Lyons' talk of 'Mitigation'

[lin]

The Anthonys say they support KC. They show up at court. They've tried to use the media to plead her case. It's always seemed absurd to me that they don't visit her in jail. They wear shamrocks to send her support. They send her messages of love and honor from Caylee's televised funeral. However, what parent loves and supports their child with legal problems but never, ever visits them in jail...for a year or more? It makes no sense, and I've always wondered "what's up with that?" So visits are taped. You know that. You act accordingly. You go in their and tell the kid to tell the truth. You go in and say, "We know we can't talk but lets just sit her and look at each other because we want to be here for you and we want you to feel it." You go in sit their and read her books or magazine articles. Whatever. You watch what you say knowing it'll probably come out on TV or you don't care if it does. Maybe you just have surface conversations, but you go. And they let you. You march in there and support them the best you can...if you want to. That isn't happening. There must be something REALLY BIG going on here that is standing in the way.

Anyone think that perhaps the Anthonys' communicate with Casey through Jose via computer, even perhaps live using computer cams? Could they do that? It seems impossible that haven't done anything to touch base with her since last October. If that's really the case, it makes me think somebody's got something HUGE to hide and they aren't taking any chances.

They've admitted sending letters through JB which is against the rules if not the law. Wouldn't surprise me if there was video conferencing as well. And I agree with you; I'd be moving heaven and earth to visit my child. I'd be showing up every day to get turned away by them but they'd for sure know I was there trying.

 

[Paladine]

BBM :clap: I agree w/ you, some people are evil. And some people don't get it--that misplaced loyalty and devotion to people who are not worthy never fixes the problems. It just sacrifices others who are far more deserving of that loyalty and devotion. And BTW, George is not 1/4 of the person you are. It takes a certain strength of character to do what you are doing. He lacks it.

You hit the nail on the head...her father is depressed in his room...she hasn't been back since she picked up her welfare cheque after he smoothed things over with the worker...my cousin works for childrens aid...she will be warned. I do pray he someday learns she will throw anyone under the bus...no limits...or he'll never find peace.

Sometimes it's about letting go. Like Maya Angelou says...when people show you who they are, believe them the first time. Cindy...? You listening?

 

[autumnlover]

I'm not very good at this, but I made this one for you.

Outstanding, Valhall. You said it beautifully and creatively. Definitely a keeper.

 

[ZsaZsa]

The Anthonys say they support KC. They show up at court. They've tried to use the media to plead her case. It's always seemed absurd to me that they don't visit her in jail. They wear shamrocks to send her support. They send her messages of love and honor from Caylee's televised funeral. However, what parent loves and supports their child with legal problems but never, ever visits them in jail...for a year or more? It makes no sense, and I've always wondered "what's up with that?" So visits are taped. You know that. You act accordingly. You go in their and tell the kid to tell the truth. You go in and say, "We know we can't talk but lets just sit her and look at each other because we want to be here for you and we want you to feel it." You go in sit their and read her books or magazine articles. Whatever. You watch what you say knowing it'll probably come out on TV or you don't care if it does. Maybe you just have surface conversations, but you go. And they let you. You march in there and support them the best you can...if you want to. That isn't happening. There must be something REALLY BIG going on here that is standing in the way.

Anyone think that perhaps the Anthonys' communicate with Casey through Jose via computer, even perhaps live using computer cams? Could they do that? It seems impossible that haven't done anything to touch base with her since last October. If that's really the case, it makes me think somebody's got something HUGE to hide and they aren't taking any chances.

What's up with that is - SHE doesn't want to see THEM...

 

[OneLostGrl]

This "mitigation" crap just hits me the wrong way. I have my OWN little Casey Anthony in my life, a Step-Daughter that I have watched lie, steal, manipulate, forged cheques on her dead mothers estate acct, forged/changed the amount on a birthday cheque from me, stole thousands from her dad, had fake jobs, denied a blossoming belly was a pregnancy (she claimed it was too many donuts and her father believed her), and NOW has shown up, after 3 months missing, with a BABY! Her Father's inability to stick to any consequences and enabling her outrageous lies has fueled the fire...BUT...she IS, imo, a true Sociopath.

I awoke one morning last week to find her and a Boy I have never met, after 3 months missing, sitting in the livingroom of our $500,000 dollar home, doing a WELFARE APP with a social worker! I made it clear she hadn't lived with us for 3 months...and the worker then said "So, you don't know about the Baby"! omg...I worry that little baby, if she gets it back, it's in Childrens Aid, will end up like poor Caylee.

Imo...some people are just plain evil. I'm leaving...it's just too sick and she's not my daughter, I have no power, her father protects her and I need to protect my children from her. George should have done the same.

Maybe this will be what changes her.. maybe this will be what motivates her to change who she has allowed herself to become. Either way, you are doing the right thing.. for you and your children!!

 

[OneLostGrl]

Another words, AL will have to throw CA and GA under the bus that KC is driving.

I said earlier that I could see CA taking a major hit publicly, to save KC. Considering that it would just be a SODDI theory and not always mean that she would be arrested for it. It would not be 'real'.

But for what your saying, CA would have to, sorta agree to take this hit in stride and agree to itl. That would make it 'real." I don't see CA taking that sort of 'real' hit.

This is going to be interesting to watch AL as she does her job with this family. Thanks for explaining how her job works.

Bold is mine-

Perhaps not but I can sure see poor George tossing himself under that bus in Cindy's place!

 

[Leila]

A bit OT BUT
Does anyone else see the irony in the term "Sunshine Law" and the fact that Caylee sang "Please don't take my sunshine away."??? It just hit me.

Back OT
I recognize that AL's job is to get the DP off the table and IMO she feels no obligation, nor has she been contracted to do more than is necessary to facilitate the removal of the DP. So, in light of her contracted services we can and should assume she will leave no stone unturned. It's her job. She is not trying to prove KC's innocence, she is trying to keep her from the DP.

However, given the Defense's previous opposition to a gag order, does anyone else see the GIANT, HUGE, GARGANTUAN, ENORMOUS, et al failure of JB to work in her best interests? Thank GOD, Judge Strickland has required her to be present for all hearings, AND thank GOD that there are so many high profile attorney's on her "team". I don't see that she could ever argue ineffective counsel, but can absense of logic or common sense in JB's representation ever get him disbarred? I can not fathom how someone like JB can be allowed to practice law, and his repeated submission of motions full of errors and ommisssions should at the very least get someone's attention.

I've felt for a long time that JB latched onto this case for one reason and one reason only, and that was for his own self-interests. He sees this high profile case as his ticket to fame and success. It's never been about defending Casey Anthony. It's been all about promoting Jose Baez.

 

[Valhall]

BBM

Exactly! I have a friend who is a Mitigation Specialist and I have worked with her on a couple of other cases and this is EXACTLY what AL's job is. She is not there to prove guilt or innocence. She is there to show that her life has already been so horrible (not hard to prove, I would imagine), that KC was not taught the right things to do in the right situations, that there is no finding of future dangerousness and that to give this poor poor girl the death penalty :sick:. My friend is my hero. She is the most noble person that I know in the world and I believe that she is truly an angel. But if she were to call me up tonight and say "I have been asked to fly down to Florida and work the KC case, would you come with me and help interview and investigate I would have to decline. In fact, I have been a practitioner of nonviolence my whole life and could not imagine hurting anyone ever. In this case I would not only have to decline for all of the obvious reasons, but also because that dp might be carried out by me before it was over with.

ETA I truly believe that I hate KC even more than I despise M. Huckabee. That's saying something!

First off, I would like to thank you so much for the posts you have made in this thread. They have helped me tremendously in understanding the mitigation process. I agree with you that it is a noble cause. Anyone who truly does have circumstances that may have led to them being so dysfunctional they committed a violent crime, should have those mitigating circumstances presented during the sentencing phase. I have faith in the legal system that whatever is decided by a jury after hearing these issues is acceptable to me.

BUT (there's that big but again!) I don't agree with this part "not hard to prove, I would imagine". Not unless there is some extremely traumatic/abusive secret yet to be revealed. It's going to be a hard sell to go with "she was just so darned spoiled she never learned how to act". While everyone on the jury may conclude CA ought to be tied to the same IV at the end of the day, I'm not sure they'd view this as some "horrible little childhood". It would just confirm what they'd probably concluded by the end of the murder trial - that they were dealing with a tantrum-throwing brat that thought she could just say "I'm a spiteful ***** and by the way - here's my latest lie, don't question it or act like a cop or I'll throw you outta my house!" *stomp feet and cross arms*

 

[Valhall]

P.S. You've also helped me understand that if KC is proven guilty, but AL manages to get her out of the DP, that AL can claim another victory. I now firmly understand AL's goal here - acquittal or lesser conviction if possible, avoidance of DP when that doesn't work.

BUT (lol there it is again!) I wonder how much longer it will take in this whole "mitigation investigation" before AL realizes she has met her match on this one? I'm figuring the light will come on for her some where about midway into the first hour with CA. That's when she is going to realize that she has no way to disconnect the "ugliness" of her client from the "ugliness" of the family. Their like a big fungal growth of ugliness...all of them are connected and feed off each other's bullcrap.

 

[yolorado]

What's up with that is - SHE doesn't want to see THEM...

Actually, I agree. I think it is her choice (or JB's), not theirs, but I don't think that's not going to look good for her at trial if it comes up. I also think that they might already be in touch through JB's computer.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Actually, I agree. I think it is her choice (or JB's), not theirs, but I don't think that's not going to look good for her at trial if it comes up. I also think that they might already be in touch through JB's computer.

Me too! I have always thought that they probably talked via Skype courtesy of JB's laptop, which he insists on taking into jail, but that ended after the cremation of Caylee. ?

 

[ThinkTank]

sleutherontheside
A bit OT BUT
Does anyone else see the irony in the term "Sunshine Law" and the fact that Caylee sang "Please don't take my sunshine away."??? It just hit me.

Originally Posted by ThinkTank
WOW! that really struck me hard when you pointed that out!!! Gave me goose bumps and made me tear up to visualize baby Caylee singing the Sunshine song and begging not to take her "Sunshine" away .... then we have the Florida "Sunshine" laws that are allowing a voice for Caylee to be heard! I wish I was artistic enough to make a graphic/video to represent this beautiful analogy. Anyone capable of doing that????

I'm not very good at this, but I made this one for you.

Absolutely BEAUTIFUL with the SUN shining in on precious Caylee's baby face!!!!!!
Thank you!

 

[ThinkTank]

P.S. You've also helped me understand that if KC is proven guilty, but AL manages to get her out of the DP, that AL can claim another victory. I now firmly understand AL's goal here - acquittal or lesser conviction if possible, avoidance of DP when that doesn't work.

BUT (lol there it is again!) I wonder how much longer it will take in this whole "mitigation investigation" before AL realizes she has met her match on this one? I'm figuring the light will come on for her some where about midway into the first hour with CA. That's when she is going to realize that she has no way to disconnect the "ugliness" of her client from the "ugliness" of the family. Their like a big fungal growth of ugliness...all of them are connected and feed off each other's bullcrap.

I believe that Cindy and KC and Lee are too arrogant and stubborn to see the big picture (saving KC from the death penalty) and too self absorbed to sacrifice any personal pride to benefit someone else, even their family member whom they claim to love.

 

[WolfmarsGirl]

This "mitigation" crap just hits me the wrong way. I have my OWN little Casey Anthony in my life, a Step-Daughter that I have watched lie, steal, manipulate, forged cheques on her dead mothers estate acct, forged/changed the amount on a birthday cheque from me, stole thousands from her dad, had fake jobs, denied a blossoming belly was a pregnancy (she claimed it was too many donuts and her father believed her), and NOW has shown up, after 3 months missing, with a BABY! Her Father's inability to stick to any consequences and enabling her outrageous lies has fueled the fire...BUT...she IS, imo, a true Sociopath.

I awoke one morning last week to find her and a Boy I have never met, after 3 months missing, sitting in the livingroom of our $500,000 dollar home, doing a WELFARE APP with a social worker! I made it clear she hadn't lived with us for 3 months...and the worker then said "So, you don't know about the Baby"! omg...I worry that little baby, if she gets it back, it's in Childrens Aid, will end up like poor Caylee.

Imo...some people are just plain evil. I'm leaving...it's just too sick and she's not my daughter, I have no power, her father protects her and I need to protect my children from her. George should have done the same.

Before you go, offer to take that baby off her hands. Please.

 

[Brini]

Before you go, offer to take that baby off her hands. Please.

Pity judges can't order tubal ligation, for some cases.

 

[MissJames]

First off, I would like to thank you so much for the posts you have made in this thread. They have helped me tremendously in understanding the mitigation process. I agree with you that it is a noble cause. Anyone who truly does have circumstances that may have led to them being so dysfunctional they committed a violent crime, should have those mitigating circumstances presented during the sentencing phase. I have faith in the legal system that whatever is decided by a jury after hearing these issues is acceptable to me.

BUT (there's that big but again!) I don't agree with this part "not hard to prove, I would imagine". Not unless there is some extremely traumatic/abusive secret yet to be revealed. It's going to be a hard sell to go with "she was just so darned spoiled she never learned how to act". While everyone on the jury may conclude CA ought to be tied to the same IV at the end of the day, I'm not sure they'd view this as some "horrible little childhood". It would just confirm what they'd probably concluded by the end of the murder trial - that they were dealing with a tantrum-throwing brat that thought she could just say "I'm a spiteful ***** and by the way - here's my latest lie, don't question it or act like a cop or I'll throw you outta my house!" *stomp feet and cross arms*

ITA No one has come forward to say they suspected something was wrong in KC's life as she was growing up.No teachers have commented on seeing anything.The only thing neighbors have said was seeing KC screaming at Cindy. Not a single friend has said they noticed abuse ,emotional or physical.
The worst that's come out is that Cindy held Caylee first and KC never got over it

 

[ZsaZsa]

I am sure Cindy undermined Casey's attempts to parent though, she just has to be in control and the poor kid was in the middle of a permanent power struggle.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Bold mine.

Oh man, Cindy ain't gonna let that chit fly...NO WAY! :snooty:

Cindy may not let it fly willingly, even after AL explains to her that it needs to be done and that she has to take one for the team. A good mitigation specialist will give her a little push. If she doesn't agree to it, AL or her mitigation specialist will just go ahead and tell people how she is and will paint the picture even if Cindy says she won't go along. The family getting along would be nice, but it not absolutely necessary. Sometimes it works in the clients favor for the family NOT to be loving. Depends on the case and the circumstances. I don't think, with all the video out there it will be hard to prove the dysfunction in this family. AL and/or her mitigation specialist will try to get everyone on the same page, but if it can't be done that way, she will take whatever route she has to.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

Another words, AL will have to throw CA and GA under the bus that KC is driving.

I said earlier that I could see CA taking a major hit publicly, to save KC. Considering that it would just be a SODDI theory and not always mean that she would be arrested for it. It would not be 'real'.

But for what your saying, CA would have to, sorta agree to take this hit in stride and agree to itl. That would make it 'real." I don't see CA taking that sort of 'real' hit.

This is going to be interesting to watch AL as she does her job with this family. Thanks for explaining how her job works.

Not necessarily. She wants to throw them under the bus. If Cindy refuses she will do it on her own, but yes, it will help her a lot if CA will take the stand and say that since all of this happened she has had some time to reflect and has decided that she was too harsh on her in some ways and too controlling, but also an enabler and they want her to admit that it was all her fault, or the fault of she and George. And she will also want to come up with other mitigating factors. They may bring the alledged miscarriage into play since it was right around that time and blame some of it on hormones. They will pick all of it apart. If they can't get CA to agree to take the hit, they will just use examples and stories of her childhood and use them without her to make the case.

 

[HRCODEPINK]

The family can have f2f meetings whenever they want-- at the prison, like everybody else.

If there was a REAL "mitigating" circumstance, it would be there whether the family discussed it, or not and the lawyers would likely already know about it.

The only reason for these "meetings," IMHO, is to get everybody's stories together.

All this is is an excuse to get KC out and unobserved.


And, at the root of the issue-- do ALL perps get the same privilege? If not-- NO.

EXACTLY!!! If there are mitigating circumstances because of the family they want everyone to know about them. Judging from the previous tapes released I would say that CA was trying to be reasonable with an unreasonable person. They will be hard pressed to explain how any mother could fear for her own life, or the lives of family members over that of her own child. My parents would gladly speak about anything and everything and cooperate fully with LE about everything in public, even if they were being threatened to save any one of my children. To us, there are no more important people in the world and you would have to kill me to keep me from any of my kids. I'd want to die without them anyway!

I would be showing these tapes off if there were mitigating circumstances. So far the only mitigating circumstances I have seen is CA and GA's enabling.