GUILTY KY - Trey Zwicker, 14, beaten to death, Louisville, 11 May 2011 #2

[oceanblueeyes]

Here's a pic of Gouker wearing the red jersey at Circle K and the next day at crime scene:

https://www.facebook.com/HLNAfterDark/posts/420665061384030

This is what clenched it for me that Gouker was not there and Josh Young was the killer.

I had my doubts early on that Gouker was at the scene. But I'm with you on what sealed it for me. When I found out he was wearing the same jersey that he was wearing earlier at 1pm that made me more convinced than ever he wasn't there.

And it is consistent with other things I felt pointed away from him being at the scene when the murder was happening.

I was watching a repeat on HLN and I noticed something I had missed when watching the trial on line. It was when JG was on the stand testifying and then they showed JY and he smiled and then tried to hid it by lowering his head way down. I think he was even impressed by the outrageous performance his dad gave when testifying.

Like Josh Young's aunt, Ms. Gunter,(?) said on DDs show the other night about JG on the stand "that's all an act.'

imo

 

[AngelWings444]

The ME testified that the cause of death was approximately 2-3 hours after Trey last ate. According to MacKenzie, Trey's sister, Trey ran out the door at about 10:30 p.m. MacKenzie also testified that JG was NOT playing video games on the couch. She is 100% telling the truth! I still believe that Trey was going out to call his Dad, he knew MacKenzie was right there. Maybe he was going to try to get to his Dad's house?

Amanda and JG were having sex on the porch at 11 p.m. according to the timeline. JG is accounted for until 1:30 a.m., AT LEAST! We know for sure he was at Circle K at 1:10 a.m., wearing the same shirt that night that he was wearing the next day when the body was discovered. He did not murder Trey in that shirt, no way.

According to Cassie, JY tried to wake her up at approximately 1:30 a.m. and was not at the house until then. She testified that JG came over later with JY. I totally believe her.

I think they have proved enough to find JY guilty of complicity to murder. I really think he was the murderer, but he did it for his "Dad".

I also believe the inmates who testified in court yesterday! I think JG thought he would pin this on his son, his son would be tried as a child, then he plan backfired and he plead guilty. All while thinking he could take it back after JY is found NG. He's not the brightest bulb on the tree. The inmates had ZERO to gain, other than being beat over and over in jail, for them to testify! The State gave them nothing. I actually feel really bad for them. Nobody deserves beatings for telling the truth. :twocents:

After the killing of the cat, JY laughing at killing the dog, the interview with detectives, no emotion at the funeral, his obvious detachment from reality, his blind affection/admiration towards his "Dad", and of course Trey's murder, this "kid" shouldn't be walking around free. There is something wrong with him. It's really sad because he had a good chance at his last foster care, but those days are over for him. He has no remorse and is incapable of seeing right from wrong. It's sad, but I hope he is found guilty and is never given the chance to kill again.

:moo:

Timeline according to HLN: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/08/01/joshua-young-trial-trey-zwicker-murder-timeline

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't know. The only 'proof' that I see is the testimony of a few people saying that Little Josh said he killed Trey and Cassie helped him dispose of the clothing.

IF that's true, then yes, LJ is guilty of complicity. But I don't trust any of those people. They're all proven liars.

Then there are the people who testified that Big Josh admitted to killing Trey. So do we believe them?

If I have two different testimonies, and I don't know who to believe, I can't really convict, right?

I wouldn't consider the testimony of those saying JY did the murder if it was maybe only one or two people saying it. But the accumulation of so many witnesses saying the same thing...... I simply cant dismiss and say ALL of them are lying.

Why would the inmates lie? Only one knew Trey's father when they were kids. Didn't know JY or TZ. So what would be the inmates motive to lie knowing being a snitch in prison can get them dead or beaten to a pulp? They received no deal for their testimony. One was so fearful of retaliation that he wouldn't even testify to what JG told him.

The ones who did testify have now put their own lives at risk.

JY cannot account for his whereabouts that night. He slept downstairs away from everyone leaving him the perfect opportunity to do this murder.

IMO

 

[AngelWings444]

I think he'll be convicted.

Seems the police did a pretty shoddy job from the beginning IMO

Yep, because Gouker pointed the finger at some black kids, over and over again. :furious:

 

[cady]

OCEAN....I agree and think that it was all choreographed by Daddy

 

[Cappuccino]

Yep, because Gouker pointed the finger at some black kids, over and over again. :furious:

That's no excuse. Parents and step parents should be on the suspect list straight away when a kid is murdered. The police were already being shoddy if they allowed a man who should have been a prime suspect from the start to influence the direction of their investigation.

I think, so far, that JY did it. But I also think this murder would have remained unsolved if JG hadn't done his runner to Alabama and then confessed to murder after being arrested for kidnapping. Its JG's stupidity which has solved this crime, not LE doing a good job.

 

[aa9511]

I agree. The timeline makes it seem impossible to believe JG's confession. So what really happened?

I don't know. I'm confused about the cell phones b/c I can hardly hear the defense's questions...I know they couldn't do Gouker's, but they tested Amanda's, Josh young's, and Trey's, right? I'm assuming there were no texts between Trey and Josh Young, which seems weird if they were gonna meet at the spot....wouldn't they be texting back and forth? Maybe Young wouldn't text from his phone to not leave any proof, but wouldn't Trey have tried texting him? Like when Trey's mom sent him back upstairs aroud 10:30, wouldn't he have texted something about that to Young? "hey I can't come right now Mom caught me, I'll try again in a few"....or something like that.

Unless he just went upstairs, and then came right back down after Mom couldn't see him...but that means he would have met Young around 10:45-11pm. Amanda said she went to sleep around 1-1:30 (I think)...meaning he would have had to wake up Gouker after she was asleep.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

bbm

Did you hear the defense guy Shuler...after the jury left and they were doing hearing or whatever it is in front of the judge...he basically said Makenzie was lying. It sounded to me like he was saying Kenzie was coached to say it...that she couldn't remember other things, but yet she could remember the date (May 10 or 11).

But it doesn't even matter to me whether she was lying or not...Gouker has other people who saw him...like going back and forth to Cassie's, going to Circle K, Amanda, wearing same clothes...and it seems like Young just disappears.

Hi AA9!

A defense attorney always whines about something. I pay them no mind. Its their job I suppose to accuse but she did not sound coached to me at all. In fact she came across very honest and so innocent.

Her story is much more consistent than the prolific liar.........Josh Gouker.....that is for darn sure.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Anyone catch the 'time of death'? http://i.cdn.turner.com/dr/hln/www/release/sites/default/files/download/2013/08/06/zwicker_autopsy_report.pdf

I think he was murdered pretty quickly after he left the house around 10:30 ish. This was all premeditated, imo.

The school isn't far from his home is it?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

That's no excuse. Parents and step parents should be on the suspect list straight away when a kid is murdered. The police were already being shoddy if they allowed a man who should have been a prime suspect from the start to influence the direction of their investigation.

I think, so far, that JY did it. But I also think this murder would have remained unsolved if JG hadn't done his runner to Alabama and then confessed to murder after being arrested for kidnapping. Its JG's stupidity which has solved this crime, not LE doing a good job.

Maybe but when a teen this age is killed the most likely suspect is not a parent but another teen.

If he had been younger then I would fully agree but the odds go way down that a parent will be involved when the child is in their mid teens.

 

[minor4th]

I wouldn't consider the testimony of those saying JY did the murder if it was maybe only one or two people saying it. But the accumulation of so many witnesses saying the same thing...... I simply cant dismiss and say ALL of them are lying.

Why would the inmates lie? Only one knew Trey's father when they were kids. Didn't know JY or TZ. So what would be the inmates motive to lie knowing being a snitch in prison can get them dead or beaten to a pulp? They received no deal for their testimony. One was so fearful of retaliation that he wouldn't even testify to what JG told him.

The ones who did testify have now put their own lives at risk.

JY cannot account for his whereabouts that night. He slept downstairs away from everyone leaving him the perfect opportunity to do this murder.

IMO

Any of those witnesses on their own would be questionable, but when you have a whole slew of witnesses telling the same story -- that Young admitted killing Trey -- it's really difficult to ignore every one of them or write them all off as liars when they're all telling the same story.

Plus Gouker is in jail for life, so there's no reason now to be intimidated into pinning it on Young for Gouker's benefit, and some of these people actually have a lot to lose by testifying about Young and their own knowledge and involvement in the aftermath. Cassie could go to jail, John could have his diversion revoked, inmates could get beat up, etc.

The only one I discount completely is Jahaira because so much of her story was a lie that I can't take any of it as true.

PLUS - there is not a single person who says that Josh Young claimed he didn't do it and no one to give any testimony that puts Young somewhere else when the murder was committed. No one can testify about his whereabouts or his non-involvement

 

[Cappuccino]

Maybe but when a teen this age is killed the most likely suspect is not a parent but another teen.

If he had been younger then I would fully agree but the odds go way down that a parent will be involved when the child is in their mid teens.

Absolutely, but still no excuse for LE neglecting other lines of enquiry to chase after mythical black kids on Gouker's word alone. Its not as if he was an upstanding citizen with no previous record, its not as if he wasn't an obvious suspect himself, and its not as if there wasn't a teenage boy in the vicinity who Gouker had an obvious motive to protect, (ie, the teenage step brother).

Sorry, but LE didn't solve this case, Gouker solved it for them by being such a stupid. It makes me wonder about alot of the other unsolved cases I read about on here, how many have a glaringly obvious suspect that just didn't get looked at because they had more smarts than Gouker.

 

[Cappuccino]

Any of those witnesses on their own would be questionable, but when you have a whole slew of witnesses telling the same story -- that Young admitted killing Trey -- it's really difficult to ignore every one of them or write them all off as liars when they're all telling the same story.

Plus Gouker is in jail for life, so there's no reason now to be intimidated into pinning it on Young for Gouker's benefit, and some of these people actually have a lot to lose by testifying about Young and their own knowledge and involvement in the aftermath. Cassie could go to jail, John could have his diversion revoked, inmates could get beat up, etc.

The only one I discount completely is Jahaira because so much of her story was a lie that I can't take any of it as true.

PLUS - there is not a single person who says that Josh Young claimed he didn't do it and no one to give any testimony that puts Young somewhere else when the murder was committed. No one can testify about his whereabouts or his non-involvement

While I agree with your post, mostly, I have to say wrt the bolded part that we haven't heard the case for the defense yet.

 

[writer7]

And JY lied straightaway to cops about his alibi! That's a top sign a person is guilty to me. Lie about other things, maybe ( ) but not your actual alibi. Credibility blown and suspicion earned. The cops were on him from his first couple of interviews because of that.

 

[minor4th]

While I agree with your post, mostly, I have to say wrt the bolded part that we haven't heard the case for the defense yet.

True ...

 

[geevee]

While I agree with your post, mostly, I have to say wrt the bolded part that we haven't heard the case for the defense yet.

From what I could hear of the hearing after court today, the defense isn't calling many witnesses, a few to rebut things prosec. witnesses testified to but it may not even take the whole day tomorrow and closing is still scheduled for Friday morning.

The judge also said he'd order lunch in for the jury Fri. since they should have the case by lunchtime. They agreed to sequester the jury if they didn't have a verdict Friday evening, and asked the attnys what about if the jury wanted to work Sat. and they mostly agreed that'd be okay, judge will check with deputies and staff about that. The defense attny also wanted to talk about sentencing and they decided it would not happen until Monday morning should it be needed (in the event the jury worked Sat. and had a verdict). That's about all I remember.

 

[Nore]

The ME testified that the cause of death was approximately 2-3 hours after Trey last ate. According to MacKenzie, Trey's sister, Trey ran out the door at about 10:30 p.m. MacKenzie also testified that JG was NOT playing video games on the couch. She is 100% telling the truth! I still believe that Trey was going out to call his Dad, he knew MacKenzie was right there. Maybe he was going to try to get to his Dad's house?

Amanda and JG were having sex on the porch at 11 p.m. according to the timeline. JG is accounted for until 1:30 a.m., AT LEAST! We know for sure he was at Circle K at 1:10 a.m., wearing the same shirt that night that he was wearing the next day when the body was discovered. He did not murder Trey in that shirt, no way.

According to Cassie, JY tried to wake her up at approximately 1:30 a.m. and was not at the house until then. She testified that JG came over later with JY. I totally believe her.

I think they have proved enough to find JY guilty of complicity to murder. I really think he was the murderer, but he did it for his "Dad".

I also believe the inmates who testified in court yesterday! I think JG thought he would pin this on his son, his son would be tried as a child, then he plan backfired and he plead guilty. All while thinking he could take it back after JY is found NG. He's not the brightest bulb on the tree. The inmates had ZERO to gain, other than being beat over and over in jail, for them to testify! The State gave them nothing. I actually feel really bad for them. Nobody deserves beatings for telling the truth. :twocents:

After the killing of the cat, JY laughing at killing the dog, the interview with detectives, no emotion at the funeral, his obvious detachment from reality, his blind affection/admiration towards his "Dad", and of course Trey's murder, this "kid" shouldn't be walking around free. There is something wrong with him. It's really sad because he had a good chance at his last foster care, but those days are over for him. He has no remorse and is incapable of seeing right from wrong. It's sad, but I hope he is found guilty and is never given the chance to kill again.

:moo:

Timeline according to HLN: http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/08/01/joshua-young-trial-trey-zwicker-murder-timeline

----------
Angelwings, I agree with you 100%. I just hope the boy is never on the street again. It is a shame but I dont want someone else dead.I feel sorry for this jury. I think they'll be out a long time. :seeya:

 

[Nore]

Judge to Jury... You're still getting paid 12.50 for today, even though you're going home early... lol

----------
Oh Boy! 12.50 and they get to go home early. The State is all heart. :floorlaugh:

 

[aa9511]

----------
Angelwings, I agree with you 100%. I just hope the boy is never on the street again. It is a shame but I dont want someone else dead.I feel sorry for this jury. I think they'll be out a long time. :seeya:

I got wrapped up in this trial, luckily it's only a couple of weeks....the last trial (Jodi Arias) took 5 months out of my life!!

 

[twall]

If he's acquitted of complicity then he cannot later be tried for murder.

Why not? Not doubting you, just want to know why they couldn't charge and try him for murder. Thanks!