Kyron Horman Discussion Thread 2020 - 2022

[FergusMcDuck]

The proof of truth is in the details. You know, the little things like having your phone ping where you actually said you were. It's in your willingness to answer their questions over and over and over again. It's in your consistency. It's in your patience to sit through it all and co-operate. Because your child is missing and you want, you need, him to be found. It's in your ability to be able to account for your whereabouts. When law enforcement checks--and they will in a case of this magnitude--all the pieces will snap into place and they can move on. That didn't happen.

Couldn't she bring her lawyer with her? However, if he simply advises her not to answer any questions, wouldn't that be a waste of everyone's time? And there would be a reason he would advise her not to answer any questions. I strongly suspect it's wouldn't be because she is innocent.

Some things, like that nasty flyer, don't deserve discussion. Let's suffice it to say that its purpose wasn't to help find Kyron.

It is indeed in the details, and that's why I believe she's innocent. She proved her timeline with evidence, receipts, cctv footage and witness testimonies.

The idea that police can't make mistakes, get tunnel vision and focus on the wrong person to the detriment of the case is a popular one, but also one with tons of experience against it. Brittanee Drexel, Jacob Wetterling, Meredith Kercher, Madeline McCann, the list goes on. Innocence has never been a defense against this. I suspect Terri was disabused of it quickly. She sat with them, answered their questions repeatedly and gave them the evidence, and they still didn't believe her (and if it turns out that they cite the polygraph as a reason for not believing her, I'll just despair. Honestly wish we could just dismantle those idiotic toys altogether). Again, what can she do? Tell them the truth a tenth time and hope that's the charm?

The police may say they have a standing invitation to her, but they haven't actually contacted her about it, so they must not want it that bad.

 

[Truth Prevails]

Your idea that they got new burner phones after the abduction because they were confident they'd gotten away with it doesn't mesh with the fact that when they got those burner phones Terri knew she was a suspect - that is the whole reason she, Dede and the third woman got them, her regular phone was being tapped.

My idea is--if they had burner phones prior to Kyron's disappearance; and if those phones were used in the planning and execution of Kyron's disappearance--Terri and Dede would have realized that both those phones had to be disposed of as soon as possible. That "idea" is able to stand on its own, not needing to "mesh" with any facts pertaining to why new burner phones were later purchased. At least in my opinion.

But the fact that burner phones were purchased after Kyron's disappearance is interesting. Do you know what I would do if I was innocent and discovered LE was tapping my phone after the kidnapping and disappearance of my 7-year-old stepson? Admittedly I wouldn't appreciate it, but I would do absolutely nothing. What would I hide if I had nothing to hide? Bring it on, I would think. Hurry up and get what you need to understand that I had nothing to do with it. I think that's how innocent people would respond. That is certainly not what we saw here.

But I think the white truck may be the key - to the police's tunnel vision and perhaps even the whole case. They're not exactly rare, are they? If Terri parked at the shoulder of the road as she said, and there were sightings at the access road, at the back parking lot, etc, then that indicates multiple white trucks. Easy enough to confuse eye witnesses, who had no particular reason to commit particular trucks to memory that morning, but would now be eager to help the police. Certainly there's no reason for the truck to have moved while Terri and Kyron were in the school.

Then consider Sauvie Island. A week after the abduction, the search (which had been limited to a few miles around the school) suddenly jumps away to Sauvie Island, well away from the school. What little info that gets out talks about "several Sauvie Island residents" seeing a truck similar to the Horman's on the day of the abduction. Now combine it with the phone records, which is vaguely cited as a reason for the SI searches. However, SI is too far away to fit properly into Terri's timeline (not to mention there being a bridge camera, and the only cell tower that covers the island also covers the nearby mainland where Terri always claims to have been at the time).

Finally, there's the witness who claims to have seen a white truck with Terri up the road from the SI bridge. We know he didn't see Terri because she was in Beaverton at the time.

Add them all together and what do you get? Multiple white trucks sighted at multiple locations including the school that day. So, if anyone saw Kyron by a white truck at the school? Or saw an unknown person standing by a white truck? It doesn't have to have been Terri.

And if we're supposing a third party got a hold of Kyron as early as at the school? Well, I'd invoke Occam's razor and say what's the need to involve Terri at all? A third party lured Kyron out of the school and drove away, possibly in a white truck.

Well, I think, at least early on, Terri said she parked in the south-side parking lot that morning. (The same parking lot used by the busses). I think it was brought to the attention of LE that the vehicle may have been moved to the shoulder of the road/beginning of the access road to the soccer field area while Terri, Kyron, and the baby were inside the school.

In my opinion, law enforcement was looking for that one elusive witness who could have confirmed this. Someone who would be able to say they could easily recognize Kaine's F250 from all the other white trucks and had a reason for remembering it on that morning. Say they had to stop to let it back out, and while doing so they had a good enough view of the person driving to make a positive identification of that person. In other words, a credible witness who could possibly take the stand.

But we never heard what they found. If anything at all.

It might be good to remember that even by Terri's account, Kyron was inside Skyline School when the 8:45 am bell rang. So was she and the baby.

 

[Truth Prevails]

It is indeed in the details, and that's why I believe she's innocent. She proved her timeline with evidence, receipts, cctv footage and witness testimonies.

The idea that police can't make mistakes, get tunnel vision and focus on the wrong person to the detriment of the case is a popular one, but also one with tons of experience against it. Brittanee Drexel, Jacob Wetterling, Meredith Kercher, Madeline McCann, the list goes on. Innocence has never been a defense against this. I suspect Terri was disabused of it quickly. She sat with them, answered their questions repeatedly and gave them the evidence, and they still didn't believe her (and if it turns out that they cite the polygraph as a reason for not believing her, I'll just despair. Honestly wish we could just dismantle those idiotic toys altogether). Again, what can she do? Tell them the truth a tenth time and hope that's the charm?

The police may say they have a standing invitation to her, but they haven't actually contacted her about it, so they must not want it that bad.

Terri has never been able to satisfactorily explain what she was doing during the 90 minutes between when she left the 2nd Fred Meyer location and when she arrived at the gym. Why?

In my opinion, if she were to go and tell the truth it would be for the first time, not the 10th time.

Oh, LE wants "it". What they don't want is to be named in a harassment lawsuit.

 

[rosesfromangels]

What is DDS, TH’s BFF doing these days? I always thought she would be the one to move this case forward. Didn’t she plead the 5th at some point, or am I misremembering that?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

Kyron is really on my mind today...

We've all asked how a little boy disappears from school without someone/anyone noticing.
I understand it was a day full of activity with the science fair, which effected normal supervision of the children. IIRC, one of the last documented sitings was Kyron's friend "T" who purportedly saw him at approx. 9am the day of the science fair. And of course, the now infamous photo that TH took of Kryon in front of his science project before she left the school to "run errands".

Despite all the activity, how exactly does a little boy allegedly get abducted in broad daylight from his school?!

Well...what if the abductor was hiding in plain sight? Someone who just blends right in, someone you see, but don't see?

IIRC, it is alleged that TH attempted a murder for hire of her now ex-husband KH. This alleged revelation came from a gardener (IIRC), that TH attempted to hire to do the dastardly deed.

If we assume she repeated this M.O., could she have hired a similar type of uniformed worker who blended in at the school? (Seen, but unseen). I hope everyone who might have fallen in to this profile was poly'ed? I am also struck by the fact that her BFF, D-D S, worked in landscaping/gardening....and then of course the alleged hiring of a gardener hit man? What is it with TH and gardeners? Really stands out for me.

All the above is just pure amateur opinion and speculation.
Just today's pondering of how this precious child "vanished in to thin air".

"Seen but unseen"

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[osu]

What is DDS, TH’s BFF doing these days? I always thought she would be the one to move this case forward. Didn’t she plead the 5th at some point, or am I misremembering that?

Amateur opinion and speculation

DDS works as a medical supervisor at Sky Lakes Medical Center in Klamath Falls, OR. She has said for several years now to have been granted immunity by the DA’s office in the case but AFAIK nothing official has ever been released corroborating that claim.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dede-spicher-7b30b5172

ETA: Dede Spicher says she signed immunity deal in Kyron case

JMHO

 

[osu]

What is DDS, TH’s BFF doing these days? I always thought she would be the one to move this case forward. Didn’t she plead the 5th at some point, or am I misremembering that?

Amateur opinion and speculation

DDS pleaded the fifth 148 times during the deposition.

‘In the October 5th deposition, Spicher cited the Fifth when asked if she knew Terri and members of Kyron's family -- or if she knew where the boy was.

Lawyers for Kyron’s mother Desiree Young are trying to compel Spicher's testimony, alleging state law does not allow Spicher’s refusal to answer in regards to questions that do not incriminate the witness in a criminal matter.

Attorneys grilled Spicher in more than 140 questions in the deposition. Among them; whether she knew if Terri had planned to harm Kyron, if she was aware that her employer at the time told reporters that Spicher was unaccountable at the time of Kyron's disappearance, and whether she had ever bought a disposable phone.

Spicher pleads 5th in Terri Horman case

 

[JustinW]

I think Kyron walking off on his own is of course possible, but highly unlikely. By all accounts I’ve seen, he was a well-behaved 7 year old, who was not bold or likely to do things like that. A child like that, at a safe place to him, excited about the day doesn’t seem likely to walk off. The area around the school was extensively searched. The most extensive search in Oregon history. How far could he have walked? Particularly if he was off the roads in areas he could disappear. 1 mile? 2? And no one saw him? There have been plenty of accounts of remains being missed, even though there were thorough searches. But to never be found if he was just lost in the area and perished after 12 years? Seems very unlikely. That area has a lot of undeveloped land, and a child could easily become lost, but it is definitely not the middle of no where or miles and miles of wilderness. He would have ended up somewhere a small 7 year old physically could. With all the searching and attention this case has had no one would have found him?

You ever see a younger kid walking down the road and think,”they are too young to be alone”. Someone would have noticed him, most likely. And that’s IF he wandered off, which seems like a 1% chance in this case.

Someone took him. But who? And how do you prove it? The most likely suspect is the step mom. That’s just statistics. Even without any supporting evidence. It could have been anyone, though. Unless someone who knows for sure points investigators to REAL, concrete evidence, I have no idea how they’ll solve it. It’s sad. It’s shocking the school had no cameras. I’m glad school security has been improving.

 

[ReadySet]

I believe that Kyron will be found one day; and that Terri will end up in prison.

IMO

 

[FergusMcDuck]

My idea is--if they had burner phones prior to Kyron's disappearance; and if those phones were used in the planning and execution of Kyron's disappearance--Terri and Dede would have realized that both those phones had to be disposed of as soon as possible. That "idea" is able to stand on its own, not needing to "mesh" with any facts pertaining to why new burner phones were later purchased. At least in my opinion.

The meshing is the idea that they bought the second set because they were arrogant and didn't believe they would be caught, but they were well aware of the police suspecting Terri when they were bought, so that can hardly be it.

But the fact that burner phones were purchased after Kyron's disappearance is interesting. Do you know what I would do if I was innocent and discovered LE was tapping my phone after the kidnapping and disappearance of my 7-year-old stepson? Admittedly I wouldn't appreciate it, but I would do absolutely nothing. What would I hide if I had nothing to hide? Bring it on, I would think. Hurry up and get what you need to understand that I had nothing to do with it. I think that's how innocent people would respond. That is certainly not what we saw here.

Except when the phones were bought, not only had the police made clear that they refused to believe Terri, they had attempted the disastrously incompentent sting operation against her. She was aware they were tapping her phones, and telling the truth hadn't seemed to help.

Again, innocence has never been a defense against the police when they get tunnel vision.

Well, I think, at least early on, Terri said she parked in the south-side parking lot that morning. (The same parking lot used by the busses). I think it was brought to the attention of LE that the vehicle may have been moved to the shoulder of the road/beginning of the access road to the soccer field area while Terri, Kyron, and the baby were inside the school.

You know, I tried to look it up, because I was certain I had heard that she parked by the road (not the access road), but now I can't find it. It can be really hard to find particular info on this case, I must say.

But I do think either position still supports my opinion. People place the truck (i.e. a white truck) at multiple places around the school. There was this article from August 9th 2010, saying two witnesses had seen someone not Terri in "her" truck (i.e. a white truck). In a subsequent interview Desiree implies it was a man (and at least one witness, and some youths on facebook, saw an unknown man at the school).

I suspect an unknown man lured Kyron out to his truck and drove away. This is the truck that was seen with someone other than Terri in it, and the man mentioned in Terri's email, facebook chatter and other places. Unfortunately, any white truck became synonymous with Terri's truck once the posters began to spread.

In my opinion, law enforcement was looking for that one elusive witness who could have confirmed this. Someone who would be able to say they could easily recognize Kaine's F250 from all the other white trucks and had a reason for remembering it on that morning. Say they had to stop to let it back out, and while doing so they had a good enough view of the person driving to make a positive identification of that person. In other words, a credible witness who could possibly take the stand.

But we never heard what they found. If anything at all.

It might be good to remember that even by Terri's account, Kyron was inside Skyline School when the 8:45 am bell rang. So was she and the baby.

And 300 people, with lax security and no control on who came and went.

It occurs to me that if Terri had not become the main suspect, the school would have been heavily criticized. They let a child vanish while they had him in custody. They failed to note him as absent for an hour and then neglected to call his parents. They didn't keep tabs on who came and went, and there were no cameras. They really lucked out there.

Terri has never been able to satisfactorily explain what she was doing during the 90 minutes between when she left the 2nd Fred Meyer location and when she arrived at the gym. Why?

Really? She said she was driving on rural roads to soothe her baby. Not only is this a perfectly common practice among parents of small children, there has never been anything presented against it. If the fabled Sauvie Island ping exists, it corroborates her story, since the cell tower service that island also services those rural roads.

 

[sketchyjen33]

<modsnip - discussion about non-approved source>

Now....as far as your assumption about the white trucks. There very well could have been multiple parents that had white Fords parked in different locations that day, at different times. But everyone that was at the school was questioned (AFAIK) and no one ever stated "hey, I have a white Ford truck that I parked on this side of the school" that we know of. To have a complete stranger show up in a school and walk out with a child is just on the very low side of the chart. Especially if we are to believe Desiree about how fearful Kyron was of new people and about being able to see clearly.

 

[FergusMcDuck]

<modsnip - discussion about and from non-approved source>

<modsnip - discussion from non-approved source>

Now....as far as your assumption about the white trucks. There very well could have been multiple parents that had white Fords parked in different locations that day, at different times. But everyone that was at the school was questioned (AFAIK) and no one ever stated "hey, I have a white Ford truck that I parked on this side of the school" that we know of. To have a complete stranger show up in a school and walk out with a child is just on the very low side of the chart. Especially if we are to believe Desiree about how fearful Kyron was of new people and about being able to see clearly.

And yet Kyron had also been told to listen to authority figures.

 

[NeverPersonal]

It is indeed in the details, and that's why I believe she's innocent. She proved her timeline with evidence, receipts, cctv footage and witness testimonies.

The idea that police can't make mistakes, get tunnel vision and focus on the wrong person to the detriment of the case is a popular one, but also one with tons of experience against it. Brittanee Drexel, Jacob Wetterling, Meredith Kercher, Madeline McCann, the list goes on. Innocence has never been a defense against this. I suspect Terri was disabused of it quickly. She sat with them, answered their questions repeatedly and gave them the evidence, and they still didn't believe her (and if it turns out that they cite the polygraph as a reason for not believing her, I'll just despair. Honestly wish we could just dismantle those idiotic toys altogether). Again, what can she do? Tell them the truth a tenth time and hope that's the charm?

The police may say they have a standing invitation to her, but they haven't actually contacted her about it, so they must not want it that bad.

I know ours isn't a particularly popular opinion, but I agree with you through and through; I feel very badly for the stepmother.

 

[Jellyroll]

Yeah, these witnesses being revealed after a decade, and filtered through a book rather than LE does raise red flags. Also, if they had told these stories back in 2010, the police investigation would have looked very different.

Honestly, I don't think Terri did it, based on the facts that have been made public. Maybe the police sits on a throve of unpublished evidence that damns her, but I think if that was the case they would have arrested her by now. She gave a timeline of her actions that day and not only was she able to support pretty much all of it with evidence, it leaves no room to any serious scenario that involves her in the disappearance.

Same goes for her friend. The close contact and burner phones would have been suspicious - had they occurred before Kyron went missing. Instead they happened after Terri had been painted as a suspect, which honestly speaks against Dede's involvement. And similarly, her abscence from lunch on the day of the abduction is one of those things that sounds bad until you realize that her car was parked there the whole time and there was no phone contact between Terri and Dede.

I don't doubt that the police think Terri did it - I suspect they got some early sightings of a white truck at Sauvee Island and then the ping from the tower that served said island (as well as the surrounding countryside) cemented the idea and caused tunnel vision - but they obviously have nothing on her. Probably because there's nothing to have.

If you’re hoping for something like DNA evidence, there won’t be any. Maybe Terri is completely innocent, but she acts the way a guilty person would.

I think this case is another instance where the simplest explanation is the correct one. Statistically, Terri (a step-parent) is the most likely to be the perpetrator.

Terri didn’t want Kyron. She told Desiree to come get him at one point but Desiree was stopped by Kaine. Kyron lived with Kaine because Kaine and the dad of Desiree’s other son banded together to figure out how they could avoid paying child support to Desiree. It’s a long story so I’m not going to write it out.

Terri was the last one to see him.
She took the photo of him with his science project. Innocent? Maybe. But also something she would do if she was guilty, because it ensured there was solid proof he had been in school. She took him around to see his kindergarten teacher. Another witness that he was at school that day before the morning bell rang.

She didn’t see him go inside his classroom (because he didn’t), but she “has a vision of his head near the door”. This is a bizarre statement. Why not “I dropped him off and saw him walk down the hall to his classroom”? Because it didn’t happen. Who else could’ve grabbed Kyron before he went inside his classroom? He was timid and had poor eyesight *even with his glasses* (this makes me enraged as a parent; the glasses should’ve given him 20/20 vision. That’s what they’re for). And if I understand correctly, his classroom was on the second floor, not the ground floor.

He wasn’t lured away. He went with someone he knew. And someone he knew was right there, and had told teachers he would miss school on Friday because he had a Dr appointment.

Terri went to two drug stores to find whatever it was she was shopping for. It could be innocent, but it’s also exactly what a guilty person would do to establish an alibi. Whatever she bought was never found by police.

Terri drove around for 90 minutes to “soothe her daughter’s ear ache”. First of all, if it’s an ear infection, driving around won’t make that pain go away. If she’s going to drive around for an hour and a half, she should’ve been driving to an urgent care for abx. Kaine worked as an engineer at Intel so it’s basically impossible they didn’t have insurance. In other words, there was no reason not to get an ear infection treated immediately. If she gave her cold medicine, it takes a NSAID 20 minutes to start reducing pain. A better place for baby K to rest would be in bed, not a car seat.

Then, with a sick baby, she goes to the gym. The clerk or whatever at the gym said Terri didn’t exercise while she was there. This is bizarre. She was a gym rat (pro body builder at some point). But she spent the time chatting to a woman. Could be innocent. But it’s out of character and also what a guilty person would do: make sure she was seen there and would be remembered. And she was remembered: the woman she spoke to remembered she had asked Terri about a fresh gash on Terri’s leg. Terri said she dropped a weight on it.

Terri came home and posted the science picture on FB, and emailed Desiree that there was a new picture on FB. Desiree was at work and didn’t see either.

That evening, while the police were setting up a base at the school and getting search set up, Terri washed Kyron’s jacket and backpack. In fact, it turned out that by the time the canine unit got there there was *nothing* with Kyron’s scent on it that they could use.

But no, there’s no DNA evidence. There wouldn’t be unless the murder was bloody, and I don’t think it was. I think she brought Kyron out of school after she made sure he was seen and gave him Benadryl and drove around until he was very drowsy and then put him in a body of water. She even told a friend once that’s where she would hide a body.

JMO

 

[helpfulcharlie]

It's interesting that I've been following this case since the beginning, and there are assertions made in the last few pages that I don't remember seeing before. I wish there was a better platform for source attribution.

 

[rosesfromangels]

It's interesting that I've been following this case since the beginning, and there are assertions made in the last few pages that I don't remember seeing before. I wish there was a better platform for source attribution.

After so much time, I know my recollection of what little is known is fuzzy, despite my attempt to refresh. Please feel free to correct me if I get something wrong.

This case is disturbing at so many levels. If even a quarter of what is alleged is true, it’s just so hard to fathom.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[FergusMcDuck]

If you’re hoping for something like DNA evidence, there won’t be any. Maybe Terri is completely innocent, but she acts the way a guilty person would.

Probably the most dangerous words in true crime: "acts the way a guilty person would"

I think this case is another instance where the simplest explanation is the correct one. Statistically, Terri (a step-parent) is the most likely to be the perpetrator.

And yet there are still plenty of cases where kids were snatched up by solitary predators. Enough to be statistically significant.

Terri didn’t want Kyron. She told Desiree to come get him at one point but Desiree was stopped by Kaine. Kyron lived with Kaine because Kaine and the dad of Desiree’s other son banded together to figure out how they could avoid paying child support to Desiree. It’s a long story so I’m not going to write it out.

If Terri didn't want Kyron, she certainly never showed it. Her social media was full of pictures of him. She was heavily involved in his school and sports. Telling Desiree to "come get him" was actually her trying to help her get more visitations with Desiree, since Kyron said he missed her after coming back. Kaine said no (as per Terri's Dr Phil interview).

I don't know anything about avoiding child support (since Desiree had given up primary care to Kaine, would that even be a thing?), but it is irrelevant to the case, so I'll leave it.

Terri was the last one to see him.
She took the photo of him with his science project. Innocent? Maybe. But also something she would do if she was guilty, because it ensured there was solid proof he had been in school. She took him around to see his kindergarten teacher. Another witness that he was at school that day before the morning bell rang.

So it's something an innocent person would do, and it's also something a guilty person would do. That just tells me it's meaningless to establish guilt.

She didn’t see him go inside his classroom (because he didn’t), but she “has a vision of his head near the door”. This is a bizarre statement. Why not “I dropped him off and saw him walk down the hall to his classroom”? Because it didn’t happen. Who else could’ve grabbed Kyron before he went inside his classroom? He was timid and had poor eyesight *even with his glasses* (this makes me enraged as a parent; the glasses should’ve given him 20/20 vision. That’s what they’re for). And if I understand correctly, his classroom was on the second floor, not the ground floor.

It's not a bizarre statement if you read the whole thing in context:

"I saw him walking down to his room," she said. "My vision of him is the back of his head almost at the door. That's what I see when I sit here and think about him - that's my last thought."

The school is built on a hillside; the west part where Kyron's classroom was is lower than the east side, where the exit to the parking lot is. Said exit is therefore on the second floor. All Terri had to do was turn around and walk a few meters to the east and she'd be out.

He wasn’t lured away. He went with someone he knew. And someone he knew was right there, and had told teachers he would miss school on Friday because he had a Dr appointment.

Wait, so earlier you said she took him to school to make people think he was there, now she fabricated an appointment so they'd think he wasn't? What was the point of bringing Kyron to school and making sure he was seen, then? If she gave them a fake appointment they'll just tell the police Kyron was taken to the doctor by his step-mom - pointing the finger directly at her.

Terri went to two drug stores to find whatever it was she was shopping for. It could be innocent, but it’s also exactly what a guilty person would do to establish an alibi. Whatever she bought was never found by police.

Has the police stated that "whatever she bought" was never found?

Terri drove around for 90 minutes to “soothe her daughter’s ear ache”. First of all, if it’s an ear infection, driving around won’t make that pain go away. If she’s going to drive around for an hour and a half, she should’ve been driving to an urgent care for abx. Kaine worked as an engineer at Intel so it’s basically impossible they didn’t have insurance. In other words, there was no reason not to get an ear infection treated immediately. If she gave her cold medicine, it takes a NSAID 20 minutes to start reducing pain. A better place for baby K to rest would be in bed, not a car seat.

And yet, we don't know what it was. Could just be pain in the ear. Either way, driving around a child to calm and soothe her is something many parents do. Read earlier threads on this forum; people would scoff at the idea until a bunch of parents started piping up: "well, we do that, actually".

It doesn't have to be the optimal treatment, because no parent does the optimal thing every time.

Then, with a sick baby, she goes to the gym. The clerk or whatever at the gym said Terri didn’t exercise while she was there. This is bizarre. She was a gym rat (pro body builder at some point). But she spent the time chatting to a woman. Could be innocent. But it’s out of character and also what a guilty person would do: make sure she was seen there and would be remembered. And she was remembered: the woman she spoke to remembered she had asked Terri about a fresh gash on Terri’s leg. Terri said she dropped a weight on it.

Again, if it's what an innocent person would do and what a guilty person would do, it is meaningless. I haven't heard that she didn't exercise; certainly that hasn't been in any source I've read.

Terri came home and posted the science picture on FB, and emailed Desiree that there was a new picture on FB. Desiree was at work and didn’t see either.

That evening, while the police were setting up a base at the school and getting search set up, Terri washed Kyron’s jacket and backpack. In fact, it turned out that by the time the canine unit got there there was *nothing* with Kyron’s scent on it that they could use.

That wouldn't be the independent, unauthorized dog unit that searched Sauvie Island a month later, would it? Because I wouldn't give that one any clothing either.

But no, there’s no DNA evidence. There wouldn’t be unless the murder was bloody, and I don’t think it was. I think she brought Kyron out of school after she made sure he was seen and gave him Benadryl and drove around until he was very drowsy and then put him in a body of water. She even told a friend once that’s where she would hide a body.

JMO

And I keep coming back to the fact that there isn't the slightest bit of evidence she did that - not even the slightest bit of evidence she was dishonest to the police. As you say, her actions are perfectly compatible with being innocent. We really have to suspend disbelief to get to a guilty scenario.

 

[rosesfromangels]

@FergusMcDuck
Good post.
What about the alleged murder for hire plot?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[FergusMcDuck]

Good post.
What about the alleged murder for hire plot?

Amateur opinion and speculation

It's interesting, and I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the gardener was questioned or gave testimony to the grand jury. Terri claims there was a language barrier and that he hit on her. He says they discussed the murder plot in a restaurant(!?) The sting operation was a complete disaster. They had her phone tapped, for heaven's sake! Couldn't they have done it in a smarter way?

So there's nothing there to make me think it's real. The police certainly haven't provided any evidence except for the landscaper's word. Maybe she complained about Kaine to the landscaper and he took it as an invitation, only to be shot down. Certainly, when he appeared at her house for the sting, she immediately called the police. Terri told Dr Phil the landscaper told the grand jury he had been threatened with deportation if he didn't do the sting operation. I can't say if that's true or not, but given how easy it is to get a grand jury to indict, I suspect there's truth there.

 

[rosesfromangels]

It's interesting, and I'd love to be a fly on the wall when the gardener was questioned or gave testimony to the grand jury. Terri claims there was a language barrier and that he hit on her. He says they discussed the murder plot in a restaurant(!?) The sting operation was a complete disaster. They had her phone tapped, for heaven's sake! Couldn't they have done it in a smarter way?

So there's nothing there to make me think it's real. The police certainly haven't provided any evidence except for the landscaper's word. Maybe she complained about Kaine to the landscaper and he took it as an invitation, only to be shot down. Certainly, when he appeared at her house for the sting, she immediately called the police. Terri told Dr Phil the landscaper told the grand jury he had been threatened with deportation if he didn't do the sting operation. I can't say if that's true or not, but given how easy it is to get a grand jury to indict, I suspect there's truth there.

Yes, it's impossible to know what exactly transpired with the gardener and TH in this scenario. If the gardener was an undocumented citizen, perhaps that was leveraged to "encourage" him to assist. I'm sure the poor guy was a nervous wreck, and likely so given the outcome of the failed mission.

I've learned over the years and threads that what appears to be so, can often not be accurate. In this particular case, TH does not show well. Is she guilty of participating in KH's disappearance? I have no way of knowing. I think her friend D-d S could have provided additional information that could have cleared a lot up, but unfortunately she opted to take the fifth. Perhaps she was just following lawyer instructions, but when it comes to a missing child, that silence is so hard to understand. But maybe she had good reason to stay silent; I have no way of knowing.

I still think it would be worthy to revisit anyone who would have been "hiding in plain sight" at the school. Who worked there that now doesn't? Have they had trouble with the law since, or had notable difficulties? Same with those visiting the school that day.
I know that represents a huge study, but now we have the benefit of time to see where life has taken people, especially those who raise an eyebrow. TH's life after K's disappearance has been well documented in the news, but I'd like to see the study extend to others to insure thoroughness, and perhaps identify additional pieces of info that could help advance the case.

All just my amateur opinion and speculation