Madeleine McCann 3 year old missing in Portugal - Part 12

[Texana]

This is why it seems plausible that the children were given some kind of medication to make them sleep. I can easily believe that stranger abduction possibility seemed very remote at the resort. However as physicians, the McCanns had to be aware of numerous ways that children can hurt themselves even with supervision--let alone without.

How could they be so certain the children would sleep and not go into the roadway or the pool? How could they be so certain that the younger children had not awakened, even if they usually were sound sleepers, just the chance that they might have seen someone would be worth trying to wake them up.

Especially if Mrs. Fenn's testimony that she heard a child crying for some time the night before, until the parents returned, they knew at least one child could awaken.

Unless they locked the door-- why not admit that up front? Even if it did result in charges, with a child missing that would be a lesser concern.

I'm not discounting entirely the possibility of abduction, but not testing the younger children for sedatives was a botched opportunity.

 

[mrsmousemat]

In any case, this is a response from Paolo Reis to the above Times article when asked about Portugal's secrecy laws:

Right. But you know that these damned secrecy laws also exist in many other European countries, namely those countries on the other side of the British Channel, like Sweden, Netherlands, France, Spain, Greece. I would say the "segredo de justiça law", as you wrote, exists in some 24 of the 25 countries of the European Union. Now, maybe you can help me with something that has puzzled me, since the begging of this case: in UK, there is no secrecy law, right? Journalists are informed any time British Police has a new suspect in a crime investigation, right?[/quote]

No, they don't let the public know their every move but he knows this... and is being ridiculous as by conflating the question. right?

He should really be asking why the Portuguese police are barred from distributing posters or photographs to the media - asking people to see if the can find a missing child. But I suppose it depends on your view as to whether the main aim to find the child or run a nice neat investigation?

This is what set the McCanns off on their media saga as they saw the the situation as being urgent - so they asked people to help in the UK.

The British police do at least distribute posters of lost children relatively quickly and give regular press conferences. If you are a journalist, you can ring the press office of the local police force. If you are very lucky you might get an answer.

Why on earth don't they show the garage tapes of the two suspects? I just don't see the point of keeping this sort of information clutched to their chests or in a file at police HQ.

As to the Warks - if I was a betting woman, I would bet £2 that they are related as it's quite an unusual name. But then at this stage the McCanns are not going to give interviews to anyone that is obviously out to to get them, as their prime aim is to find their child.

The article is sympathetic, but you could check it out in that you could ring the people concerned and ask them if the quotes are correct. It isn't just made up through lack of info. If only you could do this with the mystery police sources so beloved in Portugal. right Paolo?

 

[mrsmousemat]

[quote=CaliKid;1659952]From what I've read about this case, the McCanns had two options in regards to childcare for their children.

1) They could've taken them back to the creche service up until 11:30 p.m. The creche, which they used during the day, apparently employed young British women trained to British standards in childcare- nannies, so to speak. I may be wrong, but I believe this service was free.

2) Someone from the creche service would have gone to their apartment and stayed until the early a.m., I think 1:00 or 1:30. This service cost extra.[/quote]

Thanks Calikid. That part of it has always looked strange, if it is true.

 

[Salem]

I believe there was a 3rd babysitting option - the McCanns could have had someone stay in the room with the kids, but they would have had to pay extra for that, it was not part of the "package."

Who are "Warks"?

Salem

 

[Salem]

I believe there was a 3rd babysitting option - the McCanns could have had someone stay in the room with the kids, but they would have had to pay extra for that, it was not part of the "package."

Who are "Warks"?

Salem

Sorry Cali - I did not read your post carefully. The 3rd option would have been the "listening" service. Someone from the resort would listen outside the door every 15 minutes, very similar to what the McCanns claimed they did. This service was included in the package. It was the babysitter in the room that costed extra (Cali's option 2 above).

 

[CaliKid]

This is why it seems plausible that the children were given some kind of medication to make them sleep. I can easily believe that stranger abduction possibility seemed very remote at the resort. However as physicians, the McCanns had to be aware of numerous ways that children can hurt themselves even with supervision--let alone without.

How could they be so certain the children would sleep and not go into the roadway or the pool? How could they be so certain that the younger children had not awakened, even if they usually were sound sleepers, just the chance that they might have seen someone would be worth trying to wake them up.

Especially if Mrs. Fenn's testimony that she heard a child crying for some time the night before, until the parents returned, they knew at least one child could awaken.

Unless they locked the door-- why not admit that up front? Even if it did result in charges, with a child missing that would be a lesser concern.

I'm not discounting entirely the possibility of abduction, but not testing the younger children for sedatives was a botched opportunity.

We're starting to get conflicting stories about the locked door. According to several sources, the McCanns originally claimed the door was locked but discovered that it's illegal in Portugal to leave children in an unlocked room. So then they stated the door was unlocked, and people jumped all over them for giving a kidnapper/pedophile easy access to the kids. Now they're back to the original story.

 

[Texana]

We're starting to get conflicting stories about the locked door. According to several sources, the McCanns originally claimed the door was locked but discovered that it's illegal in Portugal to leave children in an unlocked room. So then they stated the door was unlocked, and people jumped all over them for giving a kidnapper/pedophile easy access to the kids. Now they're back to the original story.

It certainly makes much more sense that they would feel secure with the door locked. If they didn't lock the door, then only sedating the children makes sense.

Leaving the children with the door unlocked, knowing that at least one could wake up (and cry loudly) doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[CaliKid]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ews.html?in_article_id=479948&in_page_id=1811

Home... even without Madeleine... will be a comfort

 

[april4sky]

Sorry Cali - I did not read your post carefully. The 3rd option would have been the "listening" service. Someone from the resort would listen outside the door every 15 minutes, very similar to what the McCanns claimed they did. This service was included in the package. It was the babysitter in the room that costed extra (Cali's option 2 above).

Thanks for posting this Salem.

It answers my question if a baby listening service was offered at the resort.
It also tells us that the holiday company were happy with this particular arrangement and why the McCanns felt it was safe. They opted to do their own checks for themselves though.

It also might be why there's been no charges brought.

I would hope that the babylistening service has been stopped and no longer an option "Anywhere".

 

[CaliKid]

Thanks for posting this Salem.

It answers my question if a baby listening service was offered at the resort.
It also tells us that the holiday company were happy with this particular arrangement and why the McCanns felt it was safe. They opted to do their own checks for themselves though.

It also might be why there's been no charges brought.

I would hope that the babylistening service has been stopped and no longer an option "Anywhere".

Several of the couples had previously stayed at a Mark Warner resort in Greece where a babylistening service was offered. One of the first interviews mentioned that everyone in their group was surprised that PDL didn't have this service. So I'm wondering if maybe their plan for nighttime childcare was the listening service and by the time they found out it wasn't offered, they were already on vacation and had to come up with Plan B. It still doesn't let them off the hook for leaving the kids by themselves.

 

[april4sky]

Several of the couples had previously stayed at a Mark Warner resort in Greece where a babylistening service was offered. One of the first interviews mentioned that everyone in their group was surprised that PDL didn't have this service. So I'm wondering if maybe their plan for nighttime childcare was the listening service and by the time they found out it wasn't offered, they were already on vacation and had to come up with Plan B. It still doesn't let them off the hook for leaving the kids by themselves.

I agree Calikid. But there is so much rumor about everything in this case that I would like to know for sure if the listening service was on offer.

 

[docwho3]

I am going to go out on a limb here as I have done before in other cases (sometimes to my later chagrin) and be supportive of the L.E., this time the Portuguese L.E. I am rooting for them, along with the Brit L.E. & other agencies, to solve this case wherever the final solution takes them. I think that if I understand some of what has been happening they have been doing all that they could within the laws they have to work with to find this missing little girl. Time is ticking away even if our justice clock has no tic toc and I am hoping that in time we may know some interesting things and perhaps at last know her whereabouts. I believe and hope there is some movement behind the scenes but that it may take a time for it to be known and understood. I think they may have some sharp minds there.

 

[Shazza]

I am going to go out on a limb here as I have done before in other cases (sometimes to my later chagrin) and be supportive of the L.E., this time the Portuguese L.E. I am rooting for them, along with the Brit L.E. & other agencies, to solve this case wherever the final solution takes them. I think that if I understand some of what has been happening they have been doing all that they could within the laws they have to work with to find this missing little girl. Time is ticking away even if our justice clock has no tic toc and I am hoping that in time we may know some interesting things and perhaps at last know her whereabouts. I believe and hope there is some movement behind the scenes but that it may take a time for it to be known and understood. I think they may have some sharp minds there.

I dont think you are going out on a limb, most of the posters here would agree with your post, well I for one do, that is what we all want, to find out what happened to Madelaine, whether it be by the P LE or the British, I really dont care who as long as it isnt one of those cases that we never find out what has happened.

 

[april4sky]

I am going to go out on a limb here as I have done before in other cases (sometimes to my later chagrin) and be supportive of the L.E., this time the Portuguese L.E. I am rooting for them, along with the Brit L.E. & other agencies, to solve this case wherever the final solution takes them. I think that if I understand some of what has been happening they have been doing all that they could within the laws they have to work with to find this missing little girl. Time is ticking away even if our justice clock has no tic toc and I am hoping that in time we may know some interesting things and perhaps at last know her whereabouts. I believe and hope there is some movement behind the scenes but that it may take a time for it to be known and understood. I think they may have some sharp minds there.

docwho3 I do hope you are right.

I can't believe the Portugese L.E. or the British L.E. are sitting around twiddling their fingers.

They are probably very happy that all the speculation has taken the focus away from them as it's given them a very convenient smokescreen in which to do their work unhindered.

I go back and forth on whether they will solve Madeleine's case. So I do hope the work that L.E. are doing in the background is leading somewhere.....hopefully to Madeleine.

 

[docwho3]

I dont think you are going out on a limb, most of the posters here would agree with your post, well I for one do, that is what we all want, to find out what happened to Madelaine, whether it be by the P LE or the British, I really dont care who as long as it isnt one of those cases that we never find out what has happened.

Thanks for the kind response. I called it "going out on a limb" because I once tried to wait and see on that Nifong case and ended up with egg on my face but that was a risk I took trying to support the people who are supposed to be the good guys and do the right things in a case. However, I use the case to have a laugh at myself and keep humble and to remind myself that the good guys don't always get it right.

 

[Shazza]

I will miss you Shazza, take good care of yourself and put your health first.



I can relate to wanting a break, especially as the "news" is non-existent. My "real" life is also busy, busy, busy these days.

CYA soon!

Hi Shazza,

I hope you feel better soon, but don't forget about us. Post when you can but not so much that you make yourself sick. Love ya.
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.anorak.co.uk/twitterings/176231.html

I wonder if this Penny Wark is any relation to Kristy Wark who interviewed GM in Scotland?

http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article2379833.ece

In any case, this is a response from Paolo Reis to the above Times article when asked about Portugal's secrecy laws:

Right. But you know that these damned secrecy laws also exist in many other European countries, namely those countries on the other side of the British Channel, like Sweden, Netherlands, France, Spain, Greece. I would say the "segredo de justiça law", as you wrote, exists in some 24 of the 25 countries of the European Union. Now, maybe you can help me with something that has puzzled me, since the begging of this case: in UK, there is no secrecy law, right? Journalists are informed any time British Police has a new suspect in a crime investigation, right?

Thanks guys, I hope you know how special you are, the time and effort you put in this thread to try and help dear little Madelaine is just beyond my comprehension, I have so much going on, and am unable to participate as much as I like, but I do come and read, you guys, Colomom & Calikid are very very special and I thankyou from the bottom of my heart.
Prayers to Madelaine and everyone working on her case and to all the posters here who are keeping madelaine alive in our hearts.:blowkiss:

 

[mrsmousemat]

I thought I'd look up Tripadvisor, Praia de Luz Mark Warner on Google ( for some reason the site doesn't seem to want me to make a link) and read what ordinary holidaymakers had to say about the resort.

Mixed reviews but I hadn't realised the extent of the cobblestones and lack of pavements and the very busy main road that is spoken about. The reviews don't say much about childcare at night, which was disappointing.

I'll be looking at this site less often now, as my daughter is back in school and I have to do some real writing work. So I wish you all well. I hope that there is a breakthrough soon.

 

[Shazza]

Thanks for the kind response. I called it "going out on a limb" because I once tried to wait and see on that Nifong case and ended up with egg on my face but that was a risk I took trying to support the people who are supposed to be the good guys and do the right things in a case. However, I use the case to have a laugh at myself and keep humble and to remind myself that the good guys don't always get it right.

Yeah, the good guys dont always get it right, but lets hope someone gets it right here, there are obviously things they know that we are not privy to, I dont understand why this cant be put to rest, if it is only the evidence that has been sent away for testing that we are waiting for, for it to take this long I dont hold out much hope that we will learn anything that might help Madelaine.

 

[colomom]

I am going to go out on a limb here as I have done before in other cases (sometimes to my later chagrin) and be supportive of the L.E., this time the Portuguese L.E. I am rooting for them, along with the Brit L.E. & other agencies, to solve this case wherever the final solution takes them. I think that if I understand some of what has been happening they have been doing all that they could within the laws they have to work with to find this missing little girl. Time is ticking away even if our justice clock has no tic toc and I am hoping that in time we may know some interesting things and perhaps at last know her whereabouts. I believe and hope there is some movement behind the scenes but that it may take a time for it to be known and understood. I think they may have some sharp minds there.

Me too!!!

 

[mrsmousemat]

More from Real Holiday Reports

Our only problem with the Ocean Club was that although it was meant to be child friendly, the resort was extremely spread out. We ended up a 10 minute walk to the pool via cobbled streets which is hard work with a pushchair. The appartment had a huge marbled staircase which was potentially lethal for a toddler. we did manage to hire a stairgate and cot, cost 48 euros for 1 week so budget for these extra costs.

Maybe not the same apartment or type of apretment though.