Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #15

[MENDEL]

My bold: I have not seen any information about the circumstances of CB's adoption; have you, or is this a theoretical opinion? Not meaning to sound stern - for clarification only...

Me neither, Circulo. It's theoretical opinion indeed. All we know is that he had a single addicted mother and was later adopted by a family with exchange of family name and withholding of biological family.

 

[Newthoughts]

I think they fancy him for one or more local things

I am hugely cynical so feel free to ignore me, but I would not be surprised if the only MM evidence they have is his "confessions"

I also suffer from cynicism as a default setting but I do not believe any credible LE agency makes sweeping comments like the ones being made here without having a hell of a lot to support it.

The risks to the case and risks if being sued are far too great to say anything

I believe German LE to be very credible. I believe they have far more than they say

Maybe this is a ploy to help the EU courts judge CBs character to determine whether he was escaping or just fancied a few days by the seaside

 

[tedtink]

re: Photo of CB in a bar with the Jagermeister girl used widely in media.

Go to CB's FB page (HW) go to one of the pages that he has "liked" which is the Havana Bar in Linden.
Scroll down the photo's - I think this is where the pic of him with Mrs Muller on his lap was taken, (removed now) the decor is the same.

Scroll down towards the bottom of the pics and you will see a dog wandering around the bar, possibly Charlie "Pillow Dog"?
Could it be Charlie?

Not really relevant, but may help to confirm dates he was there.

 

[mrjitty]

I also suffer from cynicism as a default setting but I do not believe any credible LE agency makes sweeping comments like the ones being made here without having a hell of a lot to support it.

The risks to the case and risks if being sued are far too great to say anything

I believe German LE to be very credible. I believe they have far more than they say

Maybe this is a ploy to help the EU courts judge CBs character to determine whether he was escaping or just fancied a few days by the seaside

I get that belief, but my problem with it is if they had a hell of a lot, I think they would be charging him.

As it stands, we remain in the world of no body, no hard proof of what crime was committed and no forensics to tie him to the scene.

Unless somehow they hold a trump card ...

 

[tedtink]

Me neither, Circulo. It's theoretical opinion indeed. All we know is that he had a single addicted mother and was later adopted by a family with exchange of family name and withholding of biological family.

IF a birth Mother is an addict that can potentially have profound effects on the developing brain of the foetus for starters. (Depending on addiction of course)

(Not excusing behaviors of course or placing any blame on birth Mothers.)

 

[enjy15]

Given he's been on the radar for 4 years and no charges relating to MM, i do still believe he's part of a bigger thing.

I still think that the german police are strategically (and have been) releasing tid bits to flush out others within his circle of acquaintances for information, observation or implication and have been trading information for leniency and as a result, MM is not the current focus.

Her disappearance of course is the investigative line but the path can deviate and there hasnt yet been any charges except for those designed to keep him in the jurisdiction.

The police may decide to charge him with multiple cases of child abuse or rape etc etc, which could put him in prison for a long time - even as many as he wouldve received if convicted of MM.

what i dont get is how a prisoner can access 1 to 3 lawyers when they havent had any charge. And if he is allowed a lawyer, wouldnt that only be allowed to be for representation on current matters and not of matters that may or may not materialise

I agree with you - I think there is something much bigger. As MM is one of the biggest missing persons cases it’s easy to think they are just tackling him for that but I’m sure it’s something much bigger which is not in public knowledge. I don’t think they have been focusing just on MM for the 4 years.

He gets lawyers as this is such a huge case they would be willing to work pro bono for the publicity it would bring the lawyers and support their careers massively if successful. I think it is morally wrong and I could never defend him due to his past crimes but as others have mentioned law has to be impartial. I think CB is very manipulative and has even made his lawyer think he is a good person. As it’s in the MSM I believe that’s why the lawyer is commenting.

 

[Tim N]

I think they fancy him for one or more local things

I am hugely cynical so feel free to ignore me, but I would not be surprised if the only MM evidence they have is his "confessions"

no there are plenty of differing views thats what makes it interesting. cynicism noted..rightly so.

im deliberately pushing an angle like its a wager and arguing its merit. i think based on what we know, both, and other scenarios are all plausible. We argue about how plausible it is.

I&n my case ill humbly concede everything if it turns out he was a loner.

 

[Pimlipo]

re: Photo of CB in a bar with the Jagermeister girl used widely in media.

Go to CB's FB page (HW) go to one of the pages that he has "liked" which is the Havana Bar in Linden.
Scroll down the photo's - I think this is where the pic of him with Mrs Muller on his lap was taken, (removed now) the decor is the same.

Scroll down towards the bottom of the pics and you will see a dog wandering around the bar, possibly Charlie "Pillow Dog"?
Could it be Charlie?

Not really relevant, but may help to confirm dates he was there.

Hey could you point me towards how to find this? Thanks

 

[Dlk79]

Me neither, Circulo. It's theoretical opinion indeed. All we know is that he had a single addicted mother and was later adopted by a family with exchange of family name and withholding of biological family.

Why do you say she was an addict? Do you have a link for that? The only thing I've read is that he was given up by his mother as a baby. Haven't seen any mention of her being single or addicted.

 

[Miss_Paula]

Thanks for that incredible amount of work. A lot to think about but I see the concerns. I am still working through it but it is a very good defence.

Like you I am 'surprised' at the quality of any lawyer confident enough to not only come up with it but to have worried German prosecutors. More so now you say one of them doesn't need the publicity

A lot to think about there but the nobody can believe the 'holiday story's surely.

Yet again Portugese inaction seems to be at fault

Thanks.

I am sorry to give the impression that the Portuguese authorities are working at a slightly different pace to others.

But I would like to assure you that the Portuguese are wonderful people and it is such a beautiful country.

 

[Pixie Child]

BKA also have at least 100 pics in which CB features so they have to try to ID each of those victims.

 

[Sharkbite]

Me neither, Circulo. It's theoretical opinion indeed. All we know is that he had a single addicted mother and was later adopted by a family with exchange of family name and withholding of biological family.

A bit of info:

The "Diakonie is the social welfare organisation of Germany's Protestant churches. Our mission is to practice charity in the model of Jesus Christ."

The Matthäuskirche in Bergtheim (Ivar B.) is Evangelical Lutheran which is also Protestant faith.

CB's adoption could well have been arranged by the protestant church.

The Evangelical Lutherian church stood for many adoptions in Germany with over 60 adoption agencies under their wing. *1992
Adoptions in West Germany: Attitudes of Social Workers on JSTOR

It would be interesting to know if Mr/Mrs B were religious people and if the adoption was done through the church, maybe it was even a requirement that 'adopters' had to be active members of the church to be able to adopt?

It seems that Mrs B might have returned CB to the same 'institution' she originally got him from when he was a baby.

My initial thoughts on Ivar B were actually that he could in some way be related to MrB, a brother or uncle maybe, which somehow led me to this. It could be just a coincidence that Ivar B the priest shares the surname of course.


@BIZCOCHO

 

[Sharkbite]

re: Photo of CB in a bar with the Jagermeister girl used widely in media.

Go to CB's FB page (HW) go to one of the pages that he has "liked" which is the Havana Bar in Linden.
Scroll down the photo's - I think this is where the pic of him with Mrs Muller on his lap was taken, (removed now) the decor is the same.

Scroll down towards the bottom of the pics and you will see a dog wandering around the bar, possibly Charlie "Pillow Dog"?
Could it be Charlie?

Not really relevant, but may help to confirm dates he was there.

Yes, it is the same bar.

 

[Miss_Paula]

If it is as simple as that, I can't really understand why lawyers would be saying it is a 50-50 call. His previous record of fleeing prosecutions in Germany and going into hiding in Portugal is bound to go against him you'd think.

Yes, your points 1) and 2) summarize this in essence.

Why the fifty-fifty? I'm not a lawyer. But the ECJ allegedly interprets the speciality principle very narrowly. They see this as a high European law. And I cannot predict what trick CB's lawyers will pull out of their hat tomorrow.

We'll see. Tomorrow afternoon we'll know more. And I hope the ECJ ruling will be published in full in a couple of weeks.

 

[tedtink]

Yes, it is the same bar.

Is it 'cushion dog' Shark?

 

[Miss_Paula]

A massive search just like in Hannover?

German thoroughness

 

[MENDEL]

Why do you say she was an addict? Do you have a link for that? The only thing I've read is that he was given up by his mother as a baby. Haven't seen any mention of her being single or addicted.

I think I read it somewhere. I'll try to find a link.

 

[Ardoch]

German thoroughness

Indeed and why much credence is given to HCW's statements.

 

[Sharkbite]

I think I read it somewhere. I'll try to find a link.

#metoo

 

[Miss_Paula]

I agree one can call for witnesses, but to also effectively say, "we know this guy did it AND we know MM is dead" is pretty massive claims when you don't have evidence to charge, and you won't explain.

I find that whole aspect pretty mysterious, and think this may end up biting German LE if they cannot back up the talk.

I have two guesses:

1) It is obviously necessary for the purely legal aspects of criminal prosecution to assume murder (and to call it that way: "We are investigating Mr. X for murder").
Kidnapping could become time-barred, murder never.

2) Why do they say that the child is dead?
Either because it would logically follow from 1) or they have actually found something in the thousands of pornographic image files that points to MM, but which does not allow evidence about the perpetrator because he is not visible on it.