MA - Bella Bond, 2, found dead, Deer Island, Boston Harbor, June 2015 - #2

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ilovepierre said:
Very similar looking!
But she went missing from OK.
LE said that isotope testing on Baby Doe revealed that she is a local to Boston and area.
Click to expand...

Yeah but I question that..... for example I live in Florida. My gparents live in Alabama. We have the same trees and plants as they have in their yard and area.... we are surrounded by cotton fields, my gparents back yard is cotton fields... so I question the test... if same plants, pollen etc are in 2 different states, hours distance away, why can't this be same situation........ so unless that can be explained this girl could be from somewhere else.... Jus like the Alabama, Florida philosophy....am I wrong? Please explain if I'm not making sense.
 
there are different strains.

Floridian said:
Yeah but I question that..... for example I live in Florida. My gparents live in Alabama. We have the same trees and plants as they have in their yard and area.... we are surrounded by cotton fields, my gparents back yard is cotton fields... so I question the test... if same plants, pollen etc are in 2 different states, hours distance away, why can't this be same situation........ so unless that can be explained this girl could be from somewhere else.... Jus like the Alabama, Florida philosophy....am I wrong? Please explain if I'm not making sense.
Click to expand...
 
Floridian said:
Yeah but I question that..... for example I live in Florida. My gparents live in Alabama. We have the same trees and plants as they have in their yard and area.... we are surrounded by cotton fields, my gparents back yard is cotton fields... so I question the test... if same plants, pollen etc are in 2 different states, hours distance away, why can't this be same situation........ so unless that can be explained this girl could be from somewhere else.... Jus like the Alabama, Florida philosophy....am I wrong? Please explain if I'm not making sense.
Click to expand...
Also that girl wasn't missing until after Baby Doe was found. She is shorter and weighs more than Baby Doe. The resemblance is there but nothing else works.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk
 
Floridian said:
Yeah but I question that..... for example I live in Florida. My gparents live in Alabama. We have the same trees and plants as they have in their yard and area.... we are surrounded by cotton fields, my gparents back yard is cotton fields... so I question the test... if same plants, pollen etc are in 2 different states, hours distance away, why can't this be same situation........ so unless that can be explained this girl could be from somewhere else.... Jus like the Alabama, Florida philosophy....am I wrong? Please explain if I'm not making sense.
Click to expand...

BBM:


Your hypothesis is interesting and IF you really mean that you & your gparents have the EXACT same plants, that is YOUR plants are the "children" or "cuttings" of the gparents' foliage/plants, then the geographical distance becomes a "sub-issue" because the DNA (yep, there is plant DNA studies in forensic science) remains familiar
The other contributory factor in the pollen studies is the chemical make-up as indicated by the chemicals within the specific growing soil (area).
 
joypath said:
BBM: The condition of her fingertips would be compromised by aquatic activity (not knowing if anything were done to her pads pre-disposal can also figure into the inability to recover usable prints, keywords are "usable prints"). Also under advisement is where might her fingerprints be registered, most youngsters are NOT routinely printed. From general experience, I would expect that her pads were damaged by nibbling critters vs abrasions from the rocks/gravel.
UBM: Her nails should & would be present, even tho it was probably futile, the nail beds were scraped for detritus. Nope, neither the fingernails nor toenails would just fall off into the bag.....at that point of discovery (too short of time).

IIRC, no specifics have been released regarding the physical condition of the bag other than it was "commercial". IMHO, the bag was exposed to the elements via the opening (even if "tied", the generalized movement of the tides probably would "open it a bit") and the dog headed over to "investigate". Like any good doggie Mom, she probably investigated too! The first responding officer indicated that he saw her tiny feet so there was environmental exposure.
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I really enjoyed your post. Thank you for all of the information. I appreciate it. We all do!
 
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...nocent-lost/7UrhaGK6aHxm1MfumaOR9L/story.html
<snipped>
"They sent a single tooth and 200 strands of hair to a lab in Salt Lake City, Utah, called IsoForensics Inc. The oxygen and hydrogen isotopes in her tissue could tell researchers where her drinking water came from, and the strontium isotopes could give them clues about the origins of what she ate and bathed in, said a research scientist at the lab, Brett Tipple. The hair is a historical record of those isotopes, he said, that will show analysts whether and where she moved."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-girl-baby-doe-boston-area-pollen-tests/story?id=33058090
<snipped>
"we collected pollen from evidence at the scene and sent to a government lab.
We then presented the results of that testing to experts, who offered their opinions that the pollen was specific to the greater Boston area," Wark said.

So it makes no difference what 2 states have the same trees and plants, whether there is cotton, or wheat or corn, grass, dandelions or etc.. Pollen research is exacting microscopic analyses regarding the types, shape, strains and varieties on a cellular level including environmental contributions. Not based on some simplistic visual level. I could drive around until I die and never see an isotope, so how could I question such kinds of analyses? How can anyone based on living in 2 different states?

I think these investigators are doing a pretty spectacular job.

MOO
 
Also, two locations could have 95% the same plants, and 5% unique to the area, but that 5% would still identify the region.
 
Floridian said:
What's strains????
Click to expand...

Strains are similar to varieties only more specific, like different flue strains. Not every flu virus is the same strain. Some have different shapes and different ways and rates of replicating. (reproducing).
Or tulip varieties if you want to envision larger things. Not every tulip has the same shape. Not every Tulip variety's seed has the same maturation, shape or requirements for fertilization.
Different strains refer to microscopic (smaller than you can see) differences in similar or dissimilar chemical or physical properties with very minute differences.

I don't know. I am only a disabled janitor.

MOO
 
Floridian said:
Yeah but I question that..... for example I live in Florida. My gparents live in Alabama. We have the same trees and plants as they have in their yard and area.... we are surrounded by cotton fields, my gparents back yard is cotton fields... so I question the test... if same plants, pollen etc are in 2 different states, hours distance away, why can't this be same situation........ so unless that can be explained this girl could be from somewhere else.... Jus like the Alabama, Florida philosophy....am I wrong? Please explain if I'm not making sense.
Click to expand...

Plants in Alabama and Florida may APPEAR the same, but genetically, they are different. An Alabama plant could be grown in soil that may have more (or less) of a certain chemical makeup than that same plant from Florida. The soil will be different in both States, making the plants' genetic makeup different from each other. The isotope testing on Baby Doe shows that the area she grew up in has plants/pollen/grasses, etc that are either specific to Boston and area or have more or less of a certain chemical in them than in a plant in say, California, for example.

Like steleman posted below, it's like a strain of a virus. Same virus, but different makeup of the virus. Each with their own distinguishing characteristics. Characteristics that make each strain different from each other.

Hope this makes sense...

IMO
 
Steleheart said:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...nocent-lost/7UrhaGK6aHxm1MfumaOR9L/story.html
<snipped>
"They sent a single tooth and 200 strands of hair to a lab in Salt Lake City, Utah, called IsoForensics Inc. The oxygen and hydrogen isotopes in her tissue could tell researchers where her drinking water came from, and the strontium isotopes could give them clues about the origins of what she ate and bathed in, said a research scientist at the lab, Brett Tipple. The hair is a historical record of those isotopes, he said, that will show analysts whether and where she moved."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-girl-baby-doe-boston-area-pollen-tests/story?id=33058090
<snipped>
"we collected pollen from evidence at the scene and sent to a government lab.
We then presented the results of that testing to experts, who offered their opinions that the pollen was specific to the greater Boston area," Wark said.

So it makes no difference what 2 states have the same trees and plants, whether there is cotton, or wheat or corn, grass, dandelions or etc.. Pollen research is exacting microscopic analyses regarding the types, shape, strains and varieties on a cellular level including environmental contributions. Not based on some simplistic visual level. I could drive around until I die and never see an isotope, so how could I question such kinds of analyses? How can anyone based on living in 2 different states?

I think these investigators are doing a pretty spectacular job.

MOO
Click to expand...
I've always thought that was awesome and wondered why they don't do that with every UID. It would help solve many cases I think.
 
Okay, let me clarify that I am not asking these questions because I'm trying to argue that they are not doing what needs to be done. I'm asking because I didn't understand how that testing works, and I know for fact I was not the only person thinking that.... so for me to question that absolutely...... I'm glad they are doing all these things, I just wanted to understand how that worked with plants and pollen. I think many would've questioned especially not understanding.
Steleheart said:
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2...nocent-lost/7UrhaGK6aHxm1MfumaOR9L/story.html
<snipped>
"They sent a single tooth and 200 strands of hair to a lab in Salt Lake City, Utah, called IsoForensics Inc. The oxygen and hydrogen isotopes in her tissue could tell researchers where her drinking water came from, and the strontium isotopes could give them clues about the origins of what she ate and bathed in, said a research scientist at the lab, Brett Tipple. The hair is a historical record of those isotopes, he said, that will show analysts whether and where she moved."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-girl-baby-doe-boston-area-pollen-tests/story?id=33058090
<snipped>
"we collected pollen from evidence at the scene and sent to a government lab.
We then presented the results of that testing to experts, who offered their opinions that the pollen was specific to the greater Boston area," Wark said.

So it makes no difference what 2 states have the same trees and plants, whether there is cotton, or wheat or corn, grass, dandelions or etc.. Pollen research is exacting microscopic analyses regarding the types, shape, strains and varieties on a cellular level including environmental contributions. Not based on some simplistic visual level. I could drive around until I die and never see an isotope, so how could I question such kinds of analyses? How can anyone based on living in 2 different states?

I think these investigators are doing a pretty spectacular job.

MOO
Click to expand...
 
Hi all, just joining this thread. There are 5 Target stores in that general area with the store in Revere, (Massachusetts) being the closest. 5 miles, 15 minute drive to Deer Island.
 
<modsnip>

There are four Elementary schools in the area that may be expecting a little kindergarten girl that is on the census.
 
<modsnip> anyways, I had your thoughts the first day I sent my child back to school. I wondered myself if hopefully her name was on role call and someone would check into why she isn't in school. I have such high hopes. Keep our fingers crossed.
heartgoesout said:
That awkward moment when your first post is in the middle of "lively" other posts. hehe

There are four Elementary schools in the area that may be expecting a little kindergarten girl that is on the census.
Click to expand...
 
I'm for once in my life surprised. I am surprised she has not been ID'd yet. I almost want to speculate that whatever happened to her was an accident. It makes me wonder if the parent that had her committed suicide after leaving her there...but then again if a deceased adult was found from suicide and was known to have a child that was nowhere to be found 2+2 would have been put together by now. IDK just a theory I have been thinking on...
 
allmybecsloveme said:
I've always thought that was awesome and wondered why they don't do that with every UID. It would help solve many cases I think.
Click to expand...

They really went all out on this case. It is sad that so many UID's get overlooked, but the technical information here is just incredible regarding what forensics are available to researchers. I bet that the people working this case are in their glory, but so many go unidentified.

OTH, Jeremiah Oliver was just missing, unreported and fell through the cracks, eventually found in a suitcase tossed off the highway. Caylee Anthony was questioned about by her family but still was found in a trash bag in the woods nearby.

I truly think this case is just so similar that eventually some person close to her will say something.
IF they do, there is a mountain of information that is available to LE to help convict someone.

I still think investigators are doing and awesome job on this one and who can blame them for putting that time and expense into it.

MOO
 
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