Laura Babcock Murder Trial - *GUILTY*

[JuneBug67]

DM's digital evidence left for LE, in both the TB and LB cases, were ridiculously ignorant to LE capabilities. I expect the evidence pattern to be similiar in the WM case, since the LB and TB murders were bookends on either side of the WM murder. His phone and computers were the only truthful witnesses to come out of Maplegate, and they sure did speak. Anticipate web search history / pics on how to kill someone and make it look like a suicide, searches on where is the human skull the thinnest, etc. Somewhat circumstantial evidence, but coupled with the financial motive... I can see a 3rd M1 conviction.

I remember in the letters, as the defence case in DM’s head kept evolving in his head with each new piece of discovery, that at one point he said the computer evidence was still outstanding but that that wasn’t worried because there was nothing to find, or words to that effect. He obviously completely blanked on the concept of iTunes backups, or simply didn’t know they were happening. LOL. Fly on the wall when he found that out, as they say...

So you’re right, that kind of stuff may absolutely be present. I’m curious about the absence of Smich in these charges. This is one where you would think he mght have been recruited to provide Millard a perfect alibi, but maybe if Millard didn’t need grunt work or another pair of hands pointing a gun, he didn’t need Smich. It’s just a bit weird, given that he was living in the basement at the time. Could be a suspicion but not enough evidence thing too, maybe. Or explicitly having Smich gone to support suicide staging. I am curious about whether he will be in the evidence at all in any capacity. Other end of a text message, for example, or in the movie version, as a witness.

Anyway, if guilt can be assumed, Millard is once again pretty disgusting. Pretty hard to be this cruel and amoral in such fresh ways with each killing. A troubled girl who loves and trusts you, an utterly innocent complete stranger - and your own father. None of it ever stops feeling shocking.

 

[JuneBug67]

IIRC didn't MS testify that's when DM shot TB? When they pulled over?

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Yes, and it is possible. One argument against it is that Tim may have been strongly reluctant to drive that far, but I can in theory see DM manipulating Tim with his fake normality and easy going charm, feigning strong interest in the purchase but just wanting to take a good run in the truck. All the while his options clicking away in his head. Another argument against is that the timing of the switch with the Yukon just makes better sense with other theories.

In favour I suppose we always have the fact that DM is a lunatic and anything is possible. And that there is no evidence that they had control of Tim’s phone at any point before that.

Choosing that secluded (yet recorded, dummies) spot to regroup makes equal sense under any scenario, so I don’t think there’s any useful information in their delay there.

Either way, they are just generally horrifying. Ugh.

 

[RezButt]

Only 3 people know what happened to TB. One of them is dead and the other 2 are in jail.

 

[deugirtni]

I remember in the letters, as the defence case in DM’s head kept evolving in his head with each new piece of discovery, that at one point he said the computer evidence was still outstanding but that that wasn’t worried because there was nothing to find, or words to that effect. He obviously completely blanked on the concept of iTunes backups, or simply didn’t know they were happening. LOL. Fly on the wall when he found that out, as they say...

So you’re right, that kind of stuff may absolutely be present. I’m curious about the absence of Smich in these charges. This is one where you would think he mght have been recruited to provide Millard a perfect alibi, but maybe if Millard didn’t need grunt work or another pair of hands pointing a gun, he didn’t need Smich. It’s just a bit weird, given that he was living in the basement at the time. Could be a suspicion but not enough evidence thing too, maybe. Or explicitly having Smich gone to support suicide staging. I am curious about whether he will be in the evidence at all in any capacity. Other end of a text message, for example, or in the movie version, as a witness.

Anyway, if guilt can be assumed, Millard is once again pretty disgusting. Pretty hard to be this cruel and amoral in such fresh ways with each killing. A troubled girl who loves and trusts you, an utterly innocent complete stranger - and your own father. None of it ever stops feeling shocking.

I wonder if, at trial, DM will provide a different theory, and blame MS for killing his dad?

 

[Waterbottle]

@deugirtni I believe DM will just continue to say that his dad killed himself and speak about the failing airplane business as the reason. Probably include his dad's divorce from his mother as another reason. I doubt he'll pin it on someone, cause if he does, wouldn't he admit to having known about a murder but not saying anything? He'll make up stories and lies about how his dad had "suicidal tendencies" and "vocally expressed them" - but only to DM, of course.

 

[jash]

They've charged DM with first-degree murder of WM, so they must have some evidence of planning. I would not be surprised at all if DM wrote a suicide note to support the scene he set.

Now that we know WM was found in bed, I'm hopeful that he was asleep/unconscious and did not know this was coming.

 

[gremlingrrl]

I wonder if WM was one of the "people who knew too much already" (per the recovered DM & MS text messages), and if that played a part in this.

 

[RezButt]

I wonder if WM was one of the "people who knew too much already" (per the recovered DM & MS text messages), and if that played a part in this.

Methinks the only thing WM ‘knew’ was gonna bleed the family coffers dry because he had never worked a day in his life.

Probably the same feelings CM had for WM many moons ago.

 

[Inspector_North]

They've charged DM with first-degree murder of WM, so they must have some evidence of planning. I would not be surprised at all if DM wrote a suicide note to support the scene he set.

Now that we know WM was found in bed, I'm hopeful that he was asleep/unconscious and did not know this was coming.

A couple of the things I know, and a couple of my assumptions in relation to the upcoming WM trial.

1) fact: We know that MWJ sold DM the gun used to kill his dad.
2) fact: Dellen called 911
3) fact: WM was shot in bed
4) fact: WM was shot in the left eye
5) fact: Rabbit and Jenn were at the home when LE arrived
6) fact: WM had a firearm permit. IIRC, Dellen used it in the LB trial
7) assumption: LE were the first to respond to 911 call
8) assumption: Dellen must have called his mom and she was close by to beat LE to the scene.
9) assumption: Mother was with Jenn. Can't see him shooting his dad with his ex. fiance with him.
10) assumption: There was no obvious signs of foul play. Toronto LE quickly called it a suicide.
11) assumption: There were no obvious results of the autopsy that suggested it was not suicide.
12) fact: WM was cremated within a week of passing away
13) fact: LE only charged him after "the Noudga letters" were discovered.
14) fact: This is the only murder charge for DM that did not go direct to trial
15) fact: DM seemed to keep the cause of death nebulous by telling folks it was due to bleeding of the brain, or something like that.

also

"What I was told is that Dell's father was going to cut him off, because Dell was spending too much money and was not taking responsibility for the business and his father was not going to let him ruin the business that him and his father, Dell's grandfather, had started," Art Jennings, a MillardAir employee, told the fifth estate."

The above would be hearsay, but do LE have direct evidence of this relationship?

If anyone has something to add, or a correction, please do. A list may help us sort out fact, assumptions and rumours.

PS. Santa left me a copy of Ann's book in my stocking. Perfect timing as the outside temp drops for a few days. :goldstar:

MOO

 

[JuneBug67]

A couple of the things I know, and a couple of my assumptions in relation to the upcoming WM trial.

1) fact: We know that MWJ sold DM the gun used to kill his dad.
2) fact: Dellen called 911
3) fact: WM was shot in bed
4) fact: WM was shot in the left eye
5) fact: Rabbit and Jenn were at the home when LE arrived
6) fact: WM had a firearm permit. IIRC, Dellen used it in the LB trial
7) assumption: LE were the first to respond to 911 call
8) assumption: Dellen must have called his mom and she was close by to beat LE to the scene.
9) assumption: Mother was with Jenn. Can't see him shooting his dad with his ex. fiance with him.
10) assumption: There was no obvious signs of foul play. Toronto LE quickly called it a suicide.
11) assumption: There were no obvious results of the autopsy that suggested it was not suicide.
12) fact: WM was cremated within a week of passing away
13) fact: LE only charged him after "the Noudga letters" were discovered.
14) fact: This is the only murder charge for DM that did not go direct to trial
15) fact: DM seemed to keep the cause of death nebulous by telling folks it was due to bleeding of the brain, or something like that.

also

"What I was told is that Dell's father was going to cut him off, because Dell was spending too much money and was not taking responsibility for the business and his father was not going to let him ruin the business that him and his father, Dell's grandfather, had started," Art Jennings, a MillardAir employee, told the fifth estate."

The above would be hearsay, but do LE have direct evidence of this relationship?

If anyone has something to add, or a correction, please do. A list may help us sort out fact, assumptions and rumours.

PS. Santa left me a copy of Ann's book in my stocking. Perfect timing as the outside temp drops for a few days. :goldstar:

MOO

Before I reply, a quick note to all who celebrated to say I hope you enjoyed your Christmas, and that special time with friends and family continues today. I know that those of us in active discussion on here are particularly cognizant that families like the Babcocks and Bosmas will carry their losses particularly sharply at these times of year. I am sure each of us thought of them, wished them comfort, and counted our many blessings.

Now, by number!

8/9: I think there may be a good possibility that DM was out with one or both of them and came home with same to “discover” the scene.

13: The search of Noudga’s house happened later on the same day that all the 2014 charges were laid. So they would not have had the letters before the charge.

14: I think the justification for the direct-to-trial in the first two cases had a lot to do with the challenges of trying co-accused in interrelated cases. That of course doesn’t apply in the WM case.

 

[Inspector_North]

Before I reply, a quick note to all who celebrated to say I hope you enjoyed your Christmas, and that special time with friends and family continues today. I know that those of us in active discussion on here are particularly cognizant that families like the Babcocks and Bosmas will carry their losses particularly sharply at these times of year. I am sure each of us thought of them, wished them comfort, and counted our many blessings.

Now, by number!

8/9: I think there may be a good possibility that DM was out with one or both of them and came home with same to “discover” the scene.

13: The search of Noudga’s house happened later on the same day that all the 2014 charges were laid. So they would not have had the letters before the charge.

14: I think the justification for the direct-to-trial in the first two cases had a lot to do with the challenges of trying co-accused in interrelated cases. That of course doesn’t apply in the WM case.

8/9. Your scenario is much more logical to explain the timeline. It will be interesting if LE noted he had been dead for some time, if DM was out with mom and Jenn.

13. Again, you're correct. http://toronto.citynews.ca/2014/04/10/timeline-murders-linked-to-dellen-millard/

May 21, 2013: Police reopen their investigations into Babcock’s disappearance and Wayne Millard’s death.
May 23, 2013: Police charge Mark Smich, 25, with first-degree murder in Bosma’s death.
April 9, 2014: Millard, 28, and Smich, 26, are charged with first-degree murder in Babcock’s death. Millard is also charged with first-degree murder in his father’s death.
April 10, 2014: Christina Noudga, 21, of Toronto is charged with accessory after the fact to murder in connection with Bosma’s death.

So I wonder if "text messages" retrieved from phones and computers will have any evidence. It's not like anyone else is charged, other than he may have said something to MS, or MWJ. Although ISHO was using a defense that he did not know what DM would do with the guns he sold him.

14. I don't think that is the intended purpose, or justification for a direct to trial. But I can always stand corrected.


Thanks,

 

[NoodlesMcgee]

8/9. Your scenario is much more logical to explain the timeline. It will be interesting if LE noted he had been dead for some time, if DM was out with mom and Jenn.

13. Again, you're correct. http://toronto.citynews.ca/2014/04/10/timeline-murders-linked-to-dellen-millard/

So I wonder if "text messages" retrieved from phones and computers will have any evidence. It's not like anyone else is charged, other than he may have said something to MS, or MWJ. Although ISHO was using a defense that he did not know what DM would do with the guns he sold him.

14. I don't think that is the intended purpose, or justification for a direct to trial. But I can always stand corrected.


Thanks,

Re direct to trial, this canlii document gives the main reasons under paragraph 38
https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2009/2009scc14/2009scc14.html

 

[JuneBug67]

14. I don't think that is the intended purpose, or justification for a direct to trial. But I can always stand corrected.

RSBM

Not directly, but I think indirectly as the result of some of the challenges of the complexity and realities of two distinct but interrelated cases. From the link provided in the last post for example, I can see some of these factors being cited in a justification:

delays in the trial could deprive the accused of the right to be tried within a reasonable time;

Dungey on behalf of Smich did in fact try the unreasonable delay tactic, so this likely was a potential concern.

the physical or psychological health of witnesses, their age, their safety or that of their relatives, and the difficulties involved in having witnesses testify more than once;

Off the top of my head we had at least 4 witnesses testify at both trials, with Noudga also originally scheduled, so prelims could have potentially doubled the necessary appearances for any of them.

preservation of the integrity of the Crown’s evidence by, for example, protecting informants and ongoing police investigations;

The two cases were in fact being investigted simultaneously and evidence overlapped.

a preliminary inquiry would be unreasonably costly, complex or long, or would be inappropriate because of the nature of the issues or the evidence;

I can see the nature of evidence that overlaps both two trials and two accused being seen as sufficiently complicating.

It’s unfortunate we will likely never know what the justifications were as no reasons need to be publicly given. Defence attorneys have raised concerns before that direct indictments are used disproportionately in high profile cases, and the cases certainly qualify as that as well. All we can do is guess at the reasoning, but overall direct indictments are meant to protect the course of justice, one way or another.

 

[Inspector_North]

Re direct to trial, this canlii document gives the main reasons under paragraph 38
https://www.canlii.org/en/ca/scc/doc/2009/2009scc14/2009scc14.html

There seems to be several possible reasons for a direct to trial. Guess it's best to take the person approving it for the underlying reason if not explicitly stated. Looking at the document, it may be for several of the reasons listed. MOO

http://www.chch.com/millard-smitch-will-go-straight-trial/

BBM

"Attorney General Madeleine Meilleur approved the decision to skip a preliminary hearing, suggesting the evidence will support the decision.

AG Meilleur: “When this procedure is supported, it’s because there is good evidence that the person that is accused will be convicted.”

Which is why I "assumed" there was less "good" evidence in the upcoming WM trial.

 

[paris_paris]

Before I reply, a quick note to all who celebrated to say I hope you enjoyed your Christmas, and that special time with friends and family continues today. I know that those of us in active discussion on here are particularly cognizant that families like the Babcocks and Bosmas will carry their losses particularly sharply at these times of year. I am sure each of us thought of them, wished them comfort, and counted our many blessings.

Now, by number!

8/9: I think there may be a good possibility that DM was out with one or both of them and came home with same to “discover” the scene.

13: The search of Noudga’s house happened later on the same day that all the 2014 charges were laid. So they would not have had the letters before the charge.

14: I think the justification for the direct-to-trial in the first two cases had a lot to do with the challenges of trying co-accused in interrelated cases. That of course doesn’t apply in the WM case.

I don't think he would have been out with both of them. It doesn't make sense he would return to his father's home with his mother. I think he shot his Dad, went out with Jen, returned with Jen, then called his Mom.

 

[Boudica]

I don't think he would have been out with both of them. It doesn't make sense he would return to his father's home with his mother. I think he shot his Dad, went out with Jen, returned with Jen, then called his Mom.

I think I read that DM was out with Jenn, her mother and with his mother. It wasn't just his father's home, it was his home too.

 

[redwing7225]

I don't think he would have been out with both of them. It doesn't make sense he would return to his father's home with his mother. I think he shot his Dad, went out with Jen, returned with Jen, then called his Mom.

I'm still trying to figure out why someone as beautiful and talented as JS would be with DM...or was she that blind and didn't know DM was with CN and LB at same time as her.

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[jash]

I'm still trying to figure out why someone as beautiful and talented as JS would be with DM...or was she that blind and didn't know DM was with CN and LB at same time as her.

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Speculation only, but I think she at least knew after their engagement was called off. It appears though that she and DM remained "friendly" afterwards right up until his arrest (she was living in his condo and driving a car in his name).

I think everyone in his circle got something out of their association with him (whether material or psychological) and they were willing to overlook his transgressions to keep the good times rolling.

 

[ABro]

I'm still trying to figure out why someone as beautiful and talented as JS would be with DM...or was she that blind and didn't know DM was with CN and LB at same time as her.

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On what basis do you conclude she's talented?

 

[iPhoneGuy]

On what basis do you conclude she's talented?

I think the assumption is based on her ballerina career

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