Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022

[gitana1]

I mean, yeah, that's the point. Until the police clears her, she's stuck in limbo. She can go against her lawyer's wishes and risk being railroaded, or keep out of it, hoping more competent investigators look into the case at one point. It's not an enviable position.

As for the great number of parties involved, it's one thing to assist with the investigation, another to lead it. Has the FBI or the DEA said publicly they agree with the MCSO's choice of suspect? Would they even be in a position to have an opinion?

You know, this reminds me of Brittanee Drexel. The FBI publicly declared a young man as a suspect based on the word of a prison snitch, while the family of the victim claimed there was plenty of evidence against him that hadn't been made public. If you checked forums, including this one, the case was treated as essentially solved, and as the years went by without the suspect being charged, it was called a travesty of justice. Then, just this year, a completely unrelated man confessed and led police to the body. So the FBI were wrong and there was no secret evidence.

If a grand jury (who would "indict a ham sandwich"), after hearing hundreds of testimonies and seeing the evidence, including the hypothetical "hidden evidence", still hasn't indicted twelve years later? I'd say the case is flimsy at best.

With respect, I think you keep moving the goal post and going in circles. Again, based on two decades of family law experience (not to mention much longer sleuthing crime cases), it is not human nature to give up one’s child for fear of possibly being “railroaded”. Not unless there’s been a history of not caring for said child.

It’s actually the opposite. Parents will die for their kids. They will do anything for their children. They won’t give them up for fear of giving them up. Parents will do CPR on the cold, stiff corpse of their child. They will kill for their kids and go to prison for it.

But we are to believe TH gave up her beloved child, the one she doted on, because although innocent, she fears she could be railroaded if she participated in a child custody evaluation? Nah.

As to more competent investigators, are you aware that this case has cycled through numerous lead investigators who start from scratch each time? Multiple fresh eyes? And yet they keep coming back to the same place.

Moreover, states ask for help from the FBI because they want that assistance and perspective. Not because they want to ignore what they think. That doesn’t make sense.

As to the Drexel case, this case is not at all similar. The man who wrongly accused Taylor in that case stated he had seen Drexel after she went missing and witnessed her being murdered. He gave some details that could be corroborated. It’s no wonder the FBI believed he was their man. But no snitch has accused TH. Her behavior and the facts are what have pointed toward her.

Finally, regarding the ham sandwich reference, that was a statement by a judge in the 80’s who himself was a crook, later indicted and found guilty and sentenced to federal prison.

Regardless, I believe there is a lot more evidence that we have not seen but yes, without substantial biological forensics like a body, it’s not enough for an indictment.

I’m not sure why one would conclude that means TH is likely innocent. Guilty people roam free on our planet.

 

[gitana1]

Ok. So Terri gave up her child not because she didn't want to be questioned, but because she was a bad mother who didn't love or want her child in the first place? MO is actually that both of those things are true, she was a bad mother who didn't want to be questioned because she was guilty.

And if she was a bad mother, that says something about her character. Character doesn't say everything about a case, but it says something.

Can anyyone cite a case (and yes I know saying "can anyone cite a case" to we wsers is like saying GO! Have fun!) where a parent INNOCENT of a disappearance/death they were suspected of, gave up custody of a very young child because they thought they MIGHT go to prison? They thought they or their child MIGHT be harrassed in the future? They thought they MIGHT not be able to earn a good living? I'm very interested to hear about those folks.

It's interesting that Terri giving up her child is being minimized. Giving up a child, who was what, 18mos.? two? is a MAJOR, LIFE ALTERING event no matter how you look at it, whether it's in the context of a crime or not. And even if it could be justified, people who give up custody for good reason don't give up any contact, as Terri has done. She had opportunities for different kinds of contact, and she did not take advantage of them.

Terri was putting herself first, protecting herself, which she has a legal right to do. But we know what is legal is not always the same as what is ethical or moral. If she was innocent, she was in good hands, with the outstanding attorney in her court, who had gotten many clients acquitted or reduced sentences. If she was inncocent , she had her attorney, and the truth, and right, and legality on her side. And yes, sometimes innocent people are convicted, but Terri ain't one of them. MO

I also find the attempt to distract from Terri herself interesting. It's LE, and false witnessess and strangers who want to insert themselves into the case who are the problem, not Terri. >S

And by the way...you know how a person's writing "voice" (emotions, attitude, point of view, word choice, tone, etc.) can help you identify a writer? I do find some familiar "voices" here recently, familiar from elsewhere on the net.
IMO

Good post. Only one clarification- I don’t think she’s able to see her daughter unless the child’s therapist concludes it would not be detrimental. But of course all of that is in the absence of a child custody evaluation and further court orders. At this point, the child is what, 12? That ships has sailed, IMO.

 

[mom2chloe]

Ok. So Terri gave up her child not because she didn't want to be questioned, but because she was a bad mother who didn't love or want her child in the first place? MO is actually that both of those things are true, she was a bad mother who didn't want to be questioned because she was guilty.

And if she was a bad mother, that says something about her character. Character doesn't say everything about a case, but it says something.

Can anyyone cite a case (and yes I know saying "can anyone cite a case" to we wsers is like saying GO! Have fun!) where a parent INNOCENT of a disappearance/death they were suspected of, gave up custody of a very young child because they thought they MIGHT go to prison? They thought they or their child MIGHT be harrassed in the future? They thought they MIGHT not be able to earn a good living? I'm very interested to hear about those folks.

It's interesting that Terri giving up her child is being minimized. Giving up a child, who was what, 18mos.? two? is a MAJOR, LIFE ALTERING event no matter how you look at it, whether it's in the context of a crime or not. And even if it could be justified, people who give up custody for good reason don't give up any contact, as Terri has done. She had opportunities for different kinds of contact, and she did not take advantage of them.

Terri was putting herself first, protecting herself, which she has a legal right to do. But we know what is legal is not always the same as what is ethical or moral. If she was innocent, she was in good hands, with the outstanding attorney in her court, who had gotten many clients acquitted or reduced sentences. If she was inncocent , she had her attorney, and the truth, and right, and legality on her side. And yes, sometimes innocent people are convicted, but Terri ain't one of them. MO

I also find the attempt to distract from Terri herself interesting. It's LE, and false witnessess and strangers who want to insert themselves into the case who are the problem, not Terri. >S

<modsnip>
IMO

IMO TH didn’t want to be a mom to little daughter either. Zero maternal instinct and even less providing for the children’s safety and well being. The epitome of selfish. What mother gives up her parental rights and never looks back? TH and Casey Anthony to name a few. Also IMO

 

[FergusMcDuck]

With respect, I think you keep moving the goal post and going in circles. Again, based on two decades of family law experience (not to mention much longer sleuthing crime cases), it is not human nature to give up one’s child for fear of possibly being “railroaded”. Not unless there’s been a history of not caring for said child.

It’s actually the opposite. Parents will die for their kids. They will do anything for their children. They won’t give them up for fear of giving them up. Parents will do CPR on the cold, stiff corpse of their child. They will kill for their kids and go to prison for it.

But we are to believe TH gave up her beloved child, the one she doted on, because although innocent, she fears she could be railroaded if she participated in a child custody evaluation? Nah.

As to more competent investigators, are you aware that this case has cycled through numerous lead investigators who start from scratch each time? Multiple fresh eyes? And yet they keep coming back to the same place.

Moreover, states ask for help from the FBI because they want that assistance and perspective. Not because they want to ignore what they think. That doesn’t make sense.

As to the Drexel case, this case is not at all similar. The man who wrongly accused Taylor in that case stated he had seen Drexel after she went missing and witnessed her being murdered. He gave some details that could be corroborated. It’s no wonder the FBI believed he was their man. But no snitch has accused TH. Her behavior and the facts are what have pointed toward her.

Finally, regarding the ham sandwich reference, that was a statement by a judge in the 80’s who himself was a crook, later indicted and found guilty and sentenced to federal prison.

Regardless, I believe there is a lot more evidence that we have not seen but yes, without substantial biological forensics like a body, it’s not enough for an indictment.

I’m not sure why one would conclude that means TH is likely innocent. Guilty people roam free on our planet.

You're kind of arguing two different things here. One is that parents will do anything for their kids. The other is that parents will do anything to keep custody of their kids. The two are not the same. Giving your child up to give her a normal semblance of a life while you're being left in legal limbo by the police and constantly harassed by family and strangers alike is doing anything for your kid. Can you give your child a good life while yours is in shambles?

It's weird, people keep arguing that she's selfish, but all I see is that she's castigated for not being selfish enough. She's putting her child's wants and needs over her own.

See, I don't believe that they have any extra evidence (since the grand jury, famously trigger-happy, failed to indict), but that's not why I believe Terri is innocent. I believe she is innocent because of the evidence that has been released. The timeline doesn't have any room for a murder, and so far Terri (despite the early comments from Desiree that she couldn't account for her day properly) has been proven correct in everything she stated. None of the scenarios posited for the supposed murder/abduction of Kyron by Terri make sense with regards to the evidence.

If every LE organization involved in this agree that Terri is the main suspect (and I doubt they do), well, I think that has proven fruitless and someone should try looking at some different angles. They've achieved a grand total of nothing over twelve years - what do they have to lose?

 

[mom2chloe]

You're kind of arguing two different things here. One is that parents will do anything for their kids. The other is that parents will do anything to keep custody of their kids. The two are not the same. Giving your child up to give her a normal semblance of a life while you're being left in legal limbo by the police and constantly harassed by family and strangers alike is doing anything for your kid. Can you give your child a good life while yours is in shambles?

It's weird, people keep arguing that she's selfish, but all I see is that she's castigated for not being selfish enough. She's putting her child's wants and needs over her own.

See, I don't believe that they have any extra evidence (since the grand jury, famously trigger-happy, failed to indict), but that's not why I believe Terri is innocent. I believe she is innocent because of the evidence that has been released. The timeline doesn't have any room for a murder, and so far Terri (despite the early comments from Desiree that she couldn't account for her day properly) has been proven correct in everything she stated. None of the scenarios posited for the supposed murder/abduction of Kyron by Terri make sense with regards to the evidence.

If every LE organization involved in this agree that Terri is the main suspect (and I doubt they do), well, I think that has proven fruitless and someone should try looking at some different angles. They've achieved a grand total of nothing over twelve years - what do they have to lose?

IMHO you’re not lucky enough (here at least) to find many sympathetic to TH’s predicament. She made her bed and will likely sleep like a baby in said bed until her time is up. Tick tock. Also IMO.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Terri was putting herself first, protecting herself, which she has a legal right to do. But we know what is legal is not always the same as what is ethical or moral. If she was innocent, she was in good hands, with the outstanding attorney in her court, who had gotten many clients acquitted or reduced sentences. If she was inncocent , she had her attorney, and the truth, and right, and legality on her side. And yes, sometimes innocent people are convicted, but Terri ain't one of them. MO

I don't doubt her lawyer could get her off with the flimsy case against her, but he hasn't been given the chance to do so. There has been no indictment, no trial, and despite the failure of LE to persuade the Grand Jury, no official clearing. That leaves her in limbo while the police "build their case" (for twelve years) and keep schtum, and while Desiree et al wage a never-ending public campaign against her.

She (likely) has her attorney, the truth, right and legality on her side, but it matters little if she never gets a chance to prove it.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

IMHO you’re not lucky enough (here at least) to find many sympathetic to TH’s predicament. She made her bed and will likely sleep like a baby in said bed until her time is up. Tick tock. Also IMO.

I've never been bothered by the (un)popularity of my arguments. Facts should stand and fall on their own.

I do hope someone new gets to look at the case, someone who's investigative methods are more methodical and less (as is my impression of the earlier investigation) desperate flailing.

 

[perfectingpink]

This is all I've got right now. ‍

 

[ReadySet]

Nah. The idea that Terri is innocent and gave up her daughter so she could have a better life? Nope. Her supposed belief that she was a poor innocent person who would always be targeted and harassed her whole life was an assumption. And even if that were true, parents who love their children know that no matter what difficulties there are in life, their kids will have a better life with them than without them. She didn't even go after partial custody or visitation or staying in contact with her in any way. Millions of moms have gone through much greater difficulties than Terri, and didn't decide to GIVE THEIR CHILDREN UP FOREVER.
And, she had nothing good to say about Kaine. Why would she leave her child with him?
Terri is waiting until her child is no longer a minor, and she fantasizes that she will find her and they will live happily ever after.
moo

And I'm still waiting for this:
Can anyyone cite a case where a parent INNOCENT of a disappearance/death/crime they were suspected of, gave up custody of a very young child because they thought they MIGHT go to prison? They thought they or their child MIGHT be harrassed in the future? They thought they MIGHT not be able to earn a good living? I'm very interested to hear about those folks.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Same goes for her friend. The close contact and burner phones would have been suspicious - had they occurred before Kyron went missing. Instead they happened after Terri had been painted as a suspect, which honestly speaks against Dede's involvement. And similarly, her abscence from lunch on the day of the abduction is one of those things that sounds bad until you realize that her car was parked there the whole time and there was no phone contact between Terri and Dede.

I don't think we can say for certain there was no close contact or use of burner phones between Terri and Dede before Kyron went missing.

Google maps offer verification that sufficient time existed for Terri to drive from the "suspicious" ping location to the flower farm where Dede was working; pick Dede up, and proceed to the gym arriving at 11:39 am.

According to long ago media reports, witnesses who worked at the gym were called before the grand jury to testify that Terri completed a short workout, collected her baby, and stood "passing the time" at the front desk area for about 15 minutes. Waiting?

After disappearing at approximately 10:10 am, Terri would have realized it was critical to appear in an irrefutable public setting after almost 90 minutes had passed. 90 crucial minutes in her timeline of the day her 7-year-old stepson disappeared, minutes for which she has never been able to sufficiently account.

It would seem to me, in my humble opinion, that understanding the necessity to keep the gap in her timeline from lengthening to 2-hours or more, Terri arranged for a little help from a friend. A friend who may have been at the school earlier and been involved with the plot from the inception. (Dede had to be at work at 9 am. The flower farm is close to Skyline, so plenty of time to get there after the 8:45 am bell).

This is exactly why, IMO, Dede's vehicle stayed parked at the flower farm the whole time and why she inexplicably left her cell phone inside her vehicle on that day, of all days. Something that was uncharacteristic of her to do--by her own account.

Burner phones would make communication between the pair untraceable and having her vehicle parked in its assigned spot all day would cement Dede's own alibi.

This suggests to me, in my opinion only, that the possibility exists for plenty of illicit contact between Terri and Dede"--"close" and via "burner phones" long before Kyron seemingly vanished.

One last point, the timeline, with "Terri" departing the gym at 12:40 pm, offers sufficient time for Dede to be dropped off at the flower farm and make her way to the private residence for the free buffet, even though it was a bit cold and picked over by other staff members, by 1:00 pm. The 1:00 pm time comes, of course, from Dede's own timeline as to when she suddenly surfaced.

 

[Truth Prevails]

I don't doubt her lawyer could get her off with the flimsy case against her, but he hasn't been given the chance to do so. There has been no indictment, no trial, and despite the failure of LE to persuade the Grand Jury, no official clearing. That leaves her in limbo while the police "build their case" (for twelve years) and keep schtum, and while Desiree et al wage a never-ending public campaign against her.

She (likely) has her attorney, the truth, right and legality on her side, but it matters little if she never gets a chance to prove it.

Wouldn't the first step to proving her innocence begin with sitting down with law enforcement and telling them the truth? I'm pretty sure I've heard that law enforcement has offered her an open invitation to sit down with them at any time that's convenient for her.

Also, IMO, Terri does plenty of her own "campaigning" against Desiree. Does anyone remember the flyer she made and posted on a tree near her parent's home? It contained a picture of Kyron which she had taken and labeled on Facebook as Kyron's "monkey" face. I'm sure there are many other examples.

 

[Truth Prevails]

She failed one polygraph and walked out on the second. While the results aren’t admissible evidence, her demeanor and actions and statements during those examinations, are.

And then she went back for a third and failed that one, too.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

I don't think we can say for certain there was no close contact or use of burner phones between Terri and Dede before Kyron went missing.

Google maps offer verification that sufficient time existed for Terri to drive from the "suspicious" ping location to the flower farm where Dede was working; pick Dede up, and proceed to the gym arriving at 11:39 am.

According to long ago media reports, witnesses who worked at the gym were called before the grand jury to testify that Terri completed a short workout, collected her baby, and stood "passing the time" at the front desk area for about 15 minutes. Waiting?

After disappearing at approximately 10:10 am, Terri would have realized it was critical to appear in an irrefutable public setting after almost 90 minutes had passed. 90 crucial minutes in her timeline of the day her 7-year-old stepson disappeared, minutes for which she has never been able to sufficiently account.

It would seem to me, in my humble opinion, that understanding the necessity to keep the gap in her timeline from lengthening to 2-hours or more, Terri arranged for a little help from a friend. A friend who may have been at the school earlier and been involved with the plot from the inception. (Dede had to be at work at 9 am. The flower farm is close to Skyline, so plenty of time to get there after the 8:45 am bell).

This is exactly why, IMO, Dede's vehicle stayed parked at the flower farm the whole time and why she inexplicably left her cell phone inside her vehicle on that day, of all days. Something that was uncharacteristic of her to do--by her own account.

Burner phones would make communication between the pair untraceable and having her vehicle parked in its assigned spot all day would cement Dede's own alibi.

This suggests to me, in my opinion only, that the possibility exists for plenty of illicit contact between Terri and Dede"--"close" and via "burner phones" long before Kyron seemingly vanished.

One last point, the timeline, with "Terri" departing the gym at 12:40 pm, offers sufficient time for Dede to be dropped off at the flower farm and make her way to the private residence for the free buffet, even though it was a bit cold and picked over by other staff members, by 1:00 pm. The 1:00 pm time comes, of course, from Dede's own timeline as to when she suddenly surfaced.

There is no evidence for any of this, but where I think it falters is that Dede inserted herself fairly publicly into Terri's life after the abduction and Kaine's leaving. That's when she got the burner phones (after they realized Terri's phones were being tapped). Dede is needed because even those who believe in Terri's guilt know that her timeline doesn't make sense for her having done it, but if Dede assisted her, why on earth would she draw attention to herself like that? If they had used burner phones earlier, why would they get new ones well after the abduction? It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

The theory also doesn't make sense with regards to Kyron. Terri didn't have time to kill him before her errands, so he would have been in her truck for an hour and a half, including two public parkings where he would have sat in it alone. And then what? Was he handed over to Dede? To do what? She didn't have her car, so did she take a hike with him into the woods?

Wouldn't the first step to proving her innocence begin with sitting down with law enforcement and telling them the truth? I'm pretty sure I've heard that law enforcement has offered her an open invitation to sit down with them at any time that's convenient for her.

Also, IMO, Terri does plenty of her own "campaigning" against Desiree. Does anyone remember the flyer she made and posted on a tree near her parent's home? It contained a picture of Kyron which she had taken and labeled on Facebook as Kyron's "monkey" face. I'm sure there are many other examples.

Except she has sat down with law enforcement and told them the truth. At length. The problem when you tell LE the truth and they tell you you're lying is that there's nothing you can say to make them believe you. Especially when LE still rely on voodoo science like polygraphs. Terri has said she's willing to sit down with LE at any time. She just wants her lawyer with her.

I don't even know what the "monkey face" flyer was supposed to be and why it was "against Desiree".

 

[Truth Prevails]

There's just nothing there. With a timeline as tight as this, there really needs to be some compelling evidence, yet there isn't.

A timeline with a 90-minute gap in it is not, IMO, a tight timeline. I know everyone knows this, but this is a very serious case of a missing 7-year-old child. She was his stepmother and one of the last persons known to have been with him.

A phone ping appearing in an area out of range of the area where she "thought" she was driving a baby around at the time deserves an explanation.

So does failing her polys when the questions became centered around where she had last seen Kyron, as Kaine has said in media clips.

 

[Truth Prevails]

IMHO you’re not lucky enough (here at least) to find many sympathetic to TH’s predicament. She made her bed and will likely sleep like a baby in said bed until her time is up. Tick tock. Also IMO.

I'm not so sure about the first part of this post, but I agree wholeheartedly with the statement bolded by me.

 

[Truth Prevails]

You know, from my perspective, it seems like Terri is a bit more unselfish than that. She'd rather have her child grow up in normalcy away from her than in a chaotic, uncertain life with her.

Terri lived and breathed for that child, to the point of having a baby--her baby--replace Kyron, her step-son, in at least one school photo. There is something very wrong with that, IMO.

If she has a heart, it had to break into a thousand pieces to walk away from her only daughter. I don't see her doing that for altruistic reasons. I see her doing that out of extreme selfish (because a daughter needs a mother) desperation. To keep herself from spending many, many years in prison, for example.

 

[ReadySet]

Terri's child was just a toddler. What innocent person walks away from a tiny child because they have been falsely accused? IMO Terri struggled as a parent. Kyron (she called herself his mother) didn't make it past age 7; and her daughter was only in her care a few years. Her oldest child was in the care of others off and on throughout his life.
IMO she had a pattern and a history of being unable or unwilling to take the full responsibility of being a parent. There are other parents who have had the same problem, but they are not suspects in the disappearance of a child that they claimed they knew better than anyone else.

Terri stopped talking to LE after what, three and a half weeks? So she stopped helping to find Kyron. If she knew him better than anyone, and spent more time with him than anyone, wouldn't she be the most likely person to think of ideas to help LE? Did she never wake up in the middle of the night and think, "Oh! There was that one guy who was watching us! There was that one place we went! There was that one situation Kyron was in! What about this? What about that? Have you looked here or there? Have you interviewed this person?"

I don't believe that she told LE everything she could think of in the short time she spoke to LE. More than anyone, according to her, she would have thought of other things for LE to look into.

imo

 

[Truth Prevails]

There is no evidence for any of this, but where I think it falters is that Dede inserted herself fairly publicly into Terri's life after the abduction and Kaine's leaving. That's when she got the burner phones (after they realized Terri's phones were being tapped). Dede is needed because even those who believe in Terri's guilt know that her timeline doesn't make sense for her having done it, but if Dede assisted her, why on earth would she draw attention to herself like that? If they had used burner phones earlier, why would they get new ones well after the abduction? It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense.

The theory also doesn't make sense with regards to Kyron. Terri didn't have time to kill him before her errands, so he would have been in her truck for an hour and a half, including two public parkings where he would have sat in it alone. And then what? Was he handed over to Dede? To do what? She didn't have her car, so did she take a hike with him into the woods?

We know about the burner phones they got when their phones were tapped because of media reports. We don't know what was held back from the press. Hopefully, I stated enough times in my previous post that it was my opinion only, and once again I state that it is my opinion only that it is extremely likely that the two of them would have had burner phones on the day of Kyron's disappearance. It makes perfect sense to me that they would get rid of those particular phones--possibly used in the plotting and kidnapping of a child--as soon as possible. In fact, I suspect that's one of the things being done while Terri was at the gym. The phones would be extremely "hot" evidence to leave around for law enforcement to stumble across. A burner phone is only untraceable until the number is discovered.

IMO, Terri and Dede are smug and confident people who very much like to draw attention to themselves. Especially when they think they have outsmarted law enforcement.

Early in this case, there were many media articles asking the public for help pertaining to the parking locations of Kaine's white Ford F250 prior to 8:45 am on the morning of June 4th--had it moved while Terri was still in the school and/or had another person been seen in or around it. We never heard anything about the outcome of this. I mention this here because, to me, it opens up the possibility of Kyron being "passed off" to another person--a third party perhaps.

Another possibility I contemplate, even though I know it's equally unpopular, is whether Kyron was forced to go with someone else between the locations of the two Fred Meyer locations. There had to be a reason why she parked so far back at both stores.

It would not take much time to end the life of a frail little boy. Minutes maybe. They both have at least 90 of them missing from their respective timelines.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Except she has sat down with law enforcement and told them the truth. At length. The problem when you tell LE the truth and they tell you you're lying is that there's nothing you can say to make them believe you. Especially when LE still rely on voodoo science like polygraphs. Terri has said she's willing to sit down with LE at any time. She just wants her lawyer with her.

I don't even know what the "monkey face" flyer was supposed to be and why it was "against Desiree".

The proof of truth is in the details. You know, the little things like having your phone ping where you actually said you were. It's in your willingness to answer their questions over and over and over again. It's in your consistency. It's in your patience to sit through it all and co-operate. Because your child is missing and you want, you need, him to be found. It's in your ability to be able to account for your whereabouts. When law enforcement checks--and they will in a case of this magnitude--all the pieces will snap into place and they can move on. That didn't happen.

Couldn't she bring her lawyer with her? However, if he simply advises her not to answer any questions, wouldn't that be a waste of everyone's time? And there would be a reason he would advise her not to answer any questions. I strongly suspect it's wouldn't be because she is innocent.

Some things, like that nasty flyer, don't deserve discussion. Let's suffice it to say that its purpose wasn't to help find Kyron.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

We know about the burner phones they got when their phones were tapped because of media reports. We don't know what was held back from the press. Hopefully, I stated enough times in my previous post that it was my opinion only, and once again I state that it is my opinion only that it is extremely likely that the two of them would have had burner phones on the day of Kyron's disappearance. It makes perfect sense to me that they would get rid of those particular phones--possibly used in the plotting and kidnapping of a child--as soon as possible. In fact, I suspect that's one of the things being done while Terri was at the gym. The phones would be extremely "hot" evidence to leave around for law enforcement to stumble across. A burner phone is only untraceable until the number is discovered.

IMO, Terri and Dede are smug and confident people who very much like to draw attention to themselves. Especially when they think they have outsmarted law enforcement.

Early in this case, there were many media articles asking the public for help pertaining to the parking locations of Kaine's white Ford F250 prior to 8:45 am on the morning of June 4th--had it moved while Terri was still in the school and/or had another person been seen in or around it. We never heard anything about the outcome of this. I mention this here because, to me, it opens up the possibility of Kyron being "passed off" to another person--a third party perhaps.

Another possibility I contemplate, even though I know it's equally unpopular, is whether Kyron was forced to go with someone else between the locations of the two Fred Meyer locations. There had to be a reason why she parked so far back at both stores.

It would not take much time to end the life of a frail little boy. Minutes maybe. They both have at least 90 of them missing from their respective timelines.

Your idea that they got new burner phones after the abduction because they were confident they'd gotten away with it doesn't mesh with the fact that when they got those burner phones Terri knew she was a suspect - that is the whole reason she, Dede and the third woman got them, her regular phone was being tapped.

But I think the white truck may be the key - to the police's tunnel vision and perhaps even the whole case. They're not exactly rare, are they? If Terri parked at the shoulder of the road as she said, and there were sightings at the access road, at the back parking lot, etc, then that indicates multiple white trucks. Easy enough to confuse eye witnesses, who had no particular reason to commit particular trucks to memory that morning, but would now be eager to help the police. Certainly there's no reason for the truck to have moved while Terri and Kyron were in the school.

Then consider Sauvie Island. A week after the abduction, the search (which had been limited to a few miles around the school) suddenly jumps away to Sauvie Island, well away from the school. What little info that gets out talks about "several Sauvie Island residents" seeing a truck similar to the Horman's on the day of the abduction. Now combine it with the phone records, which is vaguely cited as a reason for the SI searches. However, SI is too far away to fit properly into Terri's timeline (not to mention there being a bridge camera, and the only cell tower that covers the island also covers the nearby mainland where Terri always claims to have been at the time).

Finally, there's the witness who claims to have seen a white truck with Terri up the road from the SI bridge. We know he didn't see Terri because she was in Beaverton at the time.

Add them all together and what do you get? Multiple white trucks sighted at multiple locations including the school that day. So, if anyone saw Kyron by a white truck at the school? Or saw an unknown person standing by a white truck? It doesn't have to have been Terri.

And if we're supposing a third party got a hold of Kyron as early as at the school? Well, I'd invoke Occam's razor and say what's the need to involve Terri at all? A third party lured Kyron out of the school and drove away, possibly in a white truck.