Lloyd Welch is Person of Interest

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Is there any hard evidence to name him person of interest?

I don't think this was revealed at the press conference. There is some reason they think it is him though and not someone else. Obviously they don't want to harm the investigation by revealing everything just now.
 
I wonder where he stayed when in Maryland at a girlfriend’s place family member’s place, a friend’s, rented apartment, mobile home park or even a boarding house?

Do we know why he was in the plaza that day and who he was with and if he spoke to anyone? Was there a ride he was operating at the plaza? If so I wondered what time did the plaza close that day would the ride have been closing when the girls were leaving?

If he has a type of girl he abuses and if the Lyon sisters fit his type?

I wonder how the crimes he has been convicted of occurred and how the victims escaped from him?

I wondered if he was a member of a pedophile ring & if so did someone he knew talk?

Is he in jail for life or will he be up for parole sometime?

Sorry if these questions have already been considered they are just points I thought of.

It’s encouraging how many people know about this case online based on the comments under articles and remember it well. Hopefully someone will know some piece of information.


I'm looking into a lot of these questions myself so I do not have a lot of answers but I did hear last night on CBS news that he is eligible to be released from jail in five years or his sentence is up in five years. I forget which way it was stated.
 
I think we are all in a frenzy because we know that someone like this has indeed done it before and after.. There is no way someone with his record, only did what they caught him for.

This could be big. I want to know who he worked for so it can be matched up.
I know that Police know and may be keeping it private because they are doing exactly the same thing..

So many crimes before the internet make it tougher but still.. If anyone can find more stuff on this dude, This place can!
 
Whether Helen Craver was born in 1953 or 1954 and died in either 2009 or 2010....she died fairy young....somewhere between ages 55 - 57, depending on which years you use for the birth or the death.

The average life expectancy of a woman in the US is 81 (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/04/life-expectancy-map/), so she died around 25 years before the average American woman. Obviously there are reasons like untreatable cancers, etc., as well as lifestyle choices, that could cause someone to die so relatively young.....but I really do wonder.....

ETA: I just realized Lloyd Welch was in prison when she died. Never mind where this was going....

The Washington Post features an article today on the case. It gives the name of Helen Craver's sister, which provided enough information to track down Craver's married name: Higgs.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/f...=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=92590974&df=all&

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/va...arch.aspx?page=35&fhid=6698&entriesperpage=25 (indicates that she had been married for 26 years at the time of her death, meaning that she married in 1982-1983)
 
I think this is a great lead. If they have been able to positively place him there and have witness accounts of him taking an interest in the girls on that day, then it is very possible, given the fact that he has convictions for raping young girls that he was responsible for whatever happened to the Lyon sisters.

Of course, it doesn't prove his guilt, but I can understand why they have named him as a person of interest and asked the public for information. If they can build a picture of crimes that he may be responsible for, they might just get lucky in one or two of them and find actual tangible evidence of his involvement and this will give LE a good idea of what he might have done with the Lyon sisters, if he was indeed involved in their disappearance.

Just my opinion, but what would be the chances of a convicted sex offender taking an interest in two young girls, but not doing anything to them and then by pure coincidence they get abducted by an entirely different person all on the same day? A billion to one? Must be something like that.

If they can be totally sure that Welch was there that day and did show an interest in the sisters, then (in my opinion) the chances of him NOT being involved in their disappearance that day are very slim indeed.
 
Some interesting parts of the WP article:

Late last year, Montgomery detectives looking through the case files began to take a new look at Welch. “He jumped out at us in the past couple of months,” said Assistant Montgomery Police Chief Russ Hamill.

Old case file documents show that a young girl who was with the Lyon sisters that afternoon had described a man who followed the three of them that day. Police developed a sketch partly based on that description, they said. It resembles a mug shot taken of Welch a few years later — in 1977 — when he was arrested in a burglary case in Montgomery.

Welch’s niece, Debbie Roe, 38, of Dover, Del., said she is the only member of the family who is in regular contact with him. She said she has written letters on and off to him for the past 13 years during his incarceration. She described him as “sweet” and said he is excited when she visits him in prison.

She said that Welch has denied involvement in the disappearance of the Lyon girls but told her that he was at Wheaton Plaza that day.

“The only thing he said he did was walk around the mall,” Roe said. “I think they need to look elsewhere. He doesn’t know where the girls are.”

Dolores Askins of Silver Spring said her sister, Helen Craver, dated Welch for about 10 years starting in the 1970s. During that time, Askins said, the couple worked for a variety of carnivals, setting up rides and tending the grounds. They lived on the road and had no permanent home. Askins said that they had four children together but that authorities eventually removed them because the couple were unable to provide for them.

“Nobody was happy that she took up with Lloyd,” Askins said. “Everybody was happy when she left him simply because of what she had been through.”
 
The Washington Post features an article today on the case. It gives the name of Helen Craver's sister, which provided enough information to track down Craver's married name: Higgs.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/f...=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=92590974&df=all&

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/va...arch.aspx?page=35&fhid=6698&entriesperpage=25 (indicates that she had been married for 26 years at the time of her death, meaning that she married in 1982-1983)

Looks like they took down the link for her.

Good sleuthing...
 
Court System:Circuit Court for Prince George's County - Civil System
Case Number:CAL88-02911
Case Description:ST OF MD VS WELCH
Case Type:Lien/Judgment
Filing Date:02/25/1988
Case Status:Case Closed Statistically
Defendant/Respondent Information

Party Type: DefendantParty No.:2
Name: Alyene Welch
Address:
City: State:Zip Code:
Party Type: DefendantParty No.:1
Name: Lloyd L Welch
Address:
City: State:Zip Code:
Dockets

(Each Document listed. Documents are listed in Document No./Sequence No. order)
Date: 02/25/1988
Document Name: CaseType: Tax Lien
Docket Text:
Date: 02/25/1988
Document Name: Oral Arguments Held
Docket Text: Action: TERM
Date: 02/25/1988
Document Name: CaseDisp: Terminated
Docket Text:

ETA: I've been trying to find out who Alyene Welch was. Wife? Mother?

I would guess that it's his his stepmother (called Edna here) (also here).
 
From an NBC4 Washington story:

Welch's stepmother, Edna Welch, told News4 she recalls Welch and Craver hearing about a reward in the case and Welch saying he was going to try to collect it.

"Lloyd and Helen were sitting on my sofa when the news broke about the girls, and they were talking about a reward for information," Edna Welch said. "Lloyd thought he was going to get something in it, I reckon, and he called in and said he knew something, but I don't think he knew a darn thing."
 
I have some of the same questions as posters on Page 8 of this thread.

Have there been details released on his known crimes that would help us narrow down possible unsolveds based on something besides location?

I think all we have right now is that he traveled with a carnival that often set up in mall parking lots. And he's a pedophile.

Nothing on preferred victim type? Age? Race? MO?
 
Unfortunately, even if the two things are true beyond a doubt, they do not constitute proof of any crime.

True, but it goes beyond simply him being a sex offender who was at the mall that day.

3. The girls were seen that day with a man who was described as being fixated with them.

4. The man bears a very close resemblance to Welch, based on the police sketch.

Even those two additional facts almost certainly wouldn't be enough to convict in a court, but (for me) it certainly makes him THE suspect.

I imagine the police took photos of Welch to witnesses who assisted with the sketch and were unable to make a positive ID (or they're just not telling us yet). That would be the obvious thing to do to connect them up, and might be enough to prosecute with a strong witness ID. Convictions with no body are rare, but they happen.

As noted in a post above, Welch's niece acknowledged he was at the mall that day. Not sure where the police got that information initially. That seems to be what's breaking this case.
 
Now that the WP article explains where the sketch that looks like LLW came from (a girl who was w/ them earlier that day describing a man who was following them), I'm even more confused as to why that sketch was never released to the public before now.
 
Unfortunately, even if the two things are true beyond a doubt, they do not constitute proof of any crime. They certainly are reason to investigate further, but the rules of evidence are pretty strict.

Welch may have been at Wheaton Plaza that day, but so were thousands of other people. That circumstance alone is not sufficient to establish any guilt. Now, couple that alleged admission with someone positively sighting him there AND possibly approaching the girls, talking to them, etc, and you build your case. BUT still you would have to prove that he abducted the girls, and or killed them. And there is just no forensic evidence of that yet.

Welch being a sex offender is another factor which makes him a viable suspect. But, again, it is not proof. In a trial, you cannot present misconduct not specifically charged. In fact, even when someone is convicted of an offense and the trial moves to sentencing phase, a defense lawyer would argue against the jury hearing of any sex offenses which took place AFTER the crime he is convicted of, because it is prejudicial. Theoretically, a person might kill someone and LATER become a sex offender. The two crimes (it would be argued) are mutually exclusive.

This is in fact what happened with Fred Coffey. He was first convicted of sexual misconduct with children (occurred in 1986). Next, he was convicted of the 1979 murder of a child. In sentencing, the jury heard all about the sex offense convictions and took those into consideration when they voted to give Coffey the death penalty. Coffey was granted a retrial which excluded mention of the sex offenses, and the new jury sentenced him to Life in Prison.

That said, it is indeed significant that this Welch has an evil background and that he might be proven to have been at Wheaton Plaza that day in 1975.

I believe that there are some other potential suspects who are more likely than Welch. Unfortunately police have not proven that any of them were actually at Wheaton Plaza that day.

True..but not everyone at the mall that day was a rapist who was seen near the girls. LE hasn't brought up TRM in quite some time,there must be a reason for that. It's the media that keeps going back to him because they had nothing else until now and Coffee just never fit for me and he couldn't be placed at the mall on 3/25/1975. I just feel that we need to keep in my mind that if LE has moved on to a RSO that they can place at the mall that day, who was seen showing interest in Kate and Sheila....I think we need to really give this guy a good look. Kate and Sheila deserve that. JMO
 
True..but not everyone at the mall that day was a rapist who was seen near the girls. LE hasn't brought up TRM in quite some time,there must be a reason for that. It's the media that keeps going back to him because they had nothing else until now and Coffee just never fit for me and he couldn't be placed at the mall on 3/25/1975. I just feel that we need to keep in my mind that if LE has moved on to a RSO that they can place at the mall that day, who was seen showing interest in Kate and Sheila....I think we need to really give this guy a good look. Kate and Sheila deserve that. JMO

To be precise, LE has not brought up the TRM since late April 1975, when they last distributed the sketch of the Tape Recorder man to the news media. They investigated that lead as thoroughly as possible but were never able to locate TRM, in spite of numerous other leads which came in because of it. TRM exists today as an integral part of the Lyon Sisters' story.

Contrast that with the most recent release by LE of this "Long Hair Man" Sketch. According to press accounts, they had this information and sketch for some 39 years and are just now (well last November) releasing it to the public. How many other sketches do they have in the files?

I certainly feel that Welch should be checked out thoroughly. Maybe he was at Wheaton Plaza that day, and even following the girls. But remember that this new "LHM" sketch was of an UNKNOWN individual and is in no way proof that Welch was there. What police are asking for is witnesses who can testify that he was there.

If in fact Welch was there and following the girls, he might be able to shed some light on what became of them, even if he did not himself cause their disappearance. He is indeed a Person of Interest in this case.

Remember that there were several other persons at the Mall that day that paid attention to Sheila and Kate and came forward to police. Police have never before mentioned a young girl witness who was with the Lyon sisters.

There seems to be a lot of new information just coming out.
 
I think this is a great lead....

... Just my opinion, but what would be the chances of a convicted sex offender taking an interest in two young girls, but not doing anything to them and then by pure coincidence they get abducted by an entirely different person all on the same day? A billion to one? Must be something like that.....


Indeed! And yet we have to believe exactly that - this billion to one chance has occurred, because we are now confronted with TWO separate sketches of UNKNOWN suspects.

I have been saying this about the Tape Recorder Man over the years - What are the chances that the girls met one weird predator and then were abducted by a completely different predator a short time later?
 
I read through the thread and the news stories linked, trying to get answers to my own questions. They weren't really answered. LE is keeping mum on a lot of info. It looks like his preferred victim is juvenile female. They didn't give an age range. Here's what I have so far:

POI - LLoyd Lee Welch Jr. AKA Michael Welch AKA Mike Welch

DOB - 12/30/1956 (MD court records source says 1952)

Arrested for a burglary in the same area as the Lyon sisters (so we know he's a burglar)

Convicted child sex offender (child victims, no ages given)

Jailed in DE since 1997 for several sex offenses

Known to hitchhike throughout the DC area (was this as a teen, before he got a car? He's originally from that area. Or was this a habit? He's preferred method of travel?)

Dad killed mom in a drunk driving accident. Welch was in the car at the time. Went into foster care. Back home around age 11/12, getting into trouble with the law.

Known to walk tracks from Kensington to Silver Spring

Worked as a landscaper

Drifter

Stayed in homeless shelters and hotels

Originally from the DC area, traveled extensively throughout the US from the 1970s to the mid 1990s with a carnival company (and girlfriend Helen Craver, now deceased) often setting up at malls

Charged with raping juveniles in VA DE and SC (ages?)

Arrested in several states, charged with sexual offenses against young girls (so we know female victims, at least in these cases, I'm assuming no male victims in his known history)

In 1979, driving w/o license, in a 77Pont03. I assume 77 means the model year. I have no idea what that "03" means. I looked up Pontiac models available in 1977 on wikipedia to see if I could figure out if it was some kind of shorthand. These are the models from their list:

Acadian
Astre
Bonneville
Catalina
Firebird
Grand Prix
Safari
Grand Safari
LeMans
Phoenix
(Streamliner, Silver Streak, Torpedo, -models with no year given, could be antique?)
Sunbird
Trans Am
Ventura (compact)
 
About that 77Pont03, any car people have ideas? Would this be a 3 door/hatchback description?

Looks like the Sunbird, Astre, Ventura, were hatchbacks.... need to keep looking.

And could someone describe a hatchback as a station wagon by mistake? Didn't a witness say the sisters were seen bound in a station wagon?

ETA - just realized the years are off for a possible mistaken description between a hatch and wagon: 1975, girls possibly sighted a week after going missing, 1977, year of car in description of 1979 ticket for driving w/o license
 
I'm still amazed that there is a POI in this case. I have always felt Mike Debardaleben could be the perp, but with all of this info coming out about Welch, I have to rethink my theory.

I think the police sketch does look a lot like Welch.
 
To be precise, LE has not brought up the TRM since late April 1975, when they last distributed the sketch of the Tape Recorder man to the news media. They investigated that lead as thoroughly as possible but were never able to locate TRM, in spite of numerous other leads which came in because of it. TRM exists today as an integral part of the Lyon Sisters' story.

Contrast that with the most recent release by LE of this "Long Hair Man" Sketch. According to press accounts, they had this information and sketch for some 39 years and are just now (well last November) releasing it to the public. How many other sketches do they have in the files?

I certainly feel that Welch should be checked out thoroughly. Maybe he was at Wheaton Plaza that day, and even following the girls. But remember that this new "LHM" sketch was of an UNKNOWN individual and is in no way proof that Welch was there. What police are asking for is witnesses who can testify that he was there.

If in fact Welch was there and following the girls, he might be able to shed some light on what became of them, even if he did not himself cause their disappearance. He is indeed a Person of Interest in this case.

Remember that there were several other persons at the Mall that day that paid attention to Sheila and Kate and came forward to police. Police have never before mentioned a young girl witness who was with the Lyon sisters.

There seems to be a lot of new information just coming out.


Welch told his niece that he was there that day. There is a witness stating that there was a man near the girls who was fixated on them. That witness gave a description and a sketch was made. That sketch is a GREAT likeness to Welch. Welch is a RSO. Could there be other sketches of RSO's in the Lyon case file? Anything is possible. I'm really sad that this one sat in the file for all these years but I think LE got slammed in the beginning and didn't quite know how to handle a case this unique. But this man has a neon blinking sign over his head that cannot and should not be ignored. You already know my thoughts on TRM and I know your thoughts on him as well. We don't have to agree but we can still keep working on this an respect each others opinions. :)
 
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