MA - Four children found hidden in apartment with alcohol, drugs, sex toys & corpse - Boston - June 21 2023

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

What I've taken so far from this is why would the firefighters or police lie. My SO but the most likely is someone did a bit of a tidy up prior to LE arriving. Also if there really was nothing inside that apartment that shouldn't have been there, why were the children taken?

I guess the 'unsanitary conditions' wouldn't be able to be quickly swept under the carpet? I can't imagine how unclean a home could be to result in the removal of children though?

Reading between the lines, the mother is clearly a free agent, not a suspect of anything, and has not been detained in custody for anything. So, assuming that is her home, and at least two of the children are hers, then how serious of a child welfare issue could have been happening that she isn't being held for something? And yet the children were taken and not returned after being checked out. So confusing.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I agree. Not to mention a lot of first responders are VOLUNTEERS. MOO

I completely disagree with this statement, although I live in the UK.

First responders are highly qualified technicians working with their emergency service (fire / medical / search and rescue, etc). Sometimes they work alone in rapid response vehicles with specialist equipment and as such they are often the first person to arrive at a scene, most especially a scene where someone has passed away or subsequently dies. Their reports are used by coroners, LE, and the courts. Their word is usually highly reliable and trustworthy and is considered to be as good as the truth as if it were recorded by a police officer. There's no volunteering involved, they are highly trained and trusted with a huge responsibility, that's the level they work at.

JMO MOO

 

[branmuffin]

I completely disagree with this statement, although I live in the UK.

First responders are highly qualified technicians working with their emergency service (fire / medical / search and rescue, etc). Sometimes they work alone in rapid response vehicles with specialist equipment and as such they are often the first person to arrive at a scene, most especially a scene where someone has passed away or subsequently dies. Their reports are used by coroners, LE, and the courts. Their word is usually highly reliable and trustworthy and is considered to be as good as the truth as if it were recorded by a police officer. There's no volunteering involved, they are highly trained and trusted with a huge responsibility, that's the level they work at.

JMO MOO

Unfortunately, in the US and Canada many of the fire departments are manned by volunteers. They take safety training courses but there isn't enough money in the budget to hire full time people, especially in rural areas. This case obviously wasn't in a rural area so I don't know how many, if any of the first responders, were volunteers. I would say in Boston probably none. But where I live now, just north of Toronto, in cottage country the regular fire departments are supplemented by volunteers.

There was a tragic house fire in Quebec this last February where all members of the family perished. The fire department responded but distance and time play a crucial role in successful response time as well as manning the trucks. Partner that with old wooden structures in a rural area and the outcome is not good.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-volunteer-firefighters-1.6328163

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Unfortunately, in the US and Canada many of the fire departments are manned by volunteers. They take safety training courses but there isn't enough money in the budget to hire full time people, especially in rural areas. This case obviously wasn't in a rural area so I don't know how many, if any of the first responders, were volunteers. I would say in Boston probably none. But where I live now, just north of Toronto, in cottage country the regular fire departments are supplemented by volunteers.

There was a tragic house fire in Quebec this last February where all members of the family perished. The fire department responded but distance and time play a crucial role in successful response time as well as manning the trucks. Partner that with old wooden structures in a rural area and the outcome is not good.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/quebec-volunteer-firefighters-1.6328163

Ah, I see the difference in understanding what the term 'first responder' means.

I guess it means both things - that it can be a nearby volunteer who is close to hand and willing and able to help, or someone highly trained and trusted to go ahead solo at high speed with all the fancy equipment to make a quick assessment and trained to save a life in all sorts of different circumstances.

 

[branmuffin]

Ah, I see the difference in understanding what the term 'first responder' means.

I guess it means both things - that it can be a nearby volunteer who is close to hand and willing and able to help, or someone highly trained and trusted to go ahead solo at high speed with all the fancy equipment to make a quick assessment and trained to save a life in all sorts of different circumstances.

Everyone who is willing to help have to go through the same rigorous training as those in paid positions. You can't have someone showing up to help if they don't know what they are doing or how to use the equipment. While there are stories of heroic individuals who enter burning buildings to save people, from a safety perspective of the professionals, they just become another person to save.

 

[Ladyotm]

<RSBM>

Looking at this as much as I can from a legal aspect, it seems obvious to me as well.

If the report as initially stated is in fact 100% true, it paints the community (I don't know if these men were actual transgender or just dressing up, so I don't want to inaccurately describe their community) in a very unpleasant light.

Everything about the original reporting, makes these men sound like utter creeps hiding children in a back room.

Potential incentives to whitewash would be to avoid a lawsuit, or be slandered and/or accused of some manner of phobia or discrimination, etc. Is there any reason at all the BPD might want to avoid a lawsuit to the degree they'd be dishonest about a case? Well, possibly. They have been sued recently so, there's that. It's off topic so no link but anyone can google and find the case to verify this is factual. And curious.

On the flip side, I can't think of a single reason anyone would describe a scene the way the FD did, if it was not true at all. If not true, THOSE are the folks being sued and basically kissing their careers goodbye, and rightfully so, if they lied and made it all up. What incentive would the FD guys have to lie about any of this?

jmo

I'm only on page 6 of the thread but have to weigh in before I read any further. I absolutely believe what the firefighters reported. IMO, the firefighters were first to respond and things went down exactly as they said. In between them attending to their patient and checking on the kids, is it possible the other adults in the apartment gathered up the sex toys and drugs? Absolutely.
Something nefarious could have been going involving the children. OR...the adults put the kids in the back to stop them from seeing what was happening (they may have indeed saw the patient dying and were traumatized and called out for help) AND so that the 1st responders would not know that they had children around the drugs. I do believe the fire fighters were disgusted to see what they described as "men in women's clothing". This may have caused them to come to a conclusion about what was going on with the children. I'm still curious why the children were there and how many people lived in the apartment.
Did the adults hide the drugs and sex toys before police came and cooperate fully with them? That is a possibility, which would change the scene significantly from when 1st responders got there. I also want to add that unsanitary conditions is subjective. (Don't you all jump on me). Some might see 2 bags of thrash waiting to be taken out and dirty dishes on the counter and dishes in the sink as extremely sanitary. Others might view extremely sanitary involving much more like old food and thrash out and all over the place, dirty fridge and rooms, etc.
It is very strange that the council representative said the initial reporters were worried about what would be done with the information they provided. That is telling. Something occurred between the 1st responders and cops once they got there. Just my opinion.
Hoping this post doesn't com e back to bite me as I'm about to read the remaining posts now.

 

[Ladyotm]

It was stated that the kids were taken due to unsanitary conditions in the apartment. Does that have anything to do with being in drag? Furthermore, an overdose doesn't have anything to do with what someone is wearing, right?

Would it be necessary to say what the men were wearing if they had been in jeans and flannel shirts?

This right here!!!!

 

[Ladyotm]

Maybe she wasn't there. Came in later. She says...they saw .... "They saw several transgender people, who are my friends, and one dead on the floor from cardiac arrest, they just assumed the worst..."

It's almost like she was not there initially and showed up. IMO.

 

[Ontario Mom]

It's almost like she was not there initially and showed up. IMO.

BFD being first on the scene, clearly stated all 6 adults in the apartment were men.
A woman or the mother of the children was never mentioned by them, so I have to conclude she wasn't actually there when the BFD were there.

jmo

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I wonder if the whole event is being downplayed to de-escalate the possibility of public vigilante activism, protests, direct action, violence, fulled by social media etc?

Clearly the basic story itself is bad enough - four minors under the age of 10 were removed from a home where there were many adults visiting of whom one had died seemingly due to using drugs. Maybe the kids have been taken for only a few days pending checks and they'll be returned or maybe there's a whole horror story sitting underneath this, how can we know unless there's court hearings and public notified documentation? JMO MOO

 

[Ladyotm]

I don't know what happened with all the "reports". What I do hope is that these children and their families get the support and services they need and that the children receive the appropriate placement.

 

[fred&edna]

Is it a reasonable assumption to believe the report that mentioned drugs, alcohol and sex toys... was written by transphobic individuals?? Is this because of the one mother's statement to the press or ?? Not an argument, just a question.

 

[MyBelle]

Is it a reasonable assumption to believe the report that mentioned drugs, alcohol and sex toys... was written by transphobic individuals?? Is this because of the one mother's statement to the press or ?? Not an argument, just a question.

BBM. I think that is a very reasonable assumption.

I do believe the "house of horrors" statement by the City Council member was in the media and that's why the mother responded spoke to the press. I so hope she and her family are relocated to a different address.

JMO

 

[Ontario Mom]

Is it a reasonable assumption to believe the report that mentioned drugs, alcohol and sex toys... was written by transphobic individuals?? Is this because of the one mother's statement to the press or ?? Not an argument, just a question.

I don't think it is, only because none of what was initially reported (that I've seen, anyway) had any sort of inflammatory or derogatory language with it. It was just "appeared to be men" or "a man with a wig" and also "dressed in drag". Although that last one I think was un-named reports to the Boston Herald, and maybe not the actual BFD report.

The BFD report was factually describing the people they saw there, and the items sitting around. If the man that appeared to be hiding the kids in the back bedroom was wearing a red hat or a purple t-shirt, instead of a wig, I'd expect the report to say that too, to ID the person that was in the room. I would guess the wig was mentioned because it may have struck the person that it was obviously a wig, and not his real hair. Just a speculation of course.

ETA: I really wish they'd release the report and any individual statements from every single first responder that stated they saw these things before BPD arrived, and found a much different scene.

jmo

 

[LaineyJ]

BBM. I think that is a very reasonable assumption.

I do believe the "house of horrors" statement by the City Council member was in the media and that's why the mother responded spoke to the press. I so hope she and her family are relocated to a different address.

JMO

Ime the housing authority will not relocate them. If there were in fact drugs in the home, she could lose her housing. I missed where it was stated that it was her apartment so just going off of some posts here saying it was.

There are few reasons the PHA will relocate you and this isn’t one of them. They often place you somewhere and that’s it. Where you go from there is on you, especially as projects like that generally offer project-based assistance, meaning the assistance is tied to the unit and not the tenant. You move, you lose it.

Now, dcf sometimes helps parents find stable housing, so not sure what may happen there, when the parents get their kids back. Still, she does have a place to live so not sure if that’s even an option.

imo.

 

[Ontario Mom]

BBM. I think that is a very reasonable assumption.

I do believe the "house of horrors" statement by the City Council member was in the media and that's why the mother responded spoke to the press. I so hope she and her family are relocated to a different address.

JMO

I'm genuinely curious. If you go back and read the first MSM I posted along with the this thread, can you point out what the language used was, that leads you to assume the BFD report was possibly written by a transphobic person? I've double and triple checked myself just to see if there was something I was missing, and I cannot find any kind of inflammatory or derogatory language used at all, by the BFD.

This is the link: Kids, ‘drugs, sex toys,’ dead man in South Boston apartment: ‘Sickening’

 

[nao]

Moo..narcan was not given..so I do not see overdose. My younger brother died of heart attack and yes he did drugs ...but it was a heart attack not OD...the drug taking had been the previous day. His body was just tired.
Someone was in medical distress, the children were being protected by removing them to another room that does not equal abuse.
How they could tell they were all men but trans or crossdressing is kinda interesting, many trans are really beautiful. Many women of color wear wigs. So why wigs an such were in report seems kinda strange.
I clean houses, hording and a messy house is really not a crime, or I would be out of work.
Drugs and sex toys strewn about.. show me pictures or I can give no opinion.
Just cause someone is trans or whatever does not equal sex crazy or pedophile.
It is a none story unless charges are laid....moo

 

[georgiajean]

In reading the original media reports on this topic, they were written in a way which made it difficult to discern who was saying what. Multiple references in the same paragraph to the BFD's initial report, "people who where there" and "someone told me" and city councilors' comments which were based on multiple sources. I read them multiple times, trying to figure out what was what. I failed. The BFD has said that there were comments that were complete fabrication, with 2nd and 3rd hand stories being passed on, and they stand by their report, which has not been released.
IMO, this was a version of the "telephone game" in which someone who may or may not have been there (or was a neighbor, or was in the hallway when the first responders arrived, or peeked in the door or....) spoke off record, with or without some embellishment/biases, and someone passed it on, adding their own biases and interpretations. The good news is the children are safe right now, and the authorities are reviewing all the facts to decide what is next.

 

[MyBelle]

I wonder if the whole event is being downplayed to de-escalate the possibility of public vigilante activism, protests, direct action, violence, fulled by social media etc?

Clearly the basic story itself is bad enough - four minors under the age of 10 were removed from a home where there were many adults visiting of whom one had died seemingly due to using drugs. Maybe the kids have been taken for only a few days pending checks and they'll be returned or maybe there's a whole horror story sitting underneath this, how can we know unless there's court hearings and public notified documentation? JMO MOO

I believe it is being downplayed because it didn't happen as it was sensationally and falsely reported by the crazy Boston Herald and a City Council member. Both the BPD and Mayor have said there were no sex toys, no drug paraphernalia "all over the place."

“There was hoarding, a lot of uncleanliness in the apartment, lots of sex toys, and drug paraphernalia all over the place,” city councilor Erin Murphy told @NBC10Boston

JMO

UPDATE: Police Refute Claims Of Drugs, Concerning Objects, At South Boston Home

Police have offered a correction for the often-reported idea that a South Boston apartment from which four children were removed was strewn with

dailyvoice.com

This messaging rejects many facts that news stories circulated about the incident.

The Boston Herald reported on Tuesday, June 19 that the home was "squalid" and filled with alcohol, drugs, and sex toys.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Is it a reasonable assumption to believe the report that mentioned drugs, alcohol and sex toys... was written by transphobic individuals?? Is this because of the one mother's statement to the press or ?? Not an argument, just a question.

I don't think it's reasonable to assume that *if* these issues were raised / documented it's from a phobic perspective. But it could be. We'd need to know more.

Maybe the first responders (*if* they said these things) were simply listing and documenting the reasons as to why they believed the very small children were unsafe - unsanitary, drugs and paraphernalia, adult sex toys in their immediate environment? Maybe they were doing their best to describe the people they interacted with - men who were all dressed in women's clothing... they never mentioned anything about gender or sexuality or what was going on in the apartment.

We have no idea what type of situation the adults were engaging in or why they were gathered in that apartment.

But the fire chief person said his employees word should not be doubted and that adds a bit of weight? JMO MOO