Kyron's General Discussion Thread for 2012-13

[matou]

I thought she was going to say "I didn't see any stains on the shirts" LOL. Yes, I don't remember hearing about her going to the dry cleaners before this. They are Magic Cleaners in Beaverton, OR and I think it's at one of the Fred Meyers she went to that day.

 

[ami]

"In sum, the court is allowing the respondent (Terri Horman) to conduct her own investigation into and discovery of the relevant facts and evidence (except for the minor students a this time) in order to prepare for the eventual trial"

Is it just me or does this judge sound pretty certain that there will be a trial eventually? If he'd said "prepare for a possible trial" or some such thing it would have been more iffy but "the eventual trial" sounds inevitable. Does he know something we don't or am I just overinterpreting?

Wow, yeah, I couldn't figure out at first if he meant divorce/custody trial, or criminal trial.

i'm on my ipad so it's hard for me to snip, but your part that quotes me as saying how can i give any credibility to a report that someone else was last seen with kyron just because TH's attorney said so, my response to that is, how could you not even consider it a possibility? her attorney wouldn't have said that unless they had witnesses that could back that up.

anyway, its clear that any theory or opinion stated in this forum that doesn't go with the majority opinion is immediately pounced on in what I feel is a condescending manner. i have followed this case from the beginning just like everyone else so it's not like i'm clueless on the facts. have a nice night everyone and i think we can all agree that Kyron needs to come home and whatever the truth is will eventually come to light.

Her attorney is paid to come up with alternate theories, just like Scott Peterson's attorneys went out and found people who "saw his wife" in the days after he killed her. Obviously no one saw his wife, as she was already dead, but that didn't stop a dozen or so people from thinking they did. And I would consider it a possibility that Kyron was walking around school long after Terri was shown to be elsewhere, if there were any credible evidence that it was so. If credible evidence arose tomorrow that pointed toward a neighborhood pedophile, or any other person, I would change my mind about Terri's guilt. I don't know her; I'm not invested in her guilt or innocence. But so far there simply has been no evidence that has pointed any other way.

Despite my snippiness, I too just want Kyron's kidnapper, murderer or fate to be known.

 

[MyBelle]

"In sum, the court is allowing the respondent (Terri Horman) to conduct her own investigation into and discovery of the relevant facts and evidence (except for the minor students a this time) in order to prepare for the eventual trial"

Is it just me or does this judge sound pretty certain that there will be a trial eventually? If he'd said "prepare for a possible trial" or some such thing it would have been more iffy but "the eventual trial" sounds inevitable. Does he know something we don't or am I just overinterpreting?

I think the Judge makes it abundantly clear that the trial he is referencing is the divorce/child custody proceeding that is his responsibility. He also makes it clear his decisions are focused on what is in the best interest of Kiara and points out that she has been separated from her mother for years on the basis of allegations, none of which have resulted in a criminal proceeding.

iow, it is time for Kaine to provide real proof that Terri was/is an unfit parent.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Works for me....Remember that each person deposed by TH will have their own atty who will be objecting to questions from Houze and company.

Now, when will TH be deposed?

Unless they believe they are being accused of a crime, there is no need for the person being deposed to hire an attorney. I was a witness to a car accident and I sure didn't need to hire an attorney.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Unfortunately, this is an article from June of last year. It was determined to not be involved, IIRC.




Thank you wasn't enough! "Allegedly" TH tried to hire a man to murder her husband. Well, LE had enough evidence of it to warn Kaine to get the heck out of dodge with their child. What if the MFH scheme had been successful? What if Baby K was with Kaine and was injured or even worse, killed?? Too much of this points to a very dangerous woman!

And the Judge has finally demanded proof that Terri is indeed a dangerous woman. Bravo to the Judge for recognizing that a child's best interests must prevail. Allegations are just that until they are proved. Kaine used these allegations to prevent a child from seeing her mother for years yet there still are no pending criminal charges against Terri.

JMO

 

[Karmady]

I haven't heard this before - KGW interviewed a woman who works at a drycleaners. She says Terri came in to the cleaners the day Kyron went missing to drop off two shirts, but didn't have any children with her. Unfortunately she doesn't say what time Terri visited the cleaners. Here is the video:

http://www.kgw.com/news/local/Judge-Terri-Hormans-lawyers-cannot-subpoena-lead-investgator-223927381.html

Thanks Chili. Iirc, this wouldn't help or hurt one way or the other since there would have been no time while she was out and about that day that the baby girl wouldn't have been with her according to her story. Best case, I thinks this proves is that she left the baby in the car, with or without someone else watching her. Worst case, it shows she lied about having the baby with her all day. Or maybe she dropped off the dry cleaning while the baby was in gym care? Is the 24 hour fitness in beaverton and anywhere near a magic cleaners? I don't remember where the gym was.

eta: wonder why the dry cleaner wasn't in her original timeline? Drycleaners sometimes have security cams and even if they don't, they're pretty scrupulous about recording your transaction time/pick up time.

 

[MyBelle]

Wow, yeah, I couldn't figure out at first if he meant divorce/custody trial, or criminal trial.




Her attorney is paid to come up with alternate theories, just like Scott Peterson's attorneys went out and found people who "saw his wife" in the days after he killed her. Obviously no one saw his wife, as she was already dead, but that didn't stop a dozen or so people from thinking they did. And I would consider it a possibility that Kyron was walking around school long after Terri was shown to be elsewhere, if there were any credible evidence that it was so. If credible evidence arose tomorrow that pointed toward a neighborhood pedophile, or any other person, I would change my mind about Terri's guilt. I don't know her; I'm not invested in her guilt or innocence. But so far there simply has been no evidence that has pointed any other way.

Despite my snippiness, I too just want Kyron's kidnapper, murderer or fate to be known.

The big difference between Terri and Scott Peterson is that he was charged with a crime when his attorney made those comments.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

Thanks Chili. Iirc, this wouldn't help or hurt one way or the other since there would have been no time while she was out and about that day that the baby girl wouldn't have been with her according to her story. Best case, I thinks this proves is that she left the baby in the car, with or without someone else watching her. Worst case, it shows she lied about having the baby with her all day. Or maybe she dropped off the dry cleaning while the baby was in gym care? Is the 24 hour fitness in beaverton and anywhere near a magic cleaners? I don't remember where the gym was.

eta: wonder why the dry cleaner wasn't in her original timeline? Drycleaners sometimes have security cams and even if they don't, they're pretty scrupulous about recording your transaction time/pick up time.

Actually, it helps Terri considerably. It is a giant leap to assume she had somehow harmed Kyron and dumped his body between errands.

JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Actually, it helps Terri considerably. It is a giant leap to assume she had somehow harmed Kyron and dumped his body between errands.

JMO

If she had help it seems quite possible. A pass off and then errands to serve as a red herring trail. Premeditation.
Opinion and speculation only.

 

[Karmady]

Actually, it helps Terri considerably. It is a giant leap to assume she had somehow harmed Kyron and dumped his body between errands.

JMO

Can you be more specific? According to Terri, she had the baby with her the entire day. Where was the baby when she went to the drycleaners? And if it helps, why isn't the drycleaners in the original "I have receipts" timeline?

Also, how often does a sahm drop off two shirts at the dry cleaners. Usually it's four or five, depending on whether there are casual Fridays. Not making a huge deal of that, but usually it's the weeks' shirts and June 4 is a Friday. jmo

 

[gliving]

I thought she was going to say "I didn't see any stains on the shirts" LOL. Yes, I don't remember hearing about her going to the dry cleaners before this. They are Magic Cleaners in Beaverton, OR and I think it's at one of the Fred Meyers she went to that day.

I assume shirts would refer to Kaine's shirts. Other wise it would be a ladies blouse. Why would there be stains on Kaine's shirts?

Can someone please pull up a MSM LE reference to Kaine's work schedule the morning Kyron disappeared? Thank you so much!

 

[Donjeta]

I think the Judge makes it abundantly clear that the trial he is referencing is the divorce/child custody proceeding that is his responsibility. He also makes it clear his decisions are focused on what is in the best interest of ***** and points out that she has been separated from her mother for years on the basis of allegations, none of which have resulted in a criminal proceeding.

iow, it is time for Kaine to provide real proof that Terri was/is an unfit parent.

JMO

OK, I didn't think that the judge would refer to the divorce process in that way because I thought these hearings were already part of that.

She has been separated from her mother on the basis of allegations AND because her mother let it be for three years because she would rather not answer any questions to refute the allegations. At this point it is questionable imo if it would be in a child's best interests to give custody to a perfect stranger. Her decisions worked in Kaine's favor imo.

Is it too late for you to edit out the minor's name from your post? I think WS rules say we shouldn't use minors names even if they've been in MSM.

 

[Donjeta]

Thanks Chili. Iirc, this wouldn't help or hurt one way or the other since there would have been no time while she was out and about that day that the baby girl wouldn't have been with her according to her story. Best case, I thinks this proves is that she left the baby in the car, with or without someone else watching her. Worst case, it shows she lied about having the baby with her all day. Or maybe she dropped off the dry cleaning while the baby was in gym care? Is the 24 hour fitness in beaverton and anywhere near a magic cleaners? I don't remember where the gym was.

eta: wonder why the dry cleaner wasn't in her original timeline? Drycleaners sometimes have security cams and even if they don't, they're pretty scrupulous about recording your transaction time/pick up time.

And she would most likely have had a receipt to remind herself.

 

[believe09]

i'm on my ipad so it's hard for me to snip, but your part that quotes me as saying how can i give any credibility to a report that someone else was last seen with kyron just because TH's attorney said so, my response to that is, how could you not even consider it a possibility? her attorney wouldn't have said that unless they had witnesses that could back that up.

I guess my response is that he is free to say anything he chooses since LE isnt going to comment regarding it. I think that this is just as real a possibility. He could say that TH has passed a private LDT-they arent admissable so who is going to be able to refute it?

His job is to get her off from any responsibility for this situation and to minimize the impact of her behavior in her divorce proceedings. I believe she has quite a bit of responsibility-many do not. Her road block is giving up her child to protect herself. I havent seen anything that even hints that she did this to protect anyone else. DS is also enmeshed in this situation imo-she wouldnt answer questions on the record unless it was People until the July 2013 Grand Jury appearance. At least, it appears to me this way.

I dont see anything condescending-I see healthy debate. And I take exception, fwiw, to being included in a statement like that because I may not agree with you. People are passionate about this case, but at the end of this day this darling boy was spirited away and possibly murdered and someone did it. As far as I know, the preponderance of everything we have seen on this case indicates that TH and possibly DS were the last to see him and they have chosen not to answer any questions about it. This is how I interpret what we know about Kyron's disappearance.

Their right not to incriminate themselves is a fundamental right, but WS is not a jury or a courtroom so people are free to argue vigorously about why they are asserting it. As long as it remains within TOS.

 

[MissJ]

JMO since I am not privy to the LE information that they are keeping to themselves but if they had a case against TMH for the alleged MFH plot she would have been charged by now. It remains to be seen if she is charged and convicted for Kyron's disappearance. If she is charged in either case I'll be surprised. I do believe someone else was seen with Kyron after TMH left.

 

[believe09]

JMO since I am not privy to the LE information that they are keeping to themselves but if they had a case against TMH for the alleged MFH plot she would have been charged by now. It remains to be seen if she is charged and convicted for Kyron's disappearance. If she is charged in either case I'll be surprised. I do believe someone else was seen with Kyron after TMH left.

Maybe-or maybe the Grand Jury proceeding includes this possible indictment as well. Just my thoughts.

 

[Mollyandme]

I guess my response is that he is free to say anything he chooses since LE isnt going to comment regarding it. I think that this is just as real a possibility. He could say that TH has passed a private LDT-they arent admissable so who is going to be able to refute it?

His job is to get her off from any responsibility for this situation and to minimize the impact of her behavior in her divorce proceedings. I believe she has quite a bit of responsibility-many do not. Her road block is giving up her child to protect herself. I havent seen anything that even hints that she did this to protect anyone else. DS is also enmeshed in this situation imo-she wouldnt answer questions on the record unless it was People until the July 2013 Grand Jury appearance. At least, it appears to me this way.

I dont see anything condescending-I see healthy debate. And I take exception, fwiw, to being included in a statement like that because I may not agree with you. People are passionate about this case, but at the end of this day this darling boy was spirited away and possibly murdered and someone did it. As far as I know, the preponderance of everything we have seen on this case indicates that TH and possibly DS were the last to see him and they have chosen not to answer any questions about it. This is how I interpret what we know about Kyron's disappearance.

Their right not to incriminate themselves is a fundamental right, but WS is not a jury or a courtroom so people are free to argue vigorously about why they are asserting it. As long as it remains within TOS.

FWIW, i wasn't talking about you, as you are the only poster here to tell me they actually respect my opinion even though they disagree, which made me feel better and made me feel I could continue posting here when you said, so thank you for that. Believe me, I throughly believed TMH was involved up to her ears in this from day one until the recent dropping of the RO and the civil case, which could have been stayed indefinitely but instead it was just dropped, this says a lot. and the fact that it's been 3 years and there still hasn't been an indictment from the grand jury on kyrons disapperance or the MFH plot.

secondly, the preponderance of everything that has been seen so far has been from the MSM which has villified TMH from day one. It will be interesting to see what discovery is released and if any of this discovery points to witnesses seeing someone else leave the school with Kyron as her attorney stated in court. If this is in fact the case, this should be made public for safety reasons as well since so far they haven't been able to identify this person or connect them to TMH.

also, TMH has a very well regarded defense attorney. we have all seen what happens when suspects or persons of interest talk and talk and talk. i see nothing wrong with TMH asserting her constitutional rights. I am as disturbed as everyone that it's taken her three years to petition for custody but I also think she was advised by her attorneys that it would be better to wait until MCSO and the DA are backed into a corner where they have to show that they really have nothing on TMH. I am outraged as well that it has taken her so long but we don't know everything that is going on beyond the scenes. She immediately hired her attorney once the MFH plot and the RO happened, which the MFH was the pressing criminal matter at that time. She didn't hire her family law attorney until sometime after that.

i also wonder whatever happened with the alleged MFH plot. If there was actual evidence that would be enough to charge her with this, or indict her, why hasn't that happened and why would the judge drop the RO if there was still a viable case against her for the MFH plot? It just doesn't add up to me.

also the judge did rule that children and teachers at the school could be deposed as to what they saw the day Kyron went missing so if the statement made by TMH's attorney that she wasn't the last person seen with Kyron at the school is true that might come to light soon.

in regards to LE lying, Kantor actually stated in open court "police do that all the time." we all know they do this for investigative purposes but how far has it gone in this case and what did they lie about? it could be anything from polygraph tests to the circumstances around the MFH plot which was announced to the media along with the RO, which is what started the media storm against TMH.

 

[Mollyandme]

JMO since I am not privy to the LE information that they are keeping to themselves but if they had a case against TMH for the alleged MFH plot she would have been charged by now. It remains to be seen if she is charged and convicted for Kyron's disappearance. If she is charged in either case I'll be surprised. I do believe someone else was seen with Kyron after TMH left.

i agree. i believe this will come out in court once the deposition of teachers and students are taken

 

[human]

I do not understand this grand jury. It has been going on for a couple of years.

Surely it is not the same people, is it?

How do they join the information together?

Where I live, all the info is presented at once. Maybe it takes awhile, but it might be a couple of weeks with the same people.

I don't understand that system in Oregon

 

[human]

The MFH plot is a he said, she said.

That is why LE tried the sting.

I had a former neighbor who tried MFH.

He asked the hit man. Hit man went to LE.

LE wired the hit man and that is how the MFH was authenticated.

Until there is verification, anyone could make up any story about someone. LE needs proof.

So they tried to do it in a stupid way, I feel. The failed sting.

I just think of all of the silly stories that were told such as Dede staying with TMH and sleeping with a fire extinguisher.

Dede had a fine condo where they could have stayed instead of the scary country.

To me if you were scared of crazies, why not go to a condo where you are surrounded by people and not out in the woods?

Methinks someone did not want to give up possession of the house.