MA - Professor Karen Read, 43, charged with murdering police officer boyfriend John O'Keefe by hitting him with car, Canton, 14 Apr 2023 #11

[mrjitty]

Is it posible judge might have to dismiss the case after defense experts testify, depending on degree of contradiction, content and credibility? Am ignorant on laws salient to these issues, but would the judge have a choice between dismissal and a directed verdict of NG? Thanks and appreciated if you find time to offer any insights.

It's only my own wild speculation, and i guess it might depend on what rebuttal the prosecution offers - but as things stand I do wonder how we can expect a jury to resolve these questions?

I suspect the defence experts on the injuries, reconstruction and the telematics will poke a lot of holes.

IMO

 

[jepop]

It's only my own wild speculation, and i guess it might depend on what rebuttal the prosecution offers - but as things stand I do wonder how we can expect a jury to resolve these questions?

I suspect the defence experts on the injuries, reconstruction and the telematics will poke a lot of holes.

IMO

Inal, but I suppose it will come down to which experts the jury finds more credible ( if there ends up being no requirement under law for the judge to either dismiss the prosecution's case or for her to direct the jury in their verdict)? I guess if judge does not dismiss or direct a verdict it means post fbi expert testimony she would still find the cw presented a case with enough in it to bring to trial. I think one thing for sure: if this jury finds for guilty, the appealable issues in regard to the judge's decisions not to mention the prosecution's will be numerous. Moo

 

[jepop]

JMO but I don't think someone seeking legal advice of any sort should ever be used as evidence them in court. Ever! Whether they've been read miranda rights or it's related to the charge(s) they face.

100% agree and I find it abhorrent that Lally attempted to get that into evidence. Desperate. And noticed that he left it to his underling to argue the 'merits'/probative value. Yuck. Jmo

 

[k-mac]

If you're wanting to create an alibi why would you leave messages saying I hate you? Surely you'd "pretend" to be concerned or appear more neutral, even loving, as seen in many cases where perps lay it on thick.JMO.

The first thing she did was lash out at him in those voice mails.
Then the alibi building started.

Drunks roam between illogical....semi logical.....logical.

In no particular order.

As per KR that night.

+ toxic love/ relationship ending passion.

moo

 

[seekingjustice**]

The first thing she did was lash out at him in those voice mails.
Then the alibi building started.

Drunks roam between illogical....semi logical.....logical.

In no particular order.

As per KR that night.

+ toxic love/ relationship ending passion.

moo

Drunks also care less about the consequences of their actions... until they start to sober up!

It's quite evident from the voicemails and text messages that she was extremely angry, repeatedly calling him 55 times within about five hours. This translates to calling him approximately every 6 minutes for the duration.

 

[k-mac]

Drunks also care less about the consequences of their actions... until they start to sober up!

It's quite evident from the voicemails and text messages that she was extremely angry, repeatedly calling him 55 times within about five hours. This translates to calling him approximately every 6 minutes for the duration.

yeah that was her fury just in the day leading up to a alcohol fueled night. Pestering him incessantly.

The voice mails are the highest level of rage. ...like 10/10....within minutes of her leaving the Alberts.
IMO with John laying in the yard she drove off in a 'look what you made me do.' 'look what you made me do'...
Its all his fault. What she did to him.

 

[iusedtofloat]

Not to mention JMcC's deleted call or calls.

exactly...

as we saw on the stand -

who deleted calls and texts from their phone?
jenn (consciousness of guilt imo).

who had all the weird butt dials? lots of people involved did... but not karen.

who managed to supposedly trick such a company as cellbrite entirely with magical google searches that allegedly never happened at 2am? not karen!!

ho didn't recuse themself from an investigation due to conflict of interest after taking a sworn duty to serve and protect his community & state of massachussetts? Proctor, not Karen.

who had bruised & cut knuckles that just 'fell on some ice' and 'caught himself on his fists'? not karen!

who destroyed their phone on a military base? definitely not karen

who texted their friends misogynistic, awful, derogatory, ableist things about a woman they were supposed to treat fairly? again... not karen

last but not least...who had the audacity to make a disgusting comment about karen's butt while they were the one with a last name in the rectal family, for christ sake? you guessed it: not karen!
additionally:

some people say they think karen drinks too much. cool, so does every last person involved in this case... or is it ok when the men involved drink to excess but not karen?
people can hate on her for drunk driving - i hate that too. but guess what? pretty much everyone involved who drove that night, drove drunk. including police officers.
people can think her voicemails to john were out of line, but truthfully we don't know what their relationship or their fights were like, or how either of them acted when they were drinking - she sounds angry but still in love imo, just saying rotten things that they could've definitely worked through. which one of us hasn't said things out of anger that we later regret? and it appeared the two had been arguing often lately. doesnt mean they didnt adore eachother. karen felt betrayed by john on a few levels and sought validation from BH. she clearly wasnt serious about BH and was just being flirty and playing around. even if you think karen is some big hoe for that... where is the proof she killed john o'keefe?

if i were her i woulda been mad too!! bf stays out LATE late partying after we already had a night out, with people we don't know/feel comfortable with, and leaves ME to take care of his children... yeah, that's BS, especially if karen's characterization was right that she did so much for those kids and loved them to death. it wasn't out of line for her to vent to higgins that she didn't have kids of her own for a reason; that doesn't mean she loved the kids any less. at the end of the day those kids were jo's responsibility not kr's and she was probably pissed after watching jmc ogle her bf all night just for him to go back to party with jmc & crew instead of return home with the woman he loved.

i ask again... where is the proof that KR killed JOK.
my opinion? doesnt exist because there isnt any. that's why they had to make some

 

[iusedtofloat]

It was wintah and they don't play soccer in the snow.

but how much snow, if anything, was on the ground outside the house on Fairview, if any place? inquiring minds need to know!!

 

[seekingjustice**]

yeah that was her fury just in the day leading up to a alcohol fueled night. Pestering him incessantly.

The voice mails are the highest level of rage. ...like 10/10....within minutes of her leaving the Alberts.
IMO with John laying in the yard she drove off in a 'look what you made me do.' 'look what you made me do'...
Its all his fault. What she did to him.

Completely agree. She had and still has, no remorse. IMO.

The voicemails reveal her real nature as an abusive alcoholic, and labeling him a 'pervert' is revolting. It's heartbreaking for his family to endure this ordeal she's caused, shifting blame to SODDI instead of owning up to her actions. Also, with assistance, he may have survived. I hope the prosecution considers offering manslaughter charges as well to the Jury, as I feel the jury would likely convict on that basis. MOO

 

[iusedtofloat]

Who says he dumped her….link please. It was my understanding they were going to a party, and she decided to go home. She called in the middle of the night, her elderly parents 3 times. This is a 40 something year old woman, not a teenager who needs mommy. This conspiracy story is just that, a story. Did the police have tunnel vision after hearing the events of that night and finding pieces of tail light with John’s body…..seems so, but not without reason. Horrible investigation….absolutely but even with that, I still see evidence KR is responsible for John’s death. Im watching the same trial you are, this is just my opinion. Do I feel she will be convicted, probably not. Her attorneys have done very well with making witnesses feel very uncomfortable.

You cannot be serious MyJoey... How is it a conspiracy story if the feds are investigating and are the ones who found the exculpatory evidence in the commonwealth's case against Karen?

Yes, Proctor's text messages did indeed show tunnel vision on KR. His texts about KR were read aloud and we know now that he had known within 12 hours of the murder that he was going to nail KR for this.

What is the evidence that makes you think she's responsible? I feel we are watching two separate trials. All I have seen is evidence of collusion, coercion, and corruption amongst the Albert and McCabes.

 

[iusedtofloat]

It’s not even reasonable to call at those hours, she’s a grown woman. Not sure what to say about her responsibility, out drinking and driving.

what about trooper proctor, brian albert, and brian higgins drinking and driving? or is it only bad when karen does it? seems that's the way things go with a certain group who seems to reply with lots of subjective 'facts', no link attached, late into the night.

 

[iusedtofloat]

IMO
The voice messages KR left JO in that half hour period after she's left him for dead...

I effing hate you john!!
Your such a effing looser!
Your a pervert john!
You effing that other girl!



IMO those messages are 'look what you made you made do.'


All roads lead to Karen Read's unhinged rage as showcased in the very messages from that very hour.

moo

let's not forget karen is an educated woman. a professor. you think she'd kill her bf then leave him voicemails about how she did it? that alone doesn't make any sense. i dont feel as though you guys are paying close attention to the evidence and it is a bit frustrating to see certain posters railroad karen based on looks, facial expressions, vocabulary, and not wanting to be john's permanent little babysitter for life. can we base our opinions on if she did it or not on actual evidence instead of a gf, feeling lonely and ditched, leaving mad voicemails for her bf?

 

[weepingangel]

Proctor's conduct in Karen Read case may betray his training, exclusive documents show

Massachusetts State Police Trooper Michael Proctor was the lead investigator in the high-profile Karen Read murder trial and has been in the spotlight for his conduct and his handling of this high-profile case. The conduct revealed during Proctor’s testimony in the trial is another stain on the...

www.necn.com

 

[iusedtofloat]

Completely agree. She had and still has, no remorse. IMO.

The voicemails reveal her real nature as an abusive alcoholic, and labeling him a 'pervert' is revolting. It's heartbreaking for his family to endure this ordeal she's caused, shifting blame to SODDI instead of owning up to her actions. Also, with assistance, he may have survived. I hope the prosecution considers offering manslaughter charges as well to the Jury, as I feel the jury would likely convict on that basis. MOO

Where is your proof KR did it? Where is your proof, even, that she's an *abusive* *alcoholic*? She seemed to drink less than everyone else in the group....

 

[skyedaze]

So do you think she could have just bumped him and his drunk self tripped and stumbled into the fire hydrant hitting his head?
Then he's injured and too drunk to get himself up and out of the cold so he dies there?
If so, how does that explain a way all of the weirdness and cover up type activity from all of the other people?
Massive butt dials and butt deletes?
How does that explain the dog bite looking injuries and the random rehoming of the dog, house reno and move?
And how did no one see him lying there???
Even if she did hit him somehow, we still have a lot of holes and missing information.

ALL of those people were drunk as heck and driving around in a snowstorm.
smh!

So I said this last night.....and I take it back. It does not explain all of the weirdo behavior by the McCabes and Alberts..and Higgins and all of the other people.
JO was in that house....three flights of stairs on a fitness tracker....you can't explain away 3 flights....maybe one.
There was blood in that house in drinking cups. Excuse me but I have never had blood in any cups in my house let alone at a party.
JO's arm...hello...major dog bites. Anyone can see that and the Alberts had a major dog.
Why do JO have grass stains allover his pants....we know why.
Why is JM all over that house all of a sudden...she is cleaning up.
Maybe KR bumped him nut she didn't kill him....where is all of the blood?
Why throw away multiple phones?..on the same day.
Why be so shady if you didn't do anything wrong?
Why the heck would JO even want to go to that house?

 

[seekingjustice**]

Where is your proof KR did it? Where is your proof, even, that she's an *abusive* *alcoholic*? She seemed to drink less than everyone else in the group....

Verbal abuse includes name calling, just have a listen to her voicemails if you're in doubt about her abusive behaviour. All the evidence has pointed to KR IMO.

 

[Sachi]

THAT comment was a stunner. Is she the one that said he did not die from being in a fight: sounds like it. It was awful to hear someone in her position to be so absurd, what is her reference then? How would the person look? Like John with eye area like it was and being possibly BASHED from behind like thousands of people who are killed that way >

I keep thinking about the "bite and scratch" look of the injuries and no dog DNA. I remember years ago, a big case and a lot of DNA and my sister in law (DNA scientist) replying," it's DNA" it puts a person there exactly. She tried to help us understand how specific and exacting, narrowing to few to none from millions and billions - DNA evidence is specific not "maybe". Where is the dog saliva? where is the yeast/bacteria from under the nail of a GSD -if the scratches are from a GSD , where is the hair too. Never had a GSD that did not legit.. rain hair in flight or flight, stress or anxiety MOO

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

It means Jenn is a little off with her times

Yeah well someone's on trial for murder so I think it's pretty important we get the times right. I guess some people don't care because they had already made their minds up before this trial and ignore glaring evidence.

 

[jepop]

.

I keep thinking about the "bite and scratch" look of the injuries and no dog DNA. I remember years ago, a big case and a lot of DNA and my sister in law (DNA scientist) replying," it's DNA" it puts a person there exactly. She tried to help us understand how specific and exacting, narrowing to few to none from millions and billions - DNA evidence is specific not "maybe". Where is the dog saliva? where is the yeast/bacteria from under the nail of a GSD -if the scratches are from a GSD , where is the hair too. Never had a GSD that did not legit.. rain hair in flight or flight, stress or anxiety MOO

You do realise no one analysed the arm wounds for dog dna or took swabs for that purpose? Or compared the wounds with, Idk. molds or something(?) of Chloe's teeth and claws right? Because of Proctor's tunnel vision right? Moo

Defense will certainly be asking the ME/autopsy person why she never took swabs of the bite and scratch like wounds for sending off to the dna animal specialist. Or if it turns out she did take swabs, then the jury can wonder why LE did not have them analysed by the animal dna specialist. Defense will also no doubt shed some light on why the ME did not ask or was not requested by LE to compare Chloe's bite and or teeth and Chloe's claws with the wounds. moo

As for hair on the shirt. I don't recall lab techs even looking for any because tunnel vision, notwithstanding the numerous contamination instances JO's clothing was subjected to (ambulance and hospital floor for eg, exposure on lawn, exposure to others during resuscitation efforts, moving JO from lawn to ambulance etc etc). Also I do not recall testimony by lab or anyone else about general propensity for shedding of a german shepherd in winter (when they need their coat yes?) and how much hair transfer might be expected during an episode of scratching and possible biting. Do you? No, because there wasn't any cos tunnel vision of Proctor. Moo

EBM replaced Jackson with Defense

 

[Elliot_Alderson]

Karen Read trial live updates: GPS data shows O’Keefe never entered the house

Testimony resumed in the Karen Read trial on Thursday. Follow the latest updates here.

www.masslive.com

1:10, 4:40 and 4:42 am….
You don’t call your parents in the middle of the night? Her action speak volumes!

Do you know her relationships with her parents and when/how often she calls them? How do you know she doesn't call her parents at those times normally?