Lance Armstrong Doping Scandal

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My ex-husband was never an elite cyclist but he did used to race against Lance many years ago. (He also knew Floyd Landis and some of the others). He has always said that Lance is a jerk. He treated other cyclists terribly and was just downright rude and arrogant. He doesn't have a single positive thing to say about Lance. Don't let the PR machie fool you.
I'm glad he beat cancer, no one deserves that.
 
Well, I'm very sad to hear that he is not a good person. He has been a role model for children and cancer surviors for so long.......very sad. Justice finds us no matter what or who we are....truth always comes out in the end.

Thanks for all the info...
 
RN2MOM, I did read that Lance had a rough childhood. His real father abandoned the family when he was two. His mom struggled to make ends meet. She remarried eventually, but the husband was abusive, and didn't get along with Lance. Today, Lance says he never wants to see his real father again, and refers to him as the "DNA donor."
 
Here is my difficulty with this whole thing.

In this country, we don't jail until someone has been found guilty according to the laws and rules set up to judge that person. The same thing with governing bodies of all kinds. Don't we always look cockeyed at someone who is cutting a deal with the prosecution so they can get less time/less punishment by testifying against someone else? I always wonder if that's been made up, or if it's true. To me, that's tainted evidence, you know?

If someone lost their job because of something a co-worker, who might be trying to save their own job, says...well, I have an issue with that. That's tainted evidence, too.

If Armstrong has been doping, he hasn't been caught. If he's passed all the tests many times over the years, then there is no evidence that can be brought against him except others who have been caught, who might be looking to save their own skin/reputation, or have other motives. To me, that's tainted evidence at best.

It bothers me that even though someone has passed all the tests, and there is no pure/unmotivated evidence against him, that he will be stripped of his accomplishments.

Do I think he's doped? I have no idea. I also don't care too much about cycling...but I do care about fairness. If he doped, he has also passed all the tests. Either there needs to be better tests, or this witchhunt needs to stop.

To me, this is not fair. He played by the rules everyone else did, and if he did it better than everyone else did (in re: doping), then it's not his issue, it's the regulating body's issue.

Best-
Herding Cats
 
Lance's ex-teammate Tyler Hamilton will be releasing his book, The Secret Race, in a few days.

And supposedly the USADA will be releasing some of its evidence in the future. I'm interested if anything will come out about corroborating witness George Hincapie. He was Lance's right-hand man and 'best-bro' through all seven Tours wins. He is considered a credible and reluctant witness.
This article has more on Hamilton's book and the upcoming USADA report. They now have some positive retests of Armstrong's old blood samples. Interesting to read how Armstrong was able to stay ahead of the game. He simply had the best doctor.
Armstrong’s samples were tested when he won the Tours, but those examinations were of limited effectiveness for a number of reasons. Firstly, no EPO test existed prior to the 2000 Olympics, and could be beaten anyway after that point through timed microdosing [injecting tiny amounts of the drug directly into a vein] or the use of a protease masking agent.

Secondly, to this day there is no test for autologous blood transfusions; injections of an athlete’s own stored blood. Thirdly, there is often a time lag between the new introduction of a new doping agent and its detection. According to Armstrong’s former team-mate Tyler Hamilton, the Texan’s use of Michele Ferrari as his doctor meant that he had the very latest and least detectable products.

He said that he was always “two years ahead of what everybody else was doing,” as a result.

“If you were careful and paid attention,” writes Hamilton, “you could dope and be 99 percent certain that you would not get caught. Ferrari received a lifetime ban from USADA this summer after he did not contest charges against him. Over the past two decades, the Italian has built up a reputation as the most advanced doctor in this area of the sport. The US Postal Service team was previously claimed to have paid him a huge retainer to ensure he didn’t work with other competitors, thus handing them an advantage in this area,

The implication is that it was far from a level playing field, even if other teams were also doping.
http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/1...rong-retests-also-that-ex-wife-testified.aspx
 
Here is my difficulty with this whole thing.

It bothers me that even though someone has passed all the tests, and there is no pure/unmotivated evidence against him, that he will be stripped of his accomplishments.

Do I think he's doped? I have no idea. I also don't care too much about cycling...but I do care about fairness. If he doped, he has also passed all the tests. Either there needs to be better tests, or this witchhunt needs to stop.

If you do care about fairness, then you will want his trophies stripped. In every race he and his team rode in, there were people racing who did NOT dope, who trained no less hard and pushed the body God gave them to do the best it could in every race.

Imagine being one of those guys at the starting line--knowing you'll lose because there are others beating the system.

Cycling is a sport one chooses to go into. The USADA is regulating the drug/performance enhancement testing of the sport. There is no court of law, no trials, but the rules are clearly spelled out.

And really, how many chances did he have to say to himself "Lance, old boy, let's stop doing this--I think they're on to me." Hundreds. Every time he took a test, he could have decided to stop it after that test.

But--as a testament to how utterly arrogant and above-all Lance Armstrong regarded himself, he continued on with what he was doing.
 
Here is my difficulty with this whole thing.

In this country, we don't jail until someone has been found guilty according to the laws and rules set up to judge that person. The same thing with governing bodies of all kinds. Don't we always look cockeyed at someone who is cutting a deal with the prosecution so they can get less time/less punishment by testifying against someone else? I always wonder if that's been made up, or if it's true. To me, that's tainted evidence, you know?

If someone lost their job because of something a co-worker, who might be trying to save their own job, says...well, I have an issue with that. That's tainted evidence, too.

If Armstrong has been doping, he hasn't been caught. If he's passed all the tests many times over the years, then there is no evidence that can be brought against him except others who have been caught, who might be looking to save their own skin/reputation, or have other motives. To me, that's tainted evidence at best.

It bothers me that even though someone has passed all the tests, and there is no pure/unmotivated evidence against him, that he will be stripped of his accomplishments.

Do I think he's doped? I have no idea. I also don't care too much about cycling...but I do care about fairness. If he doped, he has also passed all the tests. Either there needs to be better tests, or this witchhunt needs to stop.

To me, this is not fair. He played by the rules everyone else did, and if he did it better than everyone else did (in re: doping), then it's not his issue, it's the regulating body's issue.

Best-
Herding Cats
Then you are rewarding his finding a way to beat the tests. Apparently he didn't play by the same rules as everyone else. He admitted to more than one person that he was doping. Why brag and lie if that wasn't true??? I thought Marion Jones was pretty darn incredible until I learned that it was because of the drugs that she was able to accomplish so much! Look how much more rewarding it is for the athletes like Usian Bolt, Alison Felix, and others whom I can't think of their names that accomplish their feats through strength and training alone- fairly, without the use of drugs!!!
His doping also diminishes his victory as a cancer survivor in my eyes, because it if weren't for the steroid use, he may never have gotten the cancer. Same as former football player Lyle Alzedo who used steroids, then died of cancer!
 
Then you are rewarding his finding a way to beat the tests. Apparently he didn't play by the same rules as everyone else. He admitted to more than one person that he was doping. Why brag and lie if that wasn't true??? I thought Marion Jones was pretty darn incredible until I learned that it was because of the drugs that she was able to accomplish so much! Look how much more rewarding it is for the athletes like Usian Bolt, Alison Felix, and others whom I can't think of their names that accomplish their feats through strength and training alone- fairly, without the use of drugs!!!
His doping also diminishes his victory as a cancer survivor in my eyes, because it if weren't for the steroid use, he may never have gotten the cancer. Same as former football player Lyle Alzedo who used steroids, then died of cancer!
Fingers crossed that Usain Bolt is not doping. He surely is a great talent that was already good since he was young but his improvement from 10 seconds to 9.69 in just a year was a bit too amazing. Maybe 20 years from now, when everybody is clean we will realize it is humanly impossible to run the 100m in 9.5 without doping. A clean 9.8s maybe? Or maybe Bolt really is a superhuman. I really would like to think so but ...
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/08/12/bernstein-usain-bolt-is-probably-doping-and-you-know-it/

I like to think people like Bolt and Armstrong are the best even when they are doping because everybody is doping, but I am probably just fooling myself. Armstrong won not only because he had talent, but also because he had the best doctor, the best doping, a body that responded well to doping. So would he be the best if everybody was clean? We will never know.

They say the dirtiest race in history was the 1988 Olympic 100m final. Ben Johnson won but they hanged him for doping use. Later we found out that pretty much the whole field was involved in doping. So who was the fastest? It could have been Calvin Smith. First one to break the 10 second barrier. Or maybe I should just say it was Ben Johnson after all and accept that everybody dopes. I don't know anymore :(
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,6903,1270863,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2003/apr/24/athletics.duncanmackay
 
No, Linus, I can't agree.

Let me put it like this.

I'm a nurse. Suppose some of my colleagues decided to accuse me of using meds illegally to get high. I submit and pass all the tests administration asks me to. And yet they still fire me because my colleague swears that I was using drugs. My performance on the job is stellar, but I'm a jerk, so it's an easy target. And then it comes to light that the administration who is making me take all these tests also accused my colleague, and my colleague, to make things easier on herself, implicates me.

I spend years fighting the charges, showing test results, spending uncountable hours and millions of dollars to clear my name. Even with proof (the test results), administration still thinks I'm doing drugs.

The moment I decide that irrespective of proof, I will always be thought of as guilty, and decide to spend my time and money elsewhere, administration says "see? We KNEW you were. Only guilty folk walk away!" My colleague gets a nice promotion, or at least doesn't get fired.

I'm the one who loses no matter what.

That's kind of how I see it. We are a country and society that doesn't punish without proof. When that happens, we rage against the decision, saying it's not fair. We have things like The Innocence Project, and the ACLU, and other organizations, which scream out "no proof, no punishment". We get mad here at WS when we know someone did it, but we also look at the law and at fairness, and say "well, the prosecution screwed up" (I am thinking of OJ Simpson here) or "that jury is beyond belief" (the Anthony fiasco).

We here at WS don't even investigate people who are not named suspects or POI based on someone's word.

That's fair. That's the system we work with. That's the basis of our legal judicial system. I'm the first to scream "Of course OJ/Casey did it!", but I'm also the first to say "the system is broken, let's fix it" or "well, there was tainted/questionable evidence" or whatever.

Fair is fair. If they can't get the proof, leave Lance (and the rest) alone, and develop a test that DOES show the evidence. Then use it and prove something. Othewise, let it go. It's similar to that little chinese girl who won big at the Olympics, and she was tested, came up negative, and no one's screaming for her medal. Or that girl who had her whole life and sexuality and gender questioned at another Olympics...

And in the end, it's simply a sport, right? In OJ and Anthony, it's lives I'm talking about...but fair is fair.

I think Armstrong is an easy target...he's not a nice person, apparently, and some people will take that to mean he's a doper, even without evidence and with clean tests. To me, this is a bullying thing, and a way to "get back" (although for what, I don't know) at him for something.

And I don't always expect people to tell the truth, or, if they are, to have that truth accurately reported. When it comes down to brass tacks, Armstrong passed the tests. If the tests are inadequate, who's fault is that? Not Armstrong's...not any cyclist's. It's the administration's fault.

And that goes across the board for everything. Fair is fair. Armstrong played by the rules set out by that administration - "pass these tests, you're good to go". He did.

And I say all this with the understanding that there are ways to fake the tests. I don't know if he did or did not. I don't know if he doped, or did not. What I do know is that irrespective of that, he took and passed all the tests they asked for.

It is on that basis that I say the issue is not Armstrong's, but the administration. Time to revamp the testing system...and not be a bully because you can't catch someone you think is doing something they may not be.

As always, just my opinion...and I'd ask that those folks who take serious umbrage at my posts realize that it *is* just an opinion, and nothing to get nasty about...and to take it a tad easier on me, please.

Thanks!

Best-
Herding Cats
 
I think doping was a common thing in cycling. Seems to me the one who gets the title in place of Lance was probably a doper too. jmo
 
I was in Barnes & Noble and browsed a copy of The Secret Race. Well, this book is hard to put down! I bought it and read it in two days. Tyler Hamilton goes into great detail about pro cycling's doping and corruption. The book includes extensive footnotes by co-author Dan Coyle. Of course, Armstrong's army will claim The Secret Race is a novel, pure fiction (at least the parts about Armstrong!). But, I think Lance is starting to look ridiculous with his doping denials, especially since many of his teammates have confessed. I do sympathize with Armstrong a bit. It's much harder for him to confess because he is Lance the Legend. Then again, the longer these denials continue, the more he appears to be Lance the Farce, IMO.
 
To add to the story:

http://sensenbrenner.house.gov/news/documentprint.aspx?DocumentID=303025

Within the sensenbrenner letter there is a link to a response from USADA which is all gobbledygoob, IMO.

I am neither a Lance Armstrong fan, nor a Sensenbrenner fan, but it does appear that USADA (using 9 Million dollars of taxpayer funding) is running a witch hunting club.

I think that the USADA, needs to be investigated by the DOJ. IMO.

BBM
So, one of the things I wondered about has now been found. The money for the witchhunt is coming from the taxpayers, and I am just so tired of this bullpuckey.
 
I know Travis Tygart, the guy who prosecuted Lance, and I can guarantee that he is a straight shooter and believes to his very core in clean sport free from corruption. Two years ago he was given a detailed confession about what went on in Lance's former team (US Postal, yes, sponsored by the Post Office) and he did what any prosecutor would do...he started an investigation. There was also a federal government investigation into possible racketeering opened up at the time too Eventually more than 10 cyclists and multiple team staff came forward and gave Travis and USADA detailed information. They were all prepared to testify against Lance at an arbitration hearing. Travis had no choice but to prosecute this, it's his job and there was overwhelming evidence against Lance.

This is not just about Lance using performance enhancing drugs to win bike races. It's about:

- Lance and team management pressuring other team members into using drugs. This happened many, many times over the years and it's a horrible thing to do.

- Lance and team management acquiring drugs and selling them to team members...trafficking drugs. This included extremely unsafe experimental drugs like Hemassist that were never even approved for human use.

- Lance paid large amounts of money (bribes) to the governing body of the sport, the UCI, to have them look the other way and cover up his doping. The real injustice here is that the UCI management has not been held accountable. The top of the sport is extremely corrupt and Lance was able to use his fame and large amounts of cash to basically join in cahoots with the UCI Presidents.

As for Lance and cancer. I think the inspiration he has provided is terrific. But sadly, his accomplishments came while using some of the same dangerous drugs that doctors only prescribe to cancer patients with serious anemia. Many here have probably had loved ones, or even themselves, take erythropoietin and know how that drug should only be taken with great care.

So Lance did all he could...he gave in to USADA and is doing his best to win the PR war. But don't be fooled into thinking he's a victim of the system...far from it. When you play the system like he did there's going to be some pushback from the true watchdogs.

Show us your links for the statements you claim as fact.
 
http://openchannel.nbcnews.com/_new...g-proof-of-cheating-by-cyclist-armstrong?lite

Doping agency claims 'overwhelming' proof of cheating by cyclist Armstrong

The evidence of the US Postal Service Pro Cycling Team-run scheme is overwhelming and is in excess of 1000 pages, and includes sworn testimony from 26 people, including 15 riders with knowledge of the US Postal Service Team (USPS Team) and its participants’ doping activities.

I have personally talked with and heard these athletes’ stories and firmly believe that, collectively, these athletes, if forgiven and embraced, have a chance to leave a legacy far greater for the good of the sport than anything they ever did on a bike.

Lance Armstrong was given the same opportunity to come forward and be part of the solution. He rejected it.
 
I am glad that is over. I wonder if LA will ever confess? Probably not. And for the last few remaining LA supporters desperately clinging onto the negative doping tests. Hincapie has now come out and admitted to doping use. He never had a positive test either.
"Early in my professional career, it became clear to me that, given the widespread use of performance enhancing drugs by cyclists at the top of the profession, it was not possible to compete at the highest level without them. I deeply regret that choice and sincerely apologize to my family, teammates and fans."
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/535106/hincapie-admits-to-doping-during-career.html
 
If you do care about fairness, then you will want his trophies stripped. In every race he and his team rode in, there were people racing who did NOT dope, who trained no less hard and pushed the body God gave them to do the best it could in every race.

Imagine being one of those guys at the starting line--knowing you'll lose because there are others beating the system.

Cycling is a sport one chooses to go into. The USADA is regulating the drug/performance enhancement testing of the sport. There is no court of law, no trials, but the rules are clearly spelled out.

And really, how many chances did he have to say to himself "Lance, old boy, let's stop doing this--I think they're on to me." Hundreds. Every time he took a test, he could have decided to stop it after that test.

But--as a testament to how utterly arrogant and above-all Lance Armstrong regarded himself, he continued on with what he was doing.

If you are so sure Lance Armstrong did dope, how can you be so sure the others didn't?
 

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