So you don't hear about those. But yes... officials are flouting and refusing to comply with laws and court orders all over the place.

A backwater county clerk in a backwater county in Kentucky is the one that gets all the coverage, and gets vilified and hated on and sent to jail, because the court decision that she's flouting is a popular one with MSM.

Plenty of people think it's just fine for people to be denied fundamental Constitutionally protected rights, if the right is one that they don't like.
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BBM

Davis is not "getting vilified, hated on and sent to jail" because the court decision "she's flouting" is a popular one with MSM. Davis is "getting vilified and hated on" because she is not doing her job and at the same time showing her own bigotry towards same sex couples while using God as her excuse. Davis went to jail because she was held in contempt of a court order. MSM had nothing to do with that.

Davis, like everyone else in the United States of America and many other countries, has the right to her own religious beliefs and practices. That has not been changed. Davis is not being persecuted in any way that is forcing her to not practice her religious beliefs. However, she (like the rest of us) can not simply disobey a law because she feels like it or because of "God's word". Her job is not one in which she can force her religious beliefs on the rest of us. If she has an issue with this, she can resign.

MOO
 
TorisMom003 said:
BBM

Davis is not "getting vilified, hated on and sent to jail" because the court decision "she's flouting" is a popular one with MSM. Davis is "getting vilified and hated on" because she is not doing her job and at the same time showing her own bigotry towards same sex couples while using God as her excuse. Davis went to jail because she was held in contempt of a court order. MSM had nothing to do with that.

Davis, like everyone else in the United States of America and many other countries, has the right to her own religious beliefs and practices. That has not been changed. Davis is not being persecuted in any way that is forcing her to not practice her religious beliefs. However, she (like the rest of us) can not simply disobey a law because she feels like it or because of "God's word". Her job is not one in which she can force her religious beliefs on the rest of us. If she has an issue with this, she can resign.

MOO
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Yup. If this was really about her beliefs, she would have vacated her position, rather than making a stink about it and ordering her minions to follow suit. M
 
EllieBee said:
Let us just imagine for a moment if this were a gun shop.

And an employee refused to sell a gun to someone. Because they had a moral objection to guns and killing. Gun nuts would have their panties in a major twist over this. Because of you know, civil rights and all. And because guns are good and gays are evil.

Are we all okay with that? I mean we all know that gays getting married is WAY scarier than people buying guns, because more people die every year from gay-ness than from gunshot wounds. It's science. :rolleyes:
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One thing that would be different in your example- owning guns was legal when the person took the job, not a change after working the job for I believe 26 years.
 
TorisMom003 said:
BBM

Davis is not "getting vilified, hated on and sent to jail" because the court decision "she's flouting" is a popular one with MSM. Davis is "getting vilified and hated on" because she is not doing her job and at the same time showing her own bigotry towards same sex couples while using God as her excuse. Davis went to jail because she was held in contempt of a court order. MSM had nothing to do with that.

Davis, like everyone else in the United States of America and many other countries, has the right to her own religious beliefs and practices. That has not been changed. Davis is not being persecuted in any way that is forcing her to not practice her religious beliefs. However, she (like the rest of us) can not simply disobey a law because she feels like it or because of "God's word". Her job is not one in which she can force her religious beliefs on the rest of us. If she has an issue with this, she can resign.

MOO
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I am not for one second defending Davis. If you go back and look at my earliest posts on this thread, I have been against her actions from the beginning.

However, yes, her case is the one that's getting all the MSM coverage because the court order that she's flouting is one that's popular with MSM. How many of you had even heard of the carry-permit situations in DC and San Diego, as well as other places? Why are there not news stories every day and national MSM coverage of those?

They should all have to follow the law. Not just the ones the MSM likes.

Davis rightfully was sent to jail. The DC police chief and San Diego sheriff should face a similar consequence. They don't even have the fallback position of it being "their religion." They just flat-out don't want people to have or carry guns, and they're taking the law into their own hands to make that happen.
 
For the sake of argument, let's say a suit is filed and won, that the Supreme Court did not have the jurisdiction to make this law. Now it must be put forth in a national election or given back to the states. Now it loses in all or some places. Are people going to feel the same towards the person who is doing the same as KD, but on the other side? My position is that she has a right to her opinion and her beliefs, as do we all. I'm not going to vilify her, or call her a nut job. She may be, but I don't know that for a fact. Everybody is not on the same side of every issue. Our country is founded on the fact that we all have a say. (used to be the majority) I for one, if I lived in KY, would be willing to work out a compromise with her.
We talk a lot about gay/trans rights, black rights, etc, but what about everybody elses rights? The conservatives have rights, whites have rights, rich people have rights, Hispanics, Asians, Alaskans, the list is endless.
I give her credit for standing up for what she believes in, whether I agree with her or not.
All MOO only.
 
rob said:
One thing that would be different in your example- owning guns was legal when the person took the job, not a change after working the job for I believe 26 years.
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Doesn't matter - laws [can/do] change over time. KD took an oath to uphold the law; not simply laws today, but all laws inacted over the course of her tenure as a clerk of the court. In 1967 the SC struck down laws in all states prohibiting interracial marriage. It would be no more right to allow a sitting clerk of the court accommodations/exemption from issuing marriage licenses to interracial couples then than it would be to allow KD accommodations/exemption from issuing marraige licenses today to same-sex couples - no matter when she (or anyone) took the office.
 
Davis was a deputy clerk under her mother for 26 years. Last fall is when she ran and was elected as county clerk. So she has held the county clerk position for approximately one year. Same sex marriage has been on the horizon, changes being made, steps being taken, to make it legal everywhere for more than the past year. In other words Davis had to have known that it was a clear possibility that if she were elected she would have to issue marriage licenses from "her" office to same sex couples. She took the oath of office knowing of that possibility. Perhaps she should have looked for a job that was more in line with her personal religious beliefs.

MOO
 
rob said:
For the sake of argument, let's say a suit is filed and won, that the Supreme Court did not have the jurisdiction to make this law. Now it must be put forth in a national election or given back to the states. Now it loses in all or some places. Are people going to feel the same towards the person who is doing the same as KD, but on the other side? My position is that she has a right to her opinion and her beliefs, as do we all. I'm not going to vilify her, or call her a nut job. She may be, but I don't know that for a fact. Everybody is not on the same side of every issue. Our country is founded on the fact that we all have a say. (used to be the majority) I for one, if I lived in KY, would be willing to work out a compromise with her.
We talk a lot about gay/trans rights, black rights, etc, but what about everybody elses rights? The conservatives have rights, whites have rights, rich people have rights, Hispanics, Asians, Alaskans, the list is endless.
I give her credit for standing up for what she believes in, whether I agree with her or not.
All MOO only.
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The Supreme Court does not make or pass laws. Never did, never will. As for "jurisdiction." The Constitution of the United States of America assigns the Supreme Court of the United States of America the SOLE authority to decide constitutional issues brought before the Court.

Same- sex marriage was brought before the Court in the same manner all cases are ever brought before the Court. The Court justices then heard oral arguments, deliberated, and issued their ruling that same sex marriage is a constitutional right.

That is the END of the discussion about its legality. All done. Decided and over with.
 
sonjay said:
I am not for one second defending Davis. If you go back and look at my earliest posts on this thread, I have been against her actions from the beginning.

However, yes, her case is the one that's getting all the MSM coverage because the court order that she's flouting is one that's popular with MSM. How many of you had even heard of the carry-permit situations in DC and San Diego, as well as other places? Why are there not news stories every day and national MSM coverage of those?

They should all have to follow the law. Not just the ones the MSM likes.

Davis rightfully was sent to jail. The DC police chief and San Diego sheriff should face a similar consequence. They don't even have the fallback position of it being "their religion." They just flat-out don't want people to have or carry guns, and they're taking the law into their own hands to make that happen.
Click to expand...

Media covers the stories that the public take the most interest in. They pay attention to the amount of clicks,comments, and emails on any given subject. I don't suppose it helped that Huckabee and Cruz rushed to her side and kept her in the news.
Just like some missing cases get more coverage than others. IMO
 
TorisMom003 said:
Davis was a deputy clerk under her mother for 26 years. Last fall is when she ran and was elected as county clerk. So she has held the county clerk position for approximately one year. Same sex marriage has been on the horizon, changes being made, steps being taken, to make it legal everywhere for more than the past year. In other words Davis had to have known that it was a clear possibility that if she were elected she would have to issue marriage licenses from "her" office to same sex couples. She took the oath of office knowing of that possibility. Perhaps she should have looked for a job that was more in line with her personal religious beliefs.

MOO
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Davis not only knew that same sex marriage might arise if she ran for Clerk, she is on record as saying she EXPECTED the Supreme Court to rule as it eventually did.

As far as I'm concerned, that means she deliberately lied when she swore (on the Bible) to uphold the law, which included the Constitution as well as KY laws.
 
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