Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #15

Welcome to Websleuths!
Click to learn how to make a missing person's thread

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
A bit of info:

The "Diakonie is the social welfare organisation of Germany's Protestant churches. Our mission is to practice charity in the model of Jesus Christ."

The Matthäuskirche in Bergtheim (Ivar B.) is Evangelical Lutheran which is also Protestant faith.

CB's adoption could well have been arranged by the protestant church.

The Evangelical Lutherian church stood for many adoptions in Germany with over 60 adoption agencies under their wing. *1992
Adoptions in West Germany: Attitudes of Social Workers on JSTOR

It would be interesting to know if Mr/Mrs B were religious people and if the adoption was done through the church, maybe it was even a requirement that 'adopters' had to be active members of the church to be able to adopt?

It seems that Mrs B might have returned CB to the same 'institution' she originally got him from when he was a baby.

My initial thoughts on Ivar B were actually that he could in some way be related to MrB, a brother or uncle maybe, which somehow led me to this. It could be just a coincidence that Ivar B the priest shares the surname of course.


@BIZCOCHO

A couple of nuggets from BIZCOCHO

It seems that at least 1 of CB's brothers could be his real brother according the The Irish Daily Mail

"...adopted Christian and his older brother from a home in the late 1970's"
PressReader.com - Your favorite newspapers and magazines.

Also a possible location of the Diakonie children's home he was sent to in Wurzburg. If this is not the actual home it is likely CB's placement was mediated by this center.

Evangelische Kinder-, Jugend- und Familienhilfe
Protestant children, youth and family welfare aid.

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

The reviews are interesting.
 
Last edited:
At least I didn't except to determine precise location in Málaga's port. I think it's somewhere between those yellow pins. They're not very visible because I had to downsize image, but they're around image's center.

View attachment 258561

I banged the nail on the head with the timing ;) Still trying to find the post with the dented VW from the 30th though :)
 
Re your point 1

I agree and don't find it surprising to assume she is dead - it is actually logical given everything we know. Especially if LE believe based on some withheld evidence, that CB is guilty then the theory of the case will be she is dead. Like 99.99%

This is why we don't need to assume they have a picture - the inference flows from his suspected guilt.

Re your point 2

Do you think if the German police found hard forensic evidence of MMs death, let's say a blood trace that somehow could not be tied to CB, that they would conceal this?

If not, why would it be different for a photo?

I believe they would immediately announce any such breakthrough which proved abduction and 99.99% death - if only because there is no way in hell German police will leave the parents believing she might be alive for years when they can prove otherwise.

This is why I think there is no photo - rather there is a piece of evidence that makes police believe he is guilty - say more likely guilty then not but not BARD. And if he is guilty, the only logical inference is she is dead.
I always think Police officers and prosecutors are very careful and measured in their public statements regardless of what they believe privately.


For point 1 I imagine that most police forces fear the very worse when a child has been missing for more than 24 hours because the stats are grim. Most have died between 3 and 6 hours after abduction. And yet most police forces will continue to publicly state it as missing person enquiry, with a 'fears for safety' sometimes tagged on.

UK LE - who are not party to whatever Germany has but will be able to check CB for themselves - stated that for them it remained a missing persons case.

Very accurate inferences of death may flow from any evidence of his involvement, such as finding her clothing, but personally I don't think it would lead to such categorical public statements before a charge Especially if they hoped to use it in a court of law. We've already seen how good his lawyers are.

So from what they're saying, IMOO, they must have something beyond just knowing that if CB is involved the poor child won't have survived.

They clearly do not have forensic evidence she is dead because only a body provides that. Nothing else.

But they do claim to have very good evidence not only that she is but also that she died reasonably shortly after being abducted. They didn't say fears she was dead and they gave a time limit. They also seem to imply they know how but that's my opinion. But that I find telling

So my opinion is they have some evidence, beyond inference, of what happened to her tho not necessarily of HIS guilt BARD.

The only thing I can think of, given his MO and what we know they've found, is images where he cannot be identified BARD. But if you have other ideas I'd be interested to hear them.

I'd add to that - the fact they've released poor quality pictures of rooms in his house which is odd. And that they've said they believe other person's have knowledge of what happened.

Why? Maybe they believe someone might have purchased recordings of something happening in that room from him. If they come forward they have another link. MOO

They may not have said they have images but when asked directly they did not deny it which speaks volumes.

There are some pictures you cannot show the world Nor would you want to show parents until you had to. But they have left her parents in no doubt that they think she's dead.

The only other thing I can think of is that they have a belief such images exist elsewhere and they are trying to smoke out others

Lastly her parents are Drs - they are even more than aware than a non scientist of what 99% sure she's dead means. They are not being given false hope
 
But I think it's unlikely that any footage of or from CB has been found there already. If not mentioned by the police anyway, this would surely have been leaked to the press.

pure speculation but nonetheless..

early june it was reported that they had found a USB stick in 2016.

Madeleine McCann suspect Christian Brueckner kept kids' clothes and swimwear in his mobile home - LEVEL MAGAZINE

and june 29.

Germany probes 30,000 over paedophile network

im sure its coincidence but it got my attention as it seemed uncanny and a little odd for it to be released then.
 
Aktenzeichen XY - 3 June 2020


approx. min 10'30"

Here, the supporting beam is particularly emphasized and addressed by Christian Hoppe, Chief Criminal Investigation Director at the BKA in Wiesbaden - and shown from two perspectives. It has been specially highlighted with a marking arrow.

Also - probably with good reason - special attention was paid to the sofa in the picture.

Spiegel TV June 10, 2020


approx. min 4'45"

In the picture: said house of CB, then the living room and the beam.

Comment from the off:
"In his house he is said to have tied a young girl, unknown to this day, to the beam on the left of the picture and forced her to have oral sex."

After this Spiegel TV report it became clear to me why the BKA had pointed so insistently to the beam.
In his 2013 Skype chat where he mentions destruction of evidence he also says something along the lines of not like deepthroat that took too long (to destroy was my Inference).

No details about how young the girl was? Could it have been one of the poor kids in the tender charge of NF. Just an idea not even an opinion.
 
Comment from the off:
"In his house he is
said to have tied a young girl, unknown to this day, to the beam on the left of the picture and forced her to have oral sex."
This makes it sound that it is something that LE have been told of, and not actually seen themselves.

"In his house he is said ...
In German: "Hier soll er ...

This is stronger than the English "It is said", but I don't know how to translate it better. Maybe:
is supposed to ...

I am a very critical media user and can say about the Spiegel report:

It is clear from the entire report that Spiegel TV obviously refers in its statements to the police findings. Spiegel names - as in a later report about CB's friend from Braunschweig, otherwise his sources.

And if one follows the logic of the second part of the sentence above: If the girl on the beam is unknown, the information can only come from photographs. If you had witnesses, you'd know her identity.

... does Hoppe actually say anything about any video evidence at all in the clip?
No. And that can be explained.
He was generally very reserved, even the photo of the suspect was not shown.

It's German custom in such cases. The protection of the victims, but also the legal basis. A suspect who has not even been charged enjoys protection. If the investigating authorities were to commit even the slightest legal error, this could have disastrous consequences for a later trial.

Hoppe had the photos shown in the TV show, but did not talk about their origin.
 
It was discussed here before,about Gm and TL.According to several newspapers,when he checked the children.GM saw during his checking Maddie sleeping:

"Madeleine was lying on her left side, her legs under the covers, in exactly the same position we had left her in. He paused for a couple of seconds to look at Madeleine and thought to herself that she is so beautiful After opening the bedroom door and returning it to its original angle, he went to the bathroom before leaving the apartment, "he adds in the book.”
(Madeleine estaba acostada sobre su lado izquierdo, sus piernas debajo de las sábanas, exactamente en la misma posición en la que la habíamos dejado. Hizo una pausa por un par de segundos para mirar a Madeleine y pensó para sí mismo que ella es tan hermosa. Después de abrir la puerta del dormitorio y volverla a su ángulo original, fue al baño antes de salir del apartamento", agrega en el libro.)

Madeleine: la imagen previa a su desaparición que el padre no puede borrar
 
Maddie suspect Christian B WINS appeal claiming rape arrest warrant illegal

Is this being reported elsewhere? Or misleading article?

ETA: notice they have just amended the headline of the story no longer says he Wins appeal, but still has a source claming the arrest warrant was illegal. Think this is premature reporting, not clear what it's based on.
Highest european court told C.B. and F.F. to just *advertiser censored** off!;)

Due to a legal opinion of an advocate general, the arrestment of C.B. was lawful. The court likely follows the opinions of their avocate generals.

Verdächtiger im Fall Maddie: Christian B. muss Rückschlag am EuGH hinnehmen

Ok two contradictory stories. The Sun is not reliable and would love any anti EU court story so will German source.

Both could be true - just one incomplete. Hopefully CB has lost over all
 
Ahhh now I understand why I couldn't find it, I was referring to the VW footage from the 30th and whether the van has the dent on that date. I know it's visible on 2 of the 3 shots we had before the video footage came out.

Is that the dent you're talking about? You can't see that on video, is it, Shark?
 
And if one follows the logic of the second part of the sentence above: If the girl on the beam is unknown, the information can only come from photographs. If you had witnesses, you'd know her identity.

Unless of course the witnesses had seen footage/images but were unable to identify the victim/s
 
In his 2013 Skype chat where he mentions destruction of evidence he also says something along the lines of not like deepthroat that took too long (to destroy was my Inference).

No details about how young the girl was? Could it have been one of the poor kids in the tender charge of NF. Just an idea not even an opinion.
What is important is that he does not speak there of a concrete action (in the past), but about his wishes and fantasies.

That is why there can be no investigation into this "something small".

The publication of the chat should be more about telling details about his mental and psychological state. It is not connected to any concrete investigation.

Should I publish the screenshots of the chats here in the forum? I think you know them.
 
Unless of course the witnesses had seen footage/images but were unable to identify the victim/s

Two things are possible:
1) The two friends of CB, who "stole" video footage from the house and later reported to the police without the footage (because they had thrown it away) with a statement, may have talked about it. Since their reference to the raped American woman was absolutely and doubtlessly true, the police classify them as credible.

2) There were references to the "beam" in the material that the police found themselves.

In any case, the allegation about the incident to the public comes from the police and not from other "witnesses" who told the Spiegel that.
 
Ok two contradictory stories. The Sun is not reliable and would love any anti EU court story so will German source.

Both could be true - just one incomplete. Hopefully CB has lost over all

The English reports make no sense - they contain internally inconsistent content

Frankfurter Allgemeine is a reliable source and RTL now carries it

Short version, because he left Germany and was arrested under a new warrant, Italy had agreed he could be brought back to Germany to stand trial and the original Portuguese extradition was not relevant
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
96
Guests online
1,935
Total visitors
2,031

Forum statistics

Threads
605,411
Messages
18,186,613
Members
233,355
Latest member
frankiterranova
Back
Top