MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #7 *Arrest*

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Again, regarding the possibility of two locations, I'm choosing to defer to the website that was set up and is maintained by Vanessa's family. I am sure that one or more of her adoring family members selected the content for the informational parts of the site, as well as provided images and details about her character and accomplishments. I cannot imagine any reason why inaccurate information passed on by MSM would have been selected for Vanessa's site. They are not looking just to honor and remember her there, but IMO to share legitimate information to stimulate tips and counter any inaccuracies in the media.
The site has always, and continues to say, that Vanessa was "killed in the woods." That's good enough for me to push aside any theories about there being two sites.

As I was browsing around tonight, I TRIED (it was a fruitless attempt) to put myself in their shoes because how they are coping is beyond anything I can imagine. It appears that there is a team of committed family members who I'm sure are leaning on one other. It also appears that there is multi-community support for the family and some kind of faith/spiritual backbone. That's one nice thing about small towns -- people rally for "their own" whether they know the family directly or not.
But, still someone took away their baby in the worst way possible, and how to navigate forward without someone as least being found accountable yet is ....well, I don't have a word for it.
Anyhow. I think about her every day and will continue searching for any updates.

I understand completely and that could be exactly how it is. Also, I am in no way discounting her family. In more detail, I was just pointing out there hasn't been much media coverage on this from the beginning, so a media report saying it would be prior to the police investigation of the scene being complete and Law enforcement has not stated that, only media worded it that way, because as we know she was found there. I don't want to offend anyone. I have continually brought up the fact that much of what is discussed here is 'speculation' because there are so few facts and evidence known. It is impossible to be 'certain' about much.

I can only imagine how hard this is for her family and you are right , it appears there is multi-community support and some kind of faith/spiritual backbone. There are also continual prayers for them elsewhere too. This must be solved.
 
That is true. However it seems there could be more done in the area and one would think there would be much to put together with the crime scene investigation and over 1,000 tips. Then there was also news of doing advanced testing with the DNA for a facial. It would seem there should be a rush on that, with this situation as it is.

I agree and share your frustration, Kickoff. I realize that LE needs to sometimes play things close to the vest, but...

We we all hope for justice for Vanessa and her family, of course, but this situation goes beyond Vanessa. There is an extremely big public safety risk (for women, especially), assuming the perp is not deceased or in jail. Anyone who would commit such a atrocious murder in broad daylight in a nice area and not that far from a residential driveway is extremely dangerous. There is no way, IMO, that this will be the only horrible crime (or last, if he's committed them in the past) that he commits for the rest of his life.

My issue with LE is that I think they should at least let the public know their current thinking on the matter of Vanessa being targeted vs. this being a random thing/crime of opportunity. LE has only addressed this once -- the first press conf the day after the crime. As would be expected that early on, they said they didn't know if she was targeted or not. But, the public has a right to know their current thinking, IMO. It might still be the same, but they also might be leaning more in one direction or the other now. This info would probably make a difference to some women in deciding what *degree* of caution they should take.

The other things I want to know:

2. What's the status of the DNA phenotyping (using a company to outline some of the perp's *likely* physical traits based on his DNA): Has it been done? If not, why not?

Granted, some traits that are found to be likely can be changed, such as hair color. But something like eye color can not be changed w/o colored contact lenses, (Supposedly, this advanced DNA testing can predict eye color with a high degree of likelihood -- I looked into this.) And, voila, if the testing determined he likely has blue eyes, a recessive trait found in the minority of people, this could even be more helpful.

3. Are you considering using familiar (DNA) searching? If not, why not?

This seems like the biggest no-brainer to me. I'm familiar with the downsides, but they can be controlled with proper procedures in place.

In my mind, this testing would be extremely helpful. This isn't a transient area -- like, say, some parts of Florida, where most people are from somewhere else. So many people probably grew up in the same general region and have close blood relatives also in the region.

4. Are you maintaining as close a grip as possible on the real estate transactions/rental turnovers in at least the 5-town area?

Rental turnovers would not be nearly as easy to monitor as home sales, unfortunately, but a big effort should be put into this angle, IMO. I am with Mainely and DeDee in believing this guy might try to move at some point relatively soon even if he has roots in the area. If he lives in Princeton itself -- which I tend not to think is the case, but certainly could be -- he'd likely need to wait longer to move, so as to not draw any necessary attention to himself.

ALL DNA tools available should be used to help solve this crime. They can only help when used correctly -- which means keeping in mind their limitations.

Heck, Vanessa worked for Google. Google has an investment in genetic testing company, 23andMe, founded by the ex-wife of one of the Google founder's. To my knowledge, this co. does not do the two types of advanced testing to which I referred. However, I can't imagine that Google would not share their likely more advanced knowledge if asked.

My comments are for use on this site only. They may not be used anywhere else. Thank you.

 
I agree and share your frustration, Kickoff. I realize that LE needs to sometimes play things close to the vest, but...

We we all hope for justice for Vanessa and her family, of course, but this situation goes beyond Vanessa -- there is an extremely big public safety risk (for women, especially), assuming the perp is not deceased or in jail. Anyone who would commit such a horrendous murder in broad daylight in a nice area and not that far from a residential driveway is extremely dangerous. There is no way, IMO, that this will be the only horrible crime (or last, if he's committed them in the past) that he commits for the rest of his life.

My issue with LE is that I think they should at least let the public know their current thinking on the matter of Vanessa being targeted vs. this being a random thing/crime of opportunity. LE has only addressed this once -- the first press conf the day after the crime. As would be expected that early on, they said they didn't know if she was targeted or not. But, the public has a right to know their current thinking, IMO. It might still be the same, but they also might be leaning more in one direction or the other now. This info would probably make a difference to some women in deciding what *degree* of caution they should take.

The other things I want to know:

2. What's the status of the DNA phenotyping (using a company to outline some of the perp's *likely* physical traits based on his DNA): Has it been done? If not, why not?

Granted, some traits that are found to be likely can be changed, such as hair color. But something like eye color can not be changed w/o colored contact lenses, (Supposedly, this advanced DNA testing can predict eye color with a high degree of likelihood -- I looked into this.) And, voila, if the testing determined he likely has blue eyes, a recessive trait found in the minority of people, this could even be more helpful.

3. Are you considering using familiar (DNA) searching? If not, why not?

This seems like the biggest no-brainer to me. I'm familiar with the downsides, but they can be controlled with proper procedures in place.

In my mind, this testing would be extremely helpful. This is a very stable region -- unlike, say, some parts of Florida,where most people are from somewhere else. So many people probably grew up in the same general region and have close blood relatives also in the region.

4. Are you maintaining as close a handle as possible on the real estate transactions/rental turnovers in at least the 5-town area?

Rental turnovers would not be nearly as easy to monitor as home sales, unfortunately, but a big effort should be put into this angle, IMO. I am with Mainely and DeDee in believing this guy might try to move at some point relatively soon even if he has roots in the area. If he lives in Princeton itself -- which I tend not to think is the case, but certainly could be -- he'd likely need to wait longer to move, so as to not draw any necessary attention to himself.

ALL DNA tools available should be used to help solve this horrendous crime. They can only help when used correctly -- which means keeping in mind their limitations.

Heck, Vanessa worked for Google. Google has an investment in genetic testing company, 23andMe, founded by the ex-wife of one of the Google founder's. To my knowledge, this company does not do the two types of advanced testing to which I referred. However, I can't imagine that Google would not share their likely more advanced knowledge if asked.

My comments are for use on this site only. They may not be used anywhere else. Thank you.


Excellent Post Searunner.
 
Why else would a male take a fighting, kicking screaming young lady off into the woods if not to

1) rape her
2) torture her
3) kill her
4) all of the above

I vote for all of the above. UnSub had means and opportunity.

We are not sure of the order of the burning or if it occurred at the same time when she was alive or not. The UnSub was carrying whatever tools he needed perhaps including, but not limited to, rope and an implement to use as a long-flame lighter but not hauling a jug of gasoline.

This young lady had a bi-monthly routine of visiting her family and jogging on Sunday afternoons. That routine gave one certain someone an opportunity to plan to do bad things and carry out the vicious ambush against VM.

If it weren't for her regular routine, I may be inclined to go with the happenstance of wrong time, wrong place. Otherwise, it was in his corrupted thinking that he knew her, chose her specifically and wanted to do her harm. I do believe VMs petite frame made her appear weak to the opposite sex who was out to get her.

I am beginning to believe this person is living with their wealthy parents or in an apartment paid by his parents. They know he is dangerous. He terrified them in his youth with his minor acts of violence. Perhaps he has refused required psychiatric medication.

Possibly a young man around the age of 24. He's been admitted to rehab since the incident. He holds a permanent grudge against women for ill-conceived wrongdoings.

** Thoughts and musings only, for I don't know who brought death to this young lady.
I agree with everything you posted, with the exception of a few things.
If this guy is a sexual sadist, sometimes they enjoy strong women, because they enjoy the fight and overpowering.
I don't think this guy had any tools at all, nor was the site prepared.
A simple Bic lighter that he can have in his pocket.
No rope, just shoe laces or his belt, if he bound her.
I'll say she was dead before he burned her for three reasons.
1)I think the screams would have been heard, (although she may have been gagged)
2)If she was strangled, after she was killed, the contact with her burnt skin with his hands would have left DNA defeating the reason for destroying the evidence.
3) It would have taken longer in the woods if he set the fire, burned her, then killer her, as opposed to killing her, setting the fire, and leaving.

Not sure about the rehab. He may be feeling pretty good about himself right now, knowing that so far, he has got away with this.
He may be sticking around just to taunt the cops at a later date, by trying this again.
 
The way this is going, I don't see this as a younger person with more obvious signs of trouble. It appears more like someone with much more experience, older than her, with a normal appearance lifestyle that hides the underlying issues. Therefore harder to detect. Someone people would last suspect. Intelligent, calculating, much experience under belt.
 
Why else would a male take a fighting, kicking screaming young lady off into the woods if not to

1) rape her
2) torture her
3) kill her
4) all of the above

I vote for all of the above. UnSub had means and opportunity.

We are not sure of the order of the burning or if it occurred at the same time when she was alive or not. The UnSub was carrying whatever tools he needed perhaps including, but not limited to, rope and an implement to use as a long-flame lighter but not hauling a jug of gasoline.

This young lady had a bi-monthly routine of visiting her family and jogging on Sunday afternoons. That routine gave one certain someone an opportunity to plan to do bad things and carry out the vicious ambush against VM.

If it weren't for her regular routine, I may be inclined to go with the happenstance of wrong time, wrong place. Otherwise, it was in his corrupted thinking that he knew her, chose her specifically and wanted to do her harm. I do believe VMs petite frame made her appear weak to the opposite sex who was out to get her.

I am beginning to believe this person is living with their wealthy parents or in an apartment paid by his parents. They know he is dangerous. He terrified them in his youth with his minor acts of violence. Perhaps he has refused required psychiatric medication.

Possibly a young man around the age of 24. He's been admitted to rehab since the incident. He holds a permanent grudge against women for ill-conceived wrongdoings.

** Thoughts and musings only, for I don't know who brought death to this young lady.

I think I like that profile - especially someone living with their parents. Not sure if census results are publicly available, but if the UnSub does indeed live within a 10 mile radius of the scene, it would be pretty easy to identify those over 20 years old residing in their parents house.

Separately, FWIW, I spoke with a detective because I called in that VM FB page created in December. It is discouraging he followed up as it tells me they are grasping for straws. :(
 
142 males lived in Princeton between ages of 14-19 in 2010 Census. Assume 40% of those now 21-26 live at home still based on this article:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/percent...with-parents-rises-to-75-year-high-1482316203

So a spitball estimate like this could be applied to any town in the area. Could merge this dataset with a DMV dataset to cross reference for SUV owners. Filter more based on criminal record, etc etc.
 
Excellent Post Searunner.

I, indeed, agree that it was wonderful. Searunner's questions are valid.

If the UnSub has no prior arrest, the DNA does not help us until there is a confession or he is arrested in the future. A jury would not convict on only a positive DNA ID finding for guilt. Don't get me wrong. DNA is strong and getting stronger.

Right now, male DNA is about all we have on this killer. There are no surveillance cameras that we are aware of capturing a POI. There are no eyewitnesses to the crime. There is no description of the suspect. There may be a dark SUV involved.

If the DNA say, under her fingernails was burned, it is a chance, depending on the severity, they could determine his mother's lineage [mtDNA]. My fear is the DNA is degraded due to the burning and all the DNA would give up is the gender.

The simple Y-STR [DNA] testing reveals gender for males. I pray authorities have more of a DNA profile than that.
http://www.forensicdnacenter.com/dna-ystr.html

I looked into obtaining documents, such as, search warrants in this case. There is a fee charged that depends on the type doc and how many pages, etc. A fee must be paid just to conduct the search, too. Does anyone know how to circumvent that system. Is there a newscaster to contact who might obtain them via the FIA?
 
I, indeed, agree that it was wonderful. Searunner's questions are valid.

If the UnSub has no prior arrest, the DNA does not help us until there is a confession or he is arrested in the future. A jury would not convict on only a positive DNA ID finding for guilt. Don't get me wrong. DNA is strong and getting stronger.

Right now, male DNA is about all we have on this killer. There are no surveillance cameras that we are aware of capturing a POI. There are no eyewitnesses to the crime. There is no description of the suspect. There may be a dark SUV involved.

If the DNA say, under her fingernails was burned, it is a chance, depending on the severity, they could determine his mother's lineage [mtDNA]. My fear is the DNA is degraded due to the burning and all the DNA would give up is the gender.

The simple Y-STR [DNA] testing reveals gender for males. I pray authorities have more of a DNA profile than that.
http://www.forensicdnacenter.com/dna-ystr.html

I looked into obtaining documents, such as, search warrants in this case. There is a fee charged that depends on the type doc and how many pages, etc. A fee must be paid just to conduct the search, too. Does anyone know how to circumvent that system. Is there a newscaster to contact who might obtain them via the FIA?
As far as a jury convicting with DNA only, I think that depends where they find it. If it's vaginally, that just proves he had sex with her. If it's on her throat, and she was strangled, that may be different.
Although I am convinced that LE has DNA, I am not 100 percent convinced. LE has said it's a male. I have never thought otherwise from day one. Law of average tells me that, but there are other ways as I have mentioned way back that could determine it was a male. What if he dropped his ring? What if he dropped a cigar? I am not saying that happened, but it would narrow it down. I know some have put two and two together saying they are doing Facial DNA, and that means they have his DNA, and I agree. If that is the case. When I see a Facial Profile, that will convince me 100 percent. Could it have been a bluff?
For conversation sake, I'll post like they have his DNA, but again LE never said they did.
Just a thought.
As far as a newcaster goes, I think Bob Ward from Fox News Boston would be my choice. To me, he seems more interested than the rest. He also has a facebook page, so it would be easy to request it.
The only way I see a warrant being issued, is if they have very little doubt they have their man. Example, they took his DNA from a coffee cup etc, and matched it, and now they are doing it to build the case against him.
From what I gather, the DNA dragnet, is on a voluntary basis.
 
I wonder if he was trying to burn any possible finger prints off her neck
 
As far as a jury convicting with DNA only, I think that depends where they find it. If it's vaginally, that just proves he had sex with her. If it's on her throat, and she was strangled, that may be different.
Although I am convinced that LE has DNA, I am not 100 percent convinced. LE has said it's a male. I have never thought otherwise from day one. Law of average tells me that, but there are other ways as I have mentioned way back that could determine it was a male. What if he dropped his ring? What if he dropped a cigar? I am not saying that happened, but it would narrow it down. I know some have put two and two together saying they are doing Facial DNA, and that means they have his DNA, and I agree. If that is the case. When I see a Facial Profile, that will convince me 100 percent. Could it have been a bluff?
For conversation sake, I'll post like they have his DNA, but again LE never said they did.
Just a thought.
As far as a newcaster goes, I think Bob Ward from Fox News Boston would be my choice. To me, he seems more interested than the rest. He also has a facebook page, so it would be easy to request it.
The only way I see a warrant being issued, is if they have very little doubt they have their man. Example, they took his DNA from a coffee cup etc, and matched it, and now they are doing it to build the case against him.
From what I gather, the DNA dragnet, is on a voluntary basis.

I would assume if they are doing the voluntary DNA dragnet, they have DNA from the scene to try to match with the samples taken.
 
142 males lived in Princeton between ages of 14-19 in 2010 Census. Assume 40% of those now 21-26 live at home still based on this article:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/percent...with-parents-rises-to-75-year-high-1482316203

So a spitball estimate like this could be applied to any town in the area. Could merge this dataset with a DMV dataset to cross reference for SUV owners. Filter more based on criminal record, etc etc.

Very nice, Cem! Hoping LE is using this same thought process.

I recall one of your early posts mentioned big data -- and I agree that data analytics has tons of potential for helping solve crimes.

I hope you'll continue to follow along and post when you have something to add. You bring a lot to the table.
 
As far as a jury convicting with DNA only, I think that depends where they find it. If it's vaginally, that just proves he had sex with her. If it's on her throat, and she was strangled, that may be different.
Although I am convinced that LE has DNA, I am not 100 percent convinced. LE has said it's a male. I have never thought otherwise from day one. Law of average tells me that, but there are other ways as I have mentioned way back that could determine it was a male. What if he dropped his ring? What if he dropped a cigar? I am not saying that happened, but it would narrow it down. I know some have put two and two together saying they are doing Facial DNA, and that means they have his DNA, and I agree. If that is the case. When I see a Facial Profile, that will convince me 100 percent. Could it have been a bluff?
For conversation sake, I'll post like they have his DNA, but again LE never said they did.
Just a thought.
As far as a newcaster goes, I think Bob Ward from Fox News Boston would be my choice. To me, he seems more interested than the rest. He also has a facebook page, so it would be easy to request it.
The only way I see a warrant being issued, is if they have very little doubt they have their man. Example, they took his DNA from a coffee cup etc, and matched it, and now they are doing it to build the case against him.
From what I gather, the DNA dragnet, is on a voluntary basis.

I'm so very confused. We KNOW they have DNA. 2 extremely solid and obvious reasons. 1- it was reported that they are performing or looking to perform DNA phenotyping. That CANT be done WITHOUT DNA.
2- a DNA drag net which you and many others continually reference on here, would be COMPLETELY USELESS without a comparitve sample.

I'm desperate for progress here. To move forward we have to accept some of these facts and press on.
 
Did someone mention there was some kind of town gathering or service that same weekend? If so please provide more info. Thanks
 
When stating that UnSub could not be convicted on DNA alone, it meant that if the UnSub was in Siberia at the TOD then LE has more work to do. Prosecutors must be able to place the killer with the means and the opportunity to commit the crime against VM in the woods at the CS at TOD.

Releasing the dark SUV data should have been alarming news for the UnSub.

Not to belabor the point but we have the male UnSub's DNA so I appreciate going forward that is placed in context. The new DNA technology is going to provide us with the UnSub's sketch that we are currently lacking. LE tested a male member of the community by buccal swab. They did that b/c they have something, the UnSub's DNA, to compare and contrast to Mr. Socks' DNA.

With Video Report http://whdh.com/investigations/cher...logy-to-give-vanessa-marcottes-killer-a-face/

Can we all agree that the investigators do have the vile perpetrator's DNA?
 
This talented and beloved young lady was murdered in the woods when she was Taken and killed heinously and without regard to the lovely gift that was Vanessa.

LE did not even search her NYC apartment. That should tell us something about where their investigation is leading them.

LE wants in her business so they can find out her contacts. They want to look at the data on her phone. If LE wants to look at any of her social media, they'll need warrants signed by a judge, issued and marked received. If LE wants to know who she may have sent DMs to on Twitter, get a warrant. For obtaining her PMs on FB, get a warrant. They need a warrant for the cell tower pings. I want to read the warrants. They should be open to the public or provisions stating why not.

Thank you for this, Rocky.
As far as a newcaster goes, I think Bob Ward from Fox News Boston would be my choice. To me, he seems more interested than the rest. He also has a facebook page, so it would be easy to request it.
 
When stating that UnSub could not be convicted on DNA alone, it meant that if the UnSub was in Siberia at the TOD then LE has more work to do. Prosecutors must be able to place the killer with the means and the opportunity to commit the crime against VM in the woods at the CS at TOD.

Releasing the dark SUV data should have been alarming news for the UnSub.

Not to belabor the point but we have the male UnSub's DNA so I appreciate going forward that is placed in context. The new DNA technology is going to provide us with the UnSub's sketch that we are currently lacking. LE tested a male member of the community by buccal swab. They did that b/c they have something, the UnSub's DNA, to compare and contrast to Mr. Socks' DNA.

With Video Report http://whdh.com/investigations/cher...logy-to-give-vanessa-marcottes-killer-a-face/

Can we all agree that the investigators do have the vile perpetrator's DNA?
You are welcome for the info on Bob Ward. Thanks for the link DeDee.
I forgot that having her DNA was mentioned as a definite in that news article. I think that was the only article that mentioned it specificly. Combined with the other happenings and the date of the article being only two months old, I am convinced they have it.
Maybe the facial profiling takes more time than a few months.
Did you read someplace that they never searched her apt. in NY?
 
I'm so very confused. We KNOW they have DNA. 2 extremely solid and obvious reasons. 1- it was reported that they are performing or looking to perform DNA phenotyping. That CANT be done WITHOUT DNA.
2- a DNA drag net which you and many others continually reference on here, would be COMPLETELY USELESS without a comparitve sample.

I'm desperate for progress here. To move forward we have to accept some of these facts and press on.
I agree FM.
DeDee posted the link that states they do have his DNA. I had forgot about MSM reporting it in black and white.
Again, I had little doubt, But LE does bluff from time to time.
Have you put a chain of events together yet, or are you still thinking about it?
Any progress?
 
Hi there DeDee!

Two things -

1. How do you know about her apt in NYC? Whereabouts in NYC did she live by the way, if you know? Just curious.

2. Also, I am a shark fiend. Your avatar is amazing. Where was this taken??

Thanks!
 
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