KY KY - Shively, WhtFem 20-40, UP74, distinctive narrow nose, Jul'05

[canteloupe]

Has anyone considered Chiquita Callie Morris Hammock Albert? She does not have a Charley Project page, but is listed on NamUs.

NamUs Entry
Name: Chiquita Callie Morris Hammock Albert
DOB: 1966 (38 when missing)
Height: 5'2" - 5'4"
Weight: 105-115 lbs
Hair/Eyes: Dark brown / blue
Last contact: 01-December-2004
Place: Manchester, Tennessee

If PMI is flexible on the shorter end, she might be a candidate for comparison. She seems to have a nose that might work with the UID description.

She currently has only one comparison, which is for a UID in Newport News, VA.

Drive time from Manchester, TN to Shively, KY is ~3.5 hrs.

 

[dotr]

Namus shows 69 ruleouts:

Robin Abrams 1962 Illinois
Sharon Apgar 1966 Kentucky
Mindy Arnett 1981 Michigan
Sandra Baker 1953 Pennsylvania
Lynn Bandringa 1945 California
Stephanie Banks 1976 Kentucky
Belinda Blaniar 1963 Pennsylvania
Sonya Bradley 1967 Kentucky
Julie Brumfield 1959 Louisiana
Patricia Calloway 1954 Kentucky
Amber Cates 1988 Tennessee
Joyce Crider 1970 Kentucky
Clarissa Culberson 1974 Ohio
Hope Curry 1977 Virginia
Molly Dattilo 1981 Indiana
Jeri Duvall Unknown Illinois
Debbie Escalante 1980 New Mexico
Debbie Escalante 1960 New Mexico
Melanie Flynn 1952 Kentucky
Denise Fraley 1952 Iowa
Pamela Golden 1949 Arkansas
Rachel Good 1983 Virginia
Dawn Haines 1967 Kentucky
Nelda Hardwick 1959 Louisiana
Melissa Hasley 1971 Iowa
Amy Haueter 1990 Kentucky
Nina Herron 1984 New Mexico
Angelia Hilbert 1966 Kentucky
Jodi Huisentruit 1968 Iowa
Danielle Imbo 1971 Pennsylvania
Sandra Jacobson 1959 North Dakota
Christine Jarrett 1956 Maryland
Traci Kegley 1968 Alabama
Hazel Klug 1962 Virginia
Gloria Korzon 1943 Pennsylvania
Ella Beth Lodermeier 1948 South Dakota
Michelle Lokker 1973 Michigan
Christine Lott 1970 Idaho
Brookley Louks 1982 Indiana
Elizabeth Maggard 1961 Kentucky
Donda Martino 1961 Tennessee
Becky Marzo 1980 Wisconsin
Patsy Nonemaker 1944 Kentucky
Deborah Overbaugh Unknown New York
Carrie Polega 1964 Wisconsin
Tricia Reitler 1974 Indiana
Susan Riedling 1967 Kentucky
Susan Riedling 1967 Kentucky
Donna Riggsby 1983 Alabama
Donna Riggsby 1983 Alabama
Janeth Rowe 1947 Virginia
Janis Sanders 1950 Michigan
Patricia Schmidt 1964 Virginia
Tiffany Sessions 1968 Florida
Sharon Shechter 1966 New York
Claudia Shepherd 1960 Florida
lisa shuttleworth 1969 South Carolina
Karen Smith 1965 Indiana
Sharon Sons Unknown Kentucky
Karen Spencer 1972 Ohio
Karen Steed 1968 Alabama
Heather Teague 1972 Kentucky
Theresa Waldron 1978 New York
Margaret Warrington 1962 Kentucky
Rose West 1944 Kentucky
Jennifer Wilkerson 1977 Texas
Brandy Wilson 1977 Indiana
Brandy Wilson 1977 Indiana
Jennifer Wix 1982 Tennessee

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs)

Bumping carbuff's ruleout post.

 

[carbuff]

@MadMcGoo or others, any update to the exclusion list since it was last posted in April 2020? I'm interested to see if my submit Vikki Vukelich has been ruled out (sent in 12 months ago tomorrow).

@othram here you have a very motivated LE with almost 100 ruleouts for this UID, but still unable to identify her. Might be worth a discussion as they are putting a lot of time (=money) and effort into this case.

There are several updates to the ruleouts, but I don't see Vukelich on the list. Hang on, I'll update tomorrow...

 

[carbuff]

Exclusions The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs). Sorry I forgot I said I'd do this earlier. No, Vukelich is not on the list (and Shively JD is not on Vukelich's).

MP9861 -- -- -- -- --
MP2707 Robin Abrams 10/04/1990 Will IL
MP54064 Lea Anna Allen 11/02/1981 Hamilton OH
MP1091 Sharon Apgar 11/18/1999 Clermont OH
MP9787 Mindy Arnett 08/14/2002 Mackinac MI
MP763 Sandra Baker 05/25/2000 Mercer PA
MP2386 Lynn Bandringa 05/29/1967 San Bernardino CA
MP9510 Stephanie Banks 02/13/2004 Clark KY
MP10665 Belinda Blaniar 06/21/1996 Westmoreland PA
MP10949 Linda Bowdre 02/14/1988 Hamilton OH
MP1727 Sonya Bradley 10/11/2002 Lyon KY
MP20328 Julie Brumfield-Gann 09/12/1994 St. Tammany LA
MP2238 Patricia Calloway 03/03/1993 Ohio KY
MP1363 Bobbi Campbell 12/30/1994 Salt Lake UT
MP8679 Shelia Carver 06/16/1998 Oconee SC
MP1987 Amber Cates 04/11/2004 Maury TN
MP2224 Michelle Collins 07/06/2004 Laurel KY
MP5308 Melinda Creech 09/05/1979 Madison IN
MP1764 Joyce Crider 10/28/2002 Fayette KY
MP1372 Clarissa Culberson 08/28/1996 Clinton OH
MP7282 Donna Cupido 10/21/2004 Colbert AL
MP945 Hope Curry 11/11/2000 Virginia Beach VA
MP793 Molly Dattilo 07/06/2004 Marion IN
-- Jeri Duvall -- -- IL
MP2694 Debbie Escalante 08/21/1989 -- NM
MP2694 Debbie Escalante 08/21/1989 -- NM
MP1698 Melanie Flynn 02/26/1977 Fayette KY
MP17088 Denise Fraley 09/12/1982 Linn IA
MP1137 Pamela Golden 07/22/1993 Pulaski AR
MP1141 Rachel Good 10/18/2003 Rockingham VA
MP1716 Dawn Haines 01/01/1995 Hardin KY
MP625 Nelda Hardwick 10/14/1993 Calcasieu LA
MP400 Melissa Hasley 10/18/2002 Polk IA
MP6161 Amy Haueter 01/15/2005 Jefferson KY
MP607 Nina Herron 05/14/2005 Bernalillo NM
MP11194 Angelia Hilbert 06/03/1989 Jefferson KY
MP402 Jodi Huisentruit 06/26/1995 Cerro Gordo IA
MP806 Danielle Imbo 02/19/2005 Philadelphia PA
MP192 Sandra Jacobson 11/16/1996 Burleigh ND
MP1904 Christine Jarrett 01/03/1991 Howard MD
MP10654 Julie Johnson 03/01/1991 Howard IN
MP28907 Carey Jones 05/01/2005 Sarasota FL
MP2328 Traci Kegley 04/26/1998 Elmore AL
MP2524 Diane Kennedy 12/31/1996 Haywood NC
MP1100 Hazel Klug 05/20/1986 Henrico VA
MP10496 Gloria Korzon 03/06/1981 Bucks PA
MP8614 Ellabeth Lodermeier 03/06/1974 Minnehaha SD
MP1829 Michelle Lokker 06/07/2003 Allegan MI
MP95 Christine Lott 03/25/2004 Bonner ID
MP1045 Brookley Louks 06/24/2002 Johnson IN
MP8988 Debra Lucas 09/26/2010 Jefferson KY
MP74 Elizabeth Maggard 07/04/1984 Campbell KY
MP23 Janet March 08/15/1996 Davidson TN
MP23 Janet March 08/15/1996 Davidson TN
MP6907 Carolyn Martin 08/31/1981 Oakland MI
MP9336 Donda Martino 06/30/1994 Hamilton TN
MP292 Becky Marzo 12/12/2003 Milwaukee WI
MP11480 Lavonne Miller 12/06/1997 Greene AR
MP80 Patsy Nonemaker 12/31/1999 Bullitt KY
MP299 Kerry O'Brien-Krueger 12/06/1989 Racine WI
-- Deborah Overbaugh -- -- NY
MP10555 Denise Pflum 03/28/1986 Fayette IN
MP8058 Mary Pike 04/01/1994 Clark NV
MP365 Carrie Polega 10/14/2003 Marinette WI
MP7025 Tricia Reitler 03/29/1993 Grant IN
MP23648 Susan Riedling 03/31/1986 Bullitt KY
MP2632 Donna Rigsby 06/28/2003 Talladega AL
MP1193 Janeth Rowe 03/02/1997 Fairfax VA
MP8530 Janis Sanders 08/05/1975 Berrien MI
MP974 Patricia Schmidt 06/04/1985 Henrico VA
MP2413 Tiffany Sessions 02/09/1989 Alachua FL
MP746 Sharon Shechter 12/09/2001 Monroe NY
MP8161 Claudia Shepherd 08/13/2001 Pasco FL
MP286 Lisa Shuttleworth 09/04/2003 Aiken SC
MP1118 Karen Smith 12/27/2000 Marion IN
MP1717 Sharon Sons 10/27/1993 Fayette KY
MP2956 Karen Spencer 12/29/1989 Clermont OH
MP2349 Karen Steed 11/25/1997 Calhoun AL
MP335 Susan Swedell 01/19/1988 Washington MN
MP23766 Salena Tackett 01/30/2003 Sumner TN
MP52 Heather Teague 08/26/1995 Henderson KY
MP2026 Tabitha Tuders 04/29/2003 Davidson TN
MP16945 Colleen Voitik McHugh 04/17/1994 Will IL
MP759 Theresa Waldron 01/10/2005 Schenectady NY
MP5616 Margaret Warrington 02/24/1997 Kenton KY
MP1734 Rose West 09/10/1991 Green KY
MP630 Jennifer Wilkerson 07/13/2004 Lubbock TX
MP12190 Jennifer Wilmer 09/13/1993 Trinity CA
MP1134 Brandy Wilson 06/04/2002 Clinton IN
MP53 Jennifer Wix 03/25/2004 Robertson TN
MP38062 Barbara Wooden 10/23/1998 Hamilton TN

 

[Alleykins]

Thanks, Carbuff. That's quite a list.

 

[carbuff]

Thanks, Carbuff. That's quite a list.

Yeah, I think it was around 90 names. Namus said 96, but there were several duplicates. On the one hand it's discouraging so many people aren't her. On the other, it's good that her LE is clearly working hard to try to identify her.

 

[Melt71]

Yeah, I think it was around 90 names. Namus said 96, but there were several duplicates. On the one hand it's discouraging so many people aren't her. On the other, it's good that her LE is clearly working hard to try to identify her.

@MadMcGoo are you able to recommend to @othram who you are dealing with on these cases - is it the ME's office? As I posted above, with all these ruleouts, someone is clearly VERY motivated to try and ID her, you'd think they want to save all those man-hours and try something new at this point...

 

[MadMcGoo]

@MadMcGoo are you able to recommend to @othram who you are dealing with on these cases - is it the ME's office? As I posted above, with all these ruleouts, someone is clearly VERY motivated to try and ID her, you'd think they want to save all those man-hours and try something new at this point...

I’ll have to go back and look through my notes, but I think someone other than ME’s office (who I’ve been in contact with previously) is the driving force behind this particular Doe. I could be thinking of another one though, I’ll check!

 

[Hockeyfan158]

Any updates? Could this be Diana braungardt who disappeared in 1987? Diana Jane Braungardt – The Charley Project

 

[carbuff]

Any updates? Could this be Diana braungardt who disappeared in 1987? Diana Jane Braungardt – The Charley Project

Possible I suppose. If she was 18 in 1987, she'd still be in range by 2006. The facial resemblance is pretty strong.

 

[Danya]

Hello! Apologies if this has been discussed before and I missed it, but I think this Jane is worth a comparison with Maura Murray. It’s fairly far apart, and the height estimate is off by a few inches, but given the key only had partial skeletal remains I don’t think the height estimate is too exact. What really gets me is the tiny, narrow nose, a lot like Maura’s. Also the eyes being slightly close together.


I submitted the possible match to the Doe Network several years ago and the case manager got back to me confirming that this comparison had not been done already, and that since certain factors could match, she would present it to their committee for review and get back to me. I never heard back and it does not look like the comparison has been made as of yet. I’m hoping someone here could give their thoughts?

 

[Alleykins]

Welcome @Danya
I've submitted possible matches, both to NamUs and DoeNetwork, and a couple of times directly to the investigating agency. Responses vary. Sometimes, I never heard back past the initial confirmation they received the submission, other times, I did get an answer that it wasn't a likely match or it had been ruled out already, or they passed the information on to the investigating agency for further investigation.
One thing I can assure is if the person told you it would be compared, that it was compared or forwarded on to an agency who could make the comparison. You could follow up with them.
One submission I made with DoeNetwork & followed up on two years later, DN replied they passed it along to law enforcement, so I left it at that.

 

[Danya]

Welcome @Danya
I've submitted possible matches, both to NamUs and DoeNetwork, and a couple of times directly to the investigating agency. Responses vary. Sometimes, I never heard back past the initial confirmation they received the submission, other times, I did get an answer that it wasn't a likely match or it had been ruled out already, or they passed the information on to the investigating agency for further investigation.
One thing I can assure is if the person told you it would be compared, that it was compared or forwarded on to an agency who could make the comparison. You could follow up with them.
One submission I made with DoeNetwork & followed up on two years later, DN replied they passed it along to law enforcement, so I left it at that.

Thanks for the info! I know these things run slooooww and things are sometimes forgotten (esp with Covid throwing everything for a loop). Good to hear Doe Network is thorough on following up. Any thoughts on the comparison?

 

[Alleykins]

I don't see a resemblance. Maura's nose appears the opposite of long and slim to me.
But I'm thinking both she and the UP have DNA in CODIS, so this would be considered a rule out by default.

 

[carbuff]

The National Missing and Unidentified Persons System (NamUs).

Two new names:

MP9861 -- -- -- -- --
MP2707 Robin Abrams 10/04/1990 Will IL
MP54064 Lea Anna Allen 11/02/1981 Hamilton OH
MP1091 Sharon Apgar 11/18/1999 Clermont OH
MP9787 Mindy Arnett 08/14/2002 Mackinac MI
MP763 Sandra Baker 05/25/2000 Mercer PA
MP2386 Lynn Bandringa 05/29/1967 San Bernardino CA
MP9510 Stephanie Banks 02/13/2004 Clark KY
MP10665 Belinda Blaniar 06/21/1996 Westmoreland PA
MP10949 Linda Bowdre 02/14/1988 Hamilton OH
MP1727 Sonya Bradley 10/11/2002 Lyon KY
MP20328 Julie Brumfield-Gann 09/12/1994 St. Tammany LA
MP2238 Patricia Calloway 03/03/1993 Ohio KY
MP1363 Bobbi Campbell 12/30/1994 Salt Lake UT
MP8679 Shelia Carver 06/16/1998 Oconee SC
MP1987 Amber Cates 04/11/2004 Maury TN
MP2224 Michelle Collins 07/06/2004 Laurel KY
MP5308 Melinda Creech 09/05/1979 Madison IN
MP1764 Joyce Crider 10/28/2002 Fayette KY
MP1372 Clarissa Culberson 08/28/1996 Clinton OH
MP7282 Donna Cupido 10/21/2004 Colbert AL
MP945 Hope Curry 11/11/2000 Virginia Beach VA
MP793 Molly Dattilo 07/06/2004 Marion IN
-- Jeri Duvall -- -- IL
MP2694 Debbie Escalante 08/21/1989 -- NM
MP2694 Debbie Escalante 08/21/1989 -- NM
MP1698 Melanie Flynn 02/26/1977 Fayette KY
MP17088 Denise Fraley 09/12/1982 Linn IA
MP6079 Erica Fraysure 10/21/1997 Bracken KY
MP1137 Pamela Golden 07/22/1993 Pulaski AR
MP1141 Rachel Good 10/18/2003 Rockingham VA
MP1716 Dawn Haines 01/01/1995 Hardin KY
MP625 Nelda Hardwick 10/14/1993 Calcasieu LA
MP400 Melissa Hasley 10/18/2002 Polk IA
MP6161 Amy Haueter 01/15/2005 Jefferson KY
MP607 Nina Herron 05/14/2005 Bernalillo NM
MP11194 Angelia Hilbert 06/03/1989 Jefferson KY
MP402 Jodi Huisentruit 06/26/1995 Cerro Gordo IA
MP806 Danielle Imbo 02/19/2005 Philadelphia PA
MP192 Sandra Jacobson 11/16/1996 Burleigh ND
MP1904 Christine Jarrett 01/03/1991 Howard MD
MP10654 Julie Johnson 03/01/1991 Howard IN
MP28907 Carey Jones 05/01/2005 Sarasota FL
MP2328 Traci Kegley 04/26/1998 Elmore AL
MP2524 Diane Kennedy 12/31/1996 Haywood NC
MP1100 Hazel Klug 05/20/1986 Henrico VA
MP10496 Gloria Korzon 03/06/1981 Bucks PA
MP8614 Ellabeth Lodermeier 03/06/1974 Minnehaha SD
MP1829 Michelle Lokker 06/07/2003 Allegan MI
MP95 Christine Lott 03/25/2004 Bonner ID
MP1045 Brookley Louks 06/24/2002 Johnson IN
MP8988 Debra Lucas 09/26/2010 Jefferson KY
MP74 Elizabeth Maggard 07/04/1984 Campbell KY
MP23 Janet March 08/15/1996 Davidson TN
MP23 Janet March 08/15/1996 Davidson TN
MP6907 Carolyn Martin 08/31/1981 Oakland MI
MP9336 Donda Martino 06/30/1994 Hamilton TN
MP292 Becky Marzo 12/12/2003 Milwaukee WI
MP11480 Lavonne Miller 12/06/1997 Greene AR
MP80 Patsy Nonemaker 12/31/1999 Bullitt KY
MP299 Kerry O'Brien-Krueger 12/06/1989 Racine WI
-- Deborah Overbaugh -- -- NY
MP1008 Olive Petty 09/14/2000 Jefferson KY
MP10555 Denise Pflum 03/28/1986 Fayette IN
MP8058 Mary Pike 04/01/1994 Clark NV
MP365 Carrie Polega 10/14/2003 Marinette WI
MP7025 Tricia Reitler 03/29/1993 Grant IN
MP23648 Susan Riedling 03/31/1986 Bullitt KY
MP2632 Donna Rigsby 06/28/2003 Talladega AL
MP1193 Janeth Rowe 03/02/1997 Fairfax VA
MP8530 Janis Sanders 08/05/1975 Berrien MI
MP974 Patricia Schmidt 06/04/1985 Henrico VA
MP2413 Tiffany Sessions 02/09/1989 Alachua FL
MP746 Sharon Shechter 12/09/2001 Monroe NY
MP8161 Claudia Shepherd 08/13/2001 Pasco FL
MP286 Lisa Shuttleworth 09/04/2003 Aiken SC
MP1118 Karen Smith 12/27/2000 Marion IN
MP1717 Sharon Sons 10/27/1993 Fayette KY
MP2956 Karen Spencer 12/29/1989 Clermont OH
MP2349 Karen Steed 11/25/1997 Calhoun AL
MP335 Susan Swedell 01/19/1988 Washington MN
MP23766 Salena Tackett 01/30/2003 Sumner TN
MP52 Heather Teague 08/26/1995 Henderson KY
MP2026 Tabitha Tuders 04/29/2003 Davidson TN
MP16945 Colleen Voitik McHugh 04/17/1994 Will IL
MP759 Theresa Waldron 01/10/2005 Schenectady NY
MP5616 Margaret Warrington 02/24/1997 Kenton KY
MP1734 Rose West 09/10/1991 Green KY
MP630 Jennifer Wilkerson 07/13/2004 Lubbock TX
MP12190 Jennifer Wilmer 09/13/1993 Trinity CA
MP1134 Brandy Wilson 06/04/2002 Clinton IN
MP53 Jennifer Wix 03/25/2004 Robertson TN
MP38062 Barbara Wooden 10/23/1998 Hamilton TN

 

[Danya]

I don't see a resemblance. Maura's nose appears the opposite of long and slim to me.
But I'm thinking both she and the UP have DNA in CODIS, so this would be considered a rule out by default.

huh I was not aware all Unknowns were automatically compared to Codis DNA...many of the “rule outs” listed for UP are also in Codis, but still had seemed like they had to be ruled out. Interesting! Any idea why this would be?

 

[carbuff]

huh I was not aware all Unknowns were automatically compared to Codis DNA...many of the “rule outs” listed for UP are also in Codis, but still had seemed like they had to be ruled out. Interesting! Any idea why this would be?

An oversimplified overview:

Codis and Namus aren't the same thing. Not everyone in Namus is in Codis, and Codis has tens of thousands of entries that aren't in Namus.

Namus software doesn't actually exclude anyone. They generate a list of possibilities based on fingerprints, dentals, DNA, and sometimes demographics and geography. LE then has to check the potential matches and exclude or confirm them. Which can take years.

Many LE agencies don't make the exclusions public, or don't keep their information up to date. And suggestions that come in from outside the system have to be entered manually, which many agencies don't have time for.

 

[Danya]

An oversimplified overview:

Codis and Namus aren't the same thing. Not everyone in Namus is in Codis, and Codis has tens of thousands of entries that aren't in Namus.

Namus software doesn't actually exclude anyone. They generate a list of possibilities based on fingerprints, dentals, DNA, and sometimes demographics and geography. LE then has to check the potential matches and exclude or confirm them. Which can take years.

Many LE agencies don't make the exclusions public, or don't keep their information up to date. And suggestions that come in from outside the system have to be entered manually, which many agencies don't have time for.

right yeah I’m familiar with this info, but what I’m wondering is why the fact that both a UP’s DNA and an MP’s DNA is in CODIS make the match an automatic rule out. As far as I was aware, Not every UP is run against every MP in Codis, though I may be wrong about this!

 

[carbuff]

right yeah I’m familiar with this info, but what I’m wondering is why the fact that both a UP’s DNA and an MP’s DNA is in CODIS make the match an automatic rule out. As far as I was aware, Not every UP is run against every MP in Codis, though I may be wrong about this!

Oh I see. Sorry, I misunderstood the question.

@CCJD, sorry to keep bugging you but could you step in and clarify this? I can never seem to explain it adequately. Thanks in advance.

 

[CCJD]

@CCJD, sorry to keep bugging you but could you step in and clarify this? I can never seem to explain it adequately. Thanks in advance.

RSBM

My understanding is that when the DNA from an unidentified person is uploaded into CODIS, it is run against all missing persons that are in CODIS.

By the same token, when DNA (or family reference sample) of a missing person is uploaded into CODIS, it is run against all UIDs that are in CODIS.

What I'm a little fuzzy on is when there is only mtDNA available for an unidentified (due to degradation of the sample). But this can be mitigated by family reference samples for missing persons coming from the maternal side of the MP's family (if at all possible).

So, when DNA from a MP is uploaded into CODIS and run through the system with no hits, there's no need to constantly rerun that MP's DNA since any UIDs uploaded to CODIS afterwards will be run through all MP's currently in that database.

Helpful links from NamUs:

DNA — NamUs Resources and Outreach

SubmittingDNAFAQ — NamUs Resources and Outreach