MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 Aug 2016 #7 *Arrest*

[Kickoff61]

Yes, I think he seems normal and well educated as well. I base that on the fact that he's not in the system. He's very tactful.


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Yes, that makes sense. Intelligent, tactful , calculating.

 

[Kickoff61]

When you think about it, also...he could have been very caught off guard by her fighting him as LE describes, possibly far more than expected and was still able to continue with a quick planned cover up process (still in daylight) without being seen. Quick acting.

 

[Kickoff61]

If he has money, maybe he travels too, for work or leisure trips as well and could be out of the immediate area easily. Coming and going perhaps.

 

[Sheila Terranova]

Just to be the devil's advocate, it may be unlikely that he is from away,but it's not impossible. I have driven across country many times and either deliberately or accidentally ended up as far as a hundred miles ( long story involving a detour at midnight in a rain storm off of route 40)from the road . ( detours , lost, curious ,looking for cute towns, homemade food.)I agree it is a long shot...but if he saw an opportunity he might have felt confident no one would suspect him since he had no ties to the area and pounced feeling sure he'd never get caught . Jmo. ( I don't want to rule out the highly unlikely in case it's improbable but true)

 

[Kickoff61]

Just to be the devil's advocate, it may be unlikely that he is from away,but it's not impossible. I have driven across country many times and either deliberately or accidentally ended up as far as a hundred miles ( long story involving a detour at midnight in a rain storm off of route 40)from the road . ( detours , lost, curious ,looking for cute towns, homemade food.)I agree it is a long shot...but if he saw an opportunity he might have felt confident no one would suspect him since he had no ties to the area and pounced feeling sure he'd never get caught . Jmo. ( I don't want to rule out the highly unlikely in case it's improbable but true)

Correct, we don't have enough facts. However, it seems unlikely he would stay around, take the risk to do the fire to try to get rid of DNA, if he is not in the system and from somewhere else out of state, outside of their local DNA dragnet area, and highly unlikely to be found due to those reasons.

 

[Kickoff61]

The crime was brazen enough in broad daylight, by someone appearing to be over confident and it says even more for the person to take more risk with going further... doing the fire (especially when not in the system). It seems the only reasonable explanation would be due to being close by in the town with any fear of the DNA connection being made. As it was mentioned in here before, it would be legitimate concern for him , knowing now, they have in fact done some sort of voluntary DNA dragnet in the area.

 

[msphilosopher]

If he has money, maybe he travels too, for work or leisure trips as well and could be out of the immediate area easily. Coming and going perhaps.

Agreed. However I think he's based in NYC.


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[searunner]

For those newish on the thread, the possible connection between Vanessa's case and Karina's was talked about considerably early on. Majority opinion among those of us who have been following since early on (or, like FM, who joined a bit later on, but read through all the post to catch up) is that same perp is not behind the two cases.

LE has DNA in both cases. LE has not come right out and definitively said the DNA in the two cases does not match. However, the majority of us (myself included) strongly believe that LE would say if the DNA *did* match because it would be irresponsible for them not to warn the public that a serial killer apparently is on the loose.

The logistical difficulties associated w/ the perp being from NYC have been discussed in some detail. Further, LE has said that they believe the perp is familiar with the broad area (where Vanessa was killed).

The similarities between the two cases are overstated, IMO. Granted, both were runners, but this is an activity that women often do alone, meaning it presents an ideal opportunity for predators. The fact that they were both petite isn't a big deal -- most runners are slender -- and shorter women are preyed upon more often simply because they are looked upon as being easier prey. And the brunette connection -- it's the law of averages -- there are more brunettes than blondes, etc. And the similar ages doesn't mean there is a link either -- more younger women than older women run, plus younger women are more often the targets of rapists in general.

 

[Rick_Deckard_BR]

Good point I'm going to check and see if I can find who owns that property.
Using a picture from this article http://www.telegram.com/news/201608...alls-plead-for-more-tips-in-princeton-slaying
I did street view on google and found the crime scene. Pretty lonely stretch of road. There is a house further back behind the wooded area where VM was killed. I wonder who lives there and what LE thinks/thought of residents.

 

[Rick_Deckard_BR]

Some screen shots of google maps street view.













image hosting without registration

 

[Rick_Deckard_BR]

I don't think they are linked either. Sadly it's just really not safe for a person to be out running alone. Especially in areas that aren't heavil trafficked. It's an unfortunate coincidence I believe.

 

[msphilosopher]

For those newish on the thread, the possible connection between Vanessa's case and Karina's was talked about considerably early on. Majority opinion among those of us who have been following since early on (or, like FM, who joined a bit later on, but read through all the post to catch up) is that same perp is not behind the two cases.

LE has DNA in both cases. LE has not come right out and definitively said the DNA in the two cases does not match. However, the majority of us (myself included) strongly believe that LE would say if the DNA *did* match because it would be irresponsible for them not to warn the public that a serial killer apparently is on the loose.

The logistical difficulties associated w/ the perp being from NYC have been discussed in some detail. Further, LE has said that they believe the perp is familiar with the broad area (where Vanessa was killed).

The similarities between the two cases are overstated, IMO. Granted, both were runners, but this is an activity that women often do alone, meaning it presents an ideal opportunity for predators. The fact that they were both petite isn't a big deal -- most runners are slender -- and shorter women are preyed upon more often simply because they are looked upon as being easier prey. And the brunette connection -- it's the law of averages -- there are more brunettes than blondes, etc. And the similar ages doesn't mean there is a link either -- more younger women than older women run, plus younger women are more often the targets of rapists in general.

Spent several hours reading previous threads, a lot has been discussed with intriguing insights. Unfortunately, I cannot read every post, I just don't have the time. A few thoughts...

1. A majority sentiment on the thread doesn't mean it's right or that the opposing view can't be discussed.
2. If the DNA did match, IMO there's more of a reason to not disclose that information than if they didn't match.
3. You don't need to live in an area to be familiar with the area. There are logistical difficulties absolutely! But I'm not convinced that would stop a psycho who could have an obsession / fascination with VM.
4. IMO similarities are not overstated. Runners come in all different shapes and sizes even though they are all runners. Especially in looks: hair color, hair type, eyes, facial features, skin tone, distinguishing features, etc.. And then you have the same MO in pretty close proximity against two women living in NYC.

It's very likely these are two unrelated cases, because unfortunately it's very easy to target female runners and get away with it. These cases are only two of thousands of crimes committed against female joggers over the years. However, IMO the similarities shouldn't be denied or ignored especially when LE hasn't confirmed them as separate incidents.

All JMO.

 

[Kickoff61]

I do agree that all views can be discussed. There is no certainty without facts and/or evidence confirmed. This particular case lacks an extraordinary amount of factual information known which truly makes it impossible to be certain about much. Hopefully they will inform the public of more in this case soon.

 

[Evey]

Spent several hours reading previous threads, a lot has been discussed with intriguing insights. Unfortunately, I cannot read every post, I just don't have the time. A few thoughts...

1. A majority sentiment on the thread doesn't mean it's right or that the opposing view can't be discussed.
2. If the DNA did match, IMO there's more of a reason to not disclose that information than if they didn't match.
3. You don't need to live in an area to be familiar with the area. There are logistical difficulties absolutely! But I'm not convinced that would stop a psycho who could have an obsession / fascination with VM.
4. IMO similarities are not overstated. Runners come in all different shapes and sizes even though they are all runners. Especially in looks: hair color, hair type, eyes, facial features, skin tone, distinguishing features, etc.. And then you have the same MO in pretty close proximity against two women living in NYC.

It's very likely these are two unrelated cases, because unfortunately it's very easy to target female runners and get away with it. These cases are only two of thousands of crimes committed against female joggers over the years. However, IMO the similarities shouldn't be denied or ignored especially when LE hasn't confirmed them as separate incidents.

All JMO.

I agree and notice people trying to tell anyone who tries to say they could be or mentions the idea that they're wrong. I myself believe it's the same person because of all the things in common but especially because they haven't disclosed the DNA matching to me that says a lot and maybe they wouldn't want the killer knowing they know. The girls look like sisters and were killed so close to their parents home that it feels like an evolving killer to me. But I'm open to all possibilities

 

[Evey]

I do agree that all views can be discussed. There is no certainty without facts and/or evidence confirmed. This particular case lacks an extraordinary amount of factual information known which truly makes it impossible to be certain about much. Hopefully they will inform the public of more in this case soon.

The way they keep it hush hush and FBI being involved make me think even more so that it's the same guy. It's weird that at first they said raped and strangled but then it's like they want to not mention it almost in hopes media doesn't cause a panic but maybe they also need a third before they say serial killer. But whatever the case I dont think it's his first or even second time.

 

[Mainely16]

I knew I had something credible speaking to whether these cases are related. I thought we took this matter off the table a few months ago, so I let this quote go. Other then when Vanessa was first found, I haven't thought they were related. I had assumed if there were a DNA match, the police would share that information. It's important, I would think, to open fresh avenues to the public, especially in regard to his location/s on both days, and his ability and willingness to travel. That would also open new windows to how he picks his victims, what both women may have had in common, etc that would include this man. For the sake of protection, I would hope cops would release this.

If they did have a match between both men, why do you think they would want to keep that info from the public? What would they gain? That is an interesting thought, and what I have learned on WS is that I really know...so little.

Anyhow, other than Mr. Vetrano saying in an interview, "These cases are absolutely unrelated," I found this quote from NYPD deputy police. I think it's the best we have right now, though I will look around more.

Police are still searching for suspects in all three unconnected murders. “There are some similarities — female, jogger. There are also major non-similarities to that case,” NYPD deputy chief Michael Kemper, who is investigating Vetrano’s murder, said of the Vanessa Marcotte investigation on Monday night. “We are comparing evidence, we are comparing notes; simply put … we don’t believe there is a connection. With that said we are going to continue to share notes and share evidence as both cases progress.”

 

[searunner]

Spent several hours reading previous threads, a lot has been discussed with intriguing insights. Unfortunately, I cannot read every post, I just don't have the time. A few thoughts...

1. A majority sentiment on the thread doesn't mean it's right or that the opposing view can't be discussed.
2. If the DNA did match, IMO there's more of a reason to not disclose that information than if they didn't match.
3. You don't need to live in an area to be familiar with the area. There are logistical difficulties absolutely! But I'm not convinced that would stop a psycho who could have an obsession / fascination with VM.
4. IMO similarities are not overstated. Runners come in all different shapes and sizes even though they are all runners. Especially in looks: hair color, hair type, eyes, facial features, skin tone, distinguishing features, etc.. And then you have the same MO in pretty close proximity against two women living in NYC.

It's very likely these are two unrelated cases, because unfortunately it's very easy to target female runners and get away with it. These cases are only two of thousands of crimes committed against female joggers over the years. However, IMO the similarities shouldn't be denied or ignored especially when LE hasn't confirmed them as separate incidents.

All JMO.

I was simply bringing some folks up to speed on what's been covered -- summarizing.

Please read my post carefully. Nowhere did I say or imply that the majority opinion is always or even usually correct. In fact, I am a huge believer that the majority opinion on many things is often misguided and am usually more than happy to be in the minority. I was simply *summarizing.* Also, nowhere did I say or imply that the "opposing view couldn't be discussed."

Sure, the two cases *could* be related. Most people on the thread (myself included) have not ruled anything out 100% simply because we have very limited facts. So the best we can all do is to offer what we believe to be *most probable" and provide support for our opinions, while keeping open minds.

You're welcome to your opinions, as we all are.

 

[Kickoff61]

I knew I had something credible speaking to whether these cases are related. I thought we took this matter off the table a few months ago, so I let this quote go. Other then when Vanessa was first found, I haven't thought they were related. I had assumed if there were a DNA match, the police would share that information. It's important, I would think, to open fresh avenues to the public, especially in regard to his location/s on both days, and his ability and willingness to travel. That would also open new windows to how he picks his victims, what both women may have had in common, etc that would include this man. For the sake of protection, I would hope cops would release this.

If they did have a match between both men, why do you think they would want to keep that info from the public? What would they gain? That is an interesting thought, and what I have learned on WS is that I really know...so little.

Anyhow, other than Mr. Vetrano saying in an interview, "These cases are absolutely unrelated," I found this quote from NYPD deputy police. I think it's the best we have right now, though I will look around more.

Police are still searching for suspects in all three unconnected murders. “There are some similarities — female, jogger. There are also major non-similarities to that case,” NYPD deputy chief Michael Kemper, who is investigating Vetrano’s murder, said of the Vanessa Marcotte investigation on Monday night. “We are comparing evidence, we are comparing notes; simply put … we don’t believe there is a connection. With that said we are going to continue to share notes and share evidence as both cases progress.”

I suppose that leaves the door open with the part of his comment they will continue to share notes and evidence as both cases progress. As other things in this, lack of certainty yet.

 

[msphilosopher]

I was simply bringing some folks up to speed on what's been covered -- summarizing.

Please read my post carefully. Nowhere did I say or imply that the majority opinion is always or even usually correct. In fact, I am a huge believer that the majority opinion on many things is often misguided and am usually more than happy to be in the minority. I was simply *summarizing.* Also, nowhere did I say or imply that the "opposing view couldn't be discussed."

Sure, the two cases *could* be related. Most people on the thread (myself included) have not ruled anything out 100% simply because we have very limited facts. So the best we can all do is to offer what we believe to be *most probable" and provide support for our opinions, while keeping open minds.

You're welcome to your opinions, as we all are.

Yes, most certainly appreciated your summary! I did not mean to sound challenging but simply expressing my thoughts when reading your post.

Thank you for welcoming my minority opinion :dance:

I am with Evey in that the cases are related. However, I realize it's more likely that they aren't and definitely interested in exploring other avenues.

 

[msphilosopher]

I knew I had something credible speaking to whether these cases are related. I thought we took this matter off the table a few months ago, so I let this quote go. Other then when Vanessa was first found, I haven't thought they were related. I had assumed if there were a DNA match, the police would share that information. It's important, I would think, to open fresh avenues to the public, especially in regard to his location/s on both days, and his ability and willingness to travel. That would also open new windows to how he picks his victims, what both women may have had in common, etc that would include this man. For the sake of protection, I would hope cops would release this.

If they did have a match between both men, why do you think they would want to keep that info from the public? What would they gain? That is an interesting thought, and what I have learned on WS is that I really know...so little.

Anyhow, other than Mr. Vetrano saying in an interview, "These cases are absolutely unrelated," I found this quote from NYPD deputy police. I think it's the best we have right now, though I will look around more.

Police are still searching for suspects in all three unconnected murders. “There are some similarities — female, jogger. There are also major non-similarities to that case,” NYPD deputy chief Michael Kemper, who is investigating Vetrano’s murder, said of the Vanessa Marcotte investigation on Monday night. “We are comparing evidence, we are comparing notes; simply put … we don’t believe there is a connection. With that said we are going to continue to share notes and share evidence as both cases progress.”

BBM - IMO if the DNA matches, it's not what LE would gain that is the issue, it's what they would lose. Risks associated with releasing this information:

- Puts the perp on HIGH alert, on the defensive
- Risk killer changing his MO (more difficult to connect murders, capture & determine common link)
- Public panic & media frenzy -- Sets unnecessary obstacles to the investigation

IMO, if the DNA did not match then they wouldn't lose anything by saying so. So that tells me that either the DNA did match or that the results were inconclusive for whatever reason.