Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022 - #2

[Vern]

LE has never said Terri was guilty, they've never even named her a POI.

It was her own attorney who named her a defacto suspect; and a judge in her name change attempt.

We don't know everything people have reported to LE. We don't know what LE knows.

We've been here before. She certainly was treated as the de facto suspect by the media, posters here, loved ones of Kyron and the LE.

Her lawyer simply stated what LE didn't ... although everyone else stated it. There's NO surprise here. The lawyer just stated the facts of how she was being treated.

 

[ReadySet]

Then let's hope that if you have to ever drive a sick or colicy infant around to soothe them for 90 minutes or so that you take the time to write down or otherwise record your exact meandering, mindless route, turns and specific timings of those turns, roads and directions, and note the plate numbers and driver descriptions of any cars you come across lest you have to turn to them as an alibi witness if a loved one happens to disappear while you are out driving.

Hindsight is 20/20 and I'm sure that if Terri was aware at the time of her mindless driving that Kyron was missing and that she would 'need' an alibi, she'd have probably made better notes of those specifics too.

I certainly don't do that when my husband and I are out just jaunting around, but I could tell you generally where we went and general timings. Nor could most people for that matter give you actual specifics if they do not know that they should be keeping track of the minutae to alibi themselves later. It's totally normal behaviour not to note all those things in specifics. I imagine that's what Terri also d

Terri should have been able to tell the following:
Were the roads you drove on paved? gravel? dirt?
Did you stop at any point? What did that area look like?
Were you able to maintain a regular speed or did you have to slow down significantly. Why?
Were the roads very windy? Mostly straight?
Were there any pretty viewpoints when you rounded a curve? Or was it just forest on all sides? Was there a drop off at any point? Which side of the road was the drop off on?
Do you remember the name of any of the roads?
Were there fences? Homes? Did there seem to be any estatess set way back off the road?
Any pastures? Horses?
Were the roads narrow so you wondered if a car going the other direction would fit? Did you see any other cars or were you out there on your own?
Was it dark and shady because of thick vegetation and trees? Did you come out to any clearings or meadows?
Did you see any wildlife?
Were the trees tall or was it all brushy?
Did you listen to the radio or play cds? What station?

I would be able to answer those questions and I have a horrible sense of direction. But I could answer those types of questions.

Maybe Terri did?

Did she offer to go with officers in a vehicle and drive around and see if she could replicate where she drove? In the hopes it would jog her memory? I would think that once she got on the road, things would look familiar or not...I'd be interested in the answer to that question. That's what I would do. I may not be able to tell the names of the roads, but I would know if anything looked familiar.

 

[OddOneOut]

Terri should have been able to tell the following:
Were the roads you drove on paved? gravel? dirt?
Did you stop at any point? What did that area look like?
Were you able to maintain a regular speed or did you have to slow down significantly. Why?
Were the roads very windy? Mostly straight?
Were there any pretty viewpoints when you rounded a curve? Or was it just forest on all sides? Was there a drop off at any point? Which side of the road was the drop off on?
Do you remember the name of any of the roads?
Were there fences? Homes? Did there seem to be any estatess set way back off the road?
Any pastures? Horses?
Were the roads narrow so you wondered if a car going the other direction would fit? Did you see any other cars or were you out there on your own?
Was it dark and shady because of thick vegetation and trees? Did you come out to any clearings or meadows?
Did you see any wildlife?
Were the trees tall or was it all brushy?
Did you listen to the radio or play cds? What station?

I would be able to answer those questions and I have a horrible sense of direction. But I could answer those types of questions.

Maybe Terri did?

Did she offer to go with officers in a vehicle and drive around and see if she could replicate where she drove? In the hopes it would jog her memory? I would think that once she got on the road, things would look familiar or not...I'd be interested in the answer to that question. That's what I would do. I may not be able to tell the names of the roads, but I would know if anything looked familiar.

If I was driving around without a destination just to get a baby to fall asleep, I would NOT be able to answer any of those questions.

 

[ReadySet]

Do we have any links that tell what Terri did say about where she drove? Did she say back roads? Did she say anything at all about where she drove, or just say "she drove around?' Surely she would know if she drove around residential neighborhoods in Beaverton, or through forest? Business areas with shopping or dirt roads with blackberry bushes? It's not like all parts of the area are the same. I've been up to Skyline School years ago. One minute you're out in the "country," the next you're down in Beaverton in shopping areas. You're on the edge of the wild forest, then you're in dense residential neighborhoods. Surely she could give a general description of the area? Was the baby crying for 90 minutes? Did she listen to the radio? Call anyone? What did she say about where she drove for those 90 minutes?

The only way I can see someone not being able to remember anything about where they drove would be if all the terrain was exactly the same. For example, nothing but houses, all the same era, same builder, for miles and miles and all the neighborhoods look the same as every other neighborhood.

Or out in the desert, miles and miles of sagebrush, flat straight roads. Nothing different in one mile than the next.

 

[OddOneOut]

Do we have any links that tell what Terri did say about where she drove? Did she say back roads? Did she say anything at all about where she drove, or just say "she drove around?' Surely she would know if she drove around residential neighborhoods in Beaverton, or through forest? Business areas with shopping or dirt roads with blackberry bushes? It's not like all parts of the area are the same. I've been up to Skyline School years ago. One minute you're out in the "country," the next you're down in Beaverton in shopping areas. You're on the edge of the wild forest, then you're in dense residential neighborhoods. Surely she could give a general description of the area? Was the baby crying for 90 minutes? Did she listen to the radio? Call anyone? What did she say about where she drove for those 90 minutes?

The only way I can see someone not being able to remember anything about where they drove would be if all the terrain was exactly the same. For example, nothing but houses, all the same era, same builder, for miles and miles and all the neighborhoods look the same as every other neighborhood.

Or out in the desert, miles and miles of sagebrush, flat straight roads. Nothing different in one mile than the next.

If I remember correctly, she seemed to be on rural roads. There was something about someone believing they saw her go past them at a rural intersection.

 

[Alleykins]

Between 10:10 in the morning and 11:39, Terri claimed she drove her daughter Kiara around on rural roads in the family’s white truck because Kiara had an earache. She claimed she was trying to soothe the toddler with the motion of the vehicle.

Early on investigators made a request of the public for any video they might have of the white truck traveling on specific roads through Northwest Multnomah County and portions of Washington County.

archive.ph

I think the locations mentioned in the article above pertain to the roads listed below, based on the time frame mentioned.

Video clarification:



Authorities are seeking information from people who may have seen Terri Horman driving her husband's white Ford F-250 pickup along Northwest Springville Road, Northwest Skyline Boulevard, Springville to Newberry Road, or along Old Germantown and Germantown roads between 10:15 and 11:30 a.m on Friday, June 4. In the video above, the times are misstated by Multnomah County Chief Deputy District Attorney Rod Underhill.)

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2010/08/kyron_horman_case_investigator.htmlhttps://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2010/08/kyron_horman_case_investigator.html

 

[ReadySet]

If I remember correctly, she seemed to be on rural roads. There was something about someone believing they saw her go past them at a rural intersection.

any links to what she herself said?

 

[ReadySet]

archive.ph

I think the locations mentioned in the article above pertain to the roads listed below, based on the time frame mentioned.

https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2010/08/kyron_horman_case_investigator.htmlhttps://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2010/08/kyron_horman_case_investigator.html

thank you.

So we don't know if Terri herself mentioned those specific roads to LE, or if that information came from elsewhere, or it's speculation on LE's part because of location

 

[Alleykins]

thank you.

So we don't know if Terri herself mentioned those specific roads to LE, or if that information came from elsewhere, or it's speculation on LE's part because of location

You're welcome.
You're correct. I don't believe we were ever told who supplied the locations, except that the article states this: "Spicher was gardening at a 40-acre property on Old Germantown Road on June 4", which explains why it was included in the canvas. They could have come from various sources.

 

[ReadySet]

If it was me, and I was innocent, I would say to LE, "give me a map. I don't know the names of the roads but I know the general area I was driving." or "Let's get in the car. Once I get on the road maybe things will look familiar."

If I were guilty, I would say as little as possible about where I was. I would be as vague as possible. I would be afraid there might have been witness(es) who could confirm or deny what I said. Or that LE would look for evidence at those places of...something.

 

[OddOneOut]

any links to what she herself said?

I don't believe there were any comments from her mentioned.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

If it was me, and I was innocent, I would say to LE, "give me a map. I don't know the names of the roads but I know the general area I was driving." or "Let's get in the car. Once I get on the road maybe things will look familiar."

If I were guilty, I would say as little as possible about where I was. I would be as vague as possible. I would be afraid there might have been witness(es) who could confirm or deny what I said. Or that LE would look for evidence at those places of...something.

Of course, in the end the idea that Terri was vague or had problems telling which roads she drove on is purely hypothetical. Neither she nor LE has ever said that happened.

For all we know, Terri listed the roads and locations perfectly, and drove with the police to show them where she was at every point in time. There's just as much evidence for that as there is for her not remembering.

The only thing Terri has said is that she drove on highway 30, which you would get to by driving on those aforementioned roads. She told her friends at the time and she repeated it on her Dr Phil appearance.

 

[ReadySet]

Of course, in the end the idea that Terri was vague or had problems telling which roads she drove on is purely hypothetical. Neither she nor LE has ever said that happened.

For all we know, Terri listed the roads and locations perfectly, and drove with the police to show them where she was at every point in time. There's just as much evidence for that as there is for her not remembering.

The only thing Terri has said is that she drove on highway 30, which you would get to by driving on those aforementioned roads. She told her friends at the time and she repeated it on her Dr Phil appearance.

Oh well good! That's a surprise to me. That would be awesome if she told LE exactly where she was in that time! If she did.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

So, I don't believe Terri did it, and to me the main suspect is an unrelated stranger, one who wouldn't worry about being recognized because this wasn't his regular area.

It made me curious about the many sightings of Kyron on June 4th and following days. Sure, in cases like this you get hundreds of reports from people whose desire to help (or desire to be famous) has skewed their recollection a tad, and we only get to know about the handful that also talk to the media (which can be both positive - they were really certain! - or negative - they really wanted to get their name in the media!), but here are some of them.

1. Salmonberry Road - June 5th, afternoon

Truck driver saw a black or grey truck turn from hwy 26 onto Salmonberry road. A boy in the front seat looked out the window and seemed startled.

PRO: Salmonberry Road is way out in the woods. It would be a good place to disappear a victim, while being at a somewhat safe distance from the scene of the crime.

CON: Where was Kyron the day and night of the 4th? The kid being startled could certainly be because Kyron was afraid, but it could also be because in the truck driver's own story, he almost hit the car as it turned onto Salmonberry Road.

2. Monroe - June 9th

Farmer driving from Junction City (or to Junction City?) is overtaken by a white truck driven by a woman, with a child in the passenger seat that she was trying to keep hidden. The farmer sees them drive onto a dirt road where they meet a man and a woman from another (cranberry-colored) car. Together they grab a shovel and lead the kid away. Some time later the farmer hears a gunshot. Later still, the white truck overtakes him again, this time with the other car, and they drive so recklessly, they end up scraping eachother.

PRO: It's a detailed account. Monroe is at what would be very safe distance from the crime scene, and at a logical point if they drove south.

CON: It's a detailed account. A bit too detailed; it seems unrealistic that all those events were spied by a farmer who was driving the whole time. The descriptions of two women seem to be an attempt to bring both Terri and Dede into the story. The place is a bit difficult to nail down, but it seems to be in a fairly inhabited area, a strange place to kill and bury a child in broad daylight. Also another case of where was Kyron in the time between the abduction and the sighting, though there are more possibilities here. The police claimed this one had been looked into and dismissed.

3. Linn-Benton Community College - June 10th

A child who could be Kyron was spotted at the graduation ceremony.

PRO: The same state, I guess? There was another, undated sighting in nearby Lebanon.

CON: Everything else. If you abduct a child would you bring it to a public ceremony six days of intense media coverage later?

4. Goldendale - June 4th

Woman sees a child at the local McDonalds, wearing a cap and glasses.

PRO: It happened on the same day as the abduction.

CON: The woman herself was less than certain; the article is more about her not feeling her tip was even being heard.

I did find this one a bit interesting, since Goldendale seems less obvious than the other places. So I looked into where the abductor could have been going if they were passing that place. And there is one thing. Almost exactly a year earlier, Lindsey Baum was taken by an unknown killer in McCleary WA. In 2017, parts of her body were found on a mountain outside Ellensburg WA. The killer (if they took the direct path) would have gone through and past Seattle, a three hour drive. So I consulted Google Maps for a route from Skyline School to the place where Lindsey was found. And on the shortest and quickest route (244 miles, 4h20m), what do you find almost exactly at the halfway point?

The Goldendale McDonalds.

For a while I entertained the idea of a hitherto unknown Ellensburg Child Killer (an ECK if you will), one who drove to and through a distant, large city, snatched a kid from a more rural or smalltown area, then took them back to Ellensburg. So it was a bit disturbing when I, thinking a killer like that would start close to home, found Richard "Cody" Haynes, who disappeared from the neighboring city of Kittitas in 2004. But at that point I realized I was being carried away. The Kyron sighting is uncertain at best (and only one among thousands), and it certainly doesn't place him in Ellensburg. Also, if the current suspect in the Lindsey Baum murder turns out to be guilty, it would be highly unlikely to be the kidnapper of Kyron.

I do hope they continue to search the mountain, though, if for nothing else then to find the rest of Lindsey.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Oh well good! That's a surprise to me. That would be awesome if she told LE exactly where she was in that time! If she did.

Of course, if the police were convinced that she had been on Sauvie Island, it would not matter what she said to them, they'd still think she was wrong or lying.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I see this case as one where little puzzle pieces have to either fit together or the case could actually fall apart.

Recently a few of us mentioned here about how fact versus fiction is so difficult in this case.

For me, examples include: Were there items missing, specifically the plastic tote, or was everything actually accounted for?

Did Terri have an injury she claimed she got at the gym that day? If so, were there witnesses to it happening? Was it consistent with what she said happened?

Did she send an email to Kyron's teacher excusing him from class for an appointment that day?

Did she tell some people her baby daughter had diarrhea and others that it was an earache?

What is fact, what is rumor?

The facts we do know are mighty suspicious, in my opinion, but I also need the missing pieces.
If only LE would do a press conference and provide some facts, at least a few more pieces. Ramp up the pressure, whomever is responsible. This case doesn't seem to be progressing and it really needs to go somewhere. All in my opinion.

 

[Alleykins]

I see this case as one where little puzzle pieces have to either fit together or the case could actually fall apart.

Recently a few of us mentioned here about how fact versus fiction is so difficult in this case.

For me, examples include: Were there items missing, specifically the plastic tote, or was everything actually accounted for?

Did Terri have an injury she claimed she got at the gym that day? If so, were there witnesses to it happening? Was it consistent with what she said happened?

Did she send an email to Kyron's teacher excusing him from class for an appointment that day?

Did she tell some people her baby daughter had diarrhea and others that it was an earache?

What is fact, what is rumor?

The facts we do know are mighty suspicious, in my opinion, but I also need the missing pieces.
If only LE would do a press conference and provide some facts, at least a few more pieces. Ramp up the pressure, whomever is responsible. This case doesn't seem to be progressing and it really needs to go somewhere. All in my opinion.

I agree. There's so much we don't know. And, in my opinion, a good portion of what we do know can be interpreted in different ways, like her choice of parking spaces and her driving around for 90 minutes, our most recent discussions here.

I hadn't heard Terri had told some people baby K had a diarrhea and others she had an earache, so that's a new one to me.

 

[ChatteringBirds]

I agree. There's so much we don't know. And, in my opinion, a good portion of what we do know can be interpreted in different ways, like her choice of parking spaces and her driving around for 90 minutes, our most recent discussions here.

I hadn't heard Terri had told some people baby K had a diarrhea and others she had an earache, so that's a new one to me.

I agree that what someone does could be interpreted in different ways.

And maybe she didn't tell two different stories regarding her daughter's "illness," but we don't really know what's fact vs. rumor. I wish LE would say more.

One case I can think of where they did come out and release some of the evidence to the public was Ayla Reynpld's case. Unfortunately it didn't help resolve her case...

 

[Alleykins]

I agree that what someone does could be interpreted in different ways.

And maybe she didn't tell two different stories regarding her daughter's "illness," but we don't really know what's fact vs. rumor. I wish LE would say more.

One case I can think of where they did come out and release some of the evidence to the public was Ayla Reynpld's case. Unfortunately it didn't help resolve her case...

I'd like to know for certain if there were parent volunteer led groups. I don't recall confirmation by LE there if there was or not, so if anyone knows for sure they did confirm there was or wasn't, please post a link. But either there were groups, or there weren't. And if there were volunteer led groups, was Kyron in one of the groups, or not? In my mind, if there were groups and he wasn't in one, then there's a good chance it was Terri. If there were groups, and he was in one, something else happened. It would clarify things for me.

I'd also like to see the students re-interviewed, if they haven't been recently. Most, if not all, would be adults now.

 

[Fleur-de-lis]

I see this case as one where little puzzle pieces have to either fit together or the case could actually fall apart.

Recently a few of us mentioned here about how fact versus fiction is so difficult in this case.

For me, examples include: Were there items missing, specifically the plastic tote, or was everything actually accounted for?

Did Terri have an injury she claimed she got at the gym that day? If so, were there witnesses to it happening? Was it consistent with what she said happened?

Did she send an email to Kyron's teacher excusing him from class for an appointment that day?

Did she tell some people her baby daughter had diarrhea and others that it was an earache?

What is fact, what is rumor?

The facts we do know are mighty suspicious, in my opinion, but I also need the missing pieces.
If only LE would do a press conference and provide some facts, at least a few more pieces. Ramp up the pressure, whomever is responsible. This case doesn't seem to be progressing and it really needs to go somewhere. All in my opinion.

Great post! I agree. We need more puzzle pieces. No use holding back that information on a stone-cold case. It's fall and hunting season. It always gives me hope for closure. Or maybe mushroom pickers or walnut pickers out in the woods will find Kyron at last. I'd rather he be found alive, of course. But found.