Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #19

[MENDEL]

Do you mean the 10YO girl, Super?

 

[SuperdadV8]

Do you mean the 10YO girl, Super?

Yes, the investigation to the ten year old girl either.

But IMO the HazelB-rape case could be a huge step forward, if it could be linked to our suspect. Why?

Because the DM case is different in some things. As horrible as it sounds, but there should be a difference between a "short" ordeal over 15 minutes (That are horrible 15 minutes and that shouldn't ever happen to any human being!!!) and a well planned, "staged" ordeal over many hours. The HazelB case would tell so much about a modus operandi, that could give a very important link to someone who wants to torture someone for days etc..

So IF there is footage of another crimes including the similar or same modus operandi, maybe with some proven physical assets of the disguised perp, it could be more than enough to charge someone without existing forensic evidence.

JMO!

 

[peanutJelly]

I think the video of the elderly woman, where he removed his mask for the camera, was to gain access to some sick DW group. This is why he disguised himself so that she couldn’t identify him, but then removed his mask for the camera to prove it was him who did it. A lot of DW groups don’t let you join unless you can prove you’re one of them. I’m sure this helps them to avoid anyone undercover joining.

 

[enjy15]

I think the video of the elderly woman, where he removed his mask for the camera, was to gain access to some sick DW group. This is why he disguised himself so that she couldn’t identify him, but then removed his mask for the camera to prove it was him who did it. A lot of DW groups don’t let you join unless you can prove you’re one of them. I’m sure this helps them to avoid anyone undercover joining.

Good theory. If that’s the case, hopefully he is identifiable in other attacks he’s filmed so it can bring justice.
If your theory is true, it should mean the evidence of attacks can’t be destroyed (only physically) if he has uploaded them to the dark web.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Good theory. If that’s the case, hopefully he is identifiable in other attacks he’s filmed so it can bring justice.
If your theory is true, it should mean the evidence of attacks can’t be destroyed (only physically) if he has uploaded them to the dark web.

This, and if you can link a modus operandi at raping other younger or adult women using condoms, you can take this strategy as avoiding forensic evidence, that can link the perp to the case.

If the same (!) perp doesn't do that in case of abusing minors/children, the prosecuters can take it as intent to "get rid of the evidence", after that cruel attack, what is cruicial to build up a murder case IMO.

 

[enjy15]

This, and if you can link a modus operandi at raping other younger or adult women using condoms, you can take this strategy as avoiding forensic evidence, that can link the perp to the case.

If the same (!) perp doesn't do that in case of abusing minors/children, the prosecuters can take it as intent to "get rid of the evidence", after that cruel attack, what is cruicial to build up a murder case IMO.

If true, hopefully they can bust these awful dark web groups. I think the case is bigger than just CB even if he acted alone, I think he is linked to paedophile groups and dark web groups.

 

[mrjitty]

A litte digression, how public inquiry in Germany works:

As long as a possible perpetrator has not been convicted by a court, he is initially considered a suspect. In order to protect personal rights, attempts are made to first resort to milder instruments, for example an internal police search or the evaluation of surveillance material. A hasty image search would on the one hand cause public unrest and on the other hand could have fatal consequences for a suspect who turns out to be innocent. If the police finally comes to a point in the investigation where they cannot make progress on a case on their own, they can ask the public prosecutor to carry out a public search. The investigative authorities must therefore first exhaust other investigative approaches available to them before resorting to the public search Instrument.

Section 131b of the Code of Criminal Procedure (StPO) describes the requirements that must be met for the approval of the public prosecutor's office:

"(1) The publication of images of an accused who is suspected of a criminal offense of considerable importance is also permitted if the investigation of a criminal offense, in particular the establishment of the identity of an unknown perpetrator, would otherwise be considerably less promising or much more difficult.

(2) The publication of images of a witness and references to the criminal proceedings on which the publication is based are also permitted if the investigation of a criminal offense of considerable importance, in particular the establishment of the witness's identity, would otherwise be futile or significantly more difficult. The publication must make it clear that the person depicted is not the accused."

If the police sends an investigation file to the public prosecutor's office, they first check whether the criteria for an image search are met. If this is the case, the public search is requested directly from the public prosecutor at the district court. Then the court judges and the application goes back the same way: The district court communicates its decision to the public prosecutor, who in turn informs the police authorities. As soon as the judge's decision has been made, appropriate media information is drawn up in coordination between the public prosecutor and the police and published - usually via the police press office.

According to Paragraph 131b of the Code of Criminal Procedure, not all investigative attempts have to have failed before investigators can go public with photos. The urgency and gravity of the offense are crucial. In the case of simple theft, for example, the catalog of criminal offenses does not allow a public manhunt to be initiated with pictures. On the other hand, if the crime is considered particularly serious, other rules apply. The authority to issue orders rests in principle with the investigating judge; in the event of imminent danger, the public prosecutor's office may also issue the order.

So in that case, prosecuters got the legal permission by a german court to go that way. They haven't anything to fear. The solicitors would have to appeal against the court decision, that gave permission to that public inquiry. Did they? IMO not.

If the case against CB will be dismissed, Maybe they will try to force a compensation. That will be a long hard way, due to the curts decision, a public inquiry in that case was legal. If the case faces a courtroom, an appeal would likely be made according to the claim of a possible breach of the fair-trial-principle. Even that would be long hard way, because the public inquiry resists on a court rule and decisions of courts usually got limited verifiability.

Thanks for this critical info!

I trained under NZ law which is similar to the UK. I am aware Germany is different, but I don't understand these kinds of details.

 

[MENDEL]

That's two different legal systems. Common law and Roman law.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I think the video of the elderly woman, where he removed his mask for the camera, was to gain access to some sick DW group. This is why he disguised himself so that she couldn’t identify him, but then removed his mask for the camera to prove it was him who did it. A lot of DW groups don’t let you join unless you can prove you’re one of them. I’m sure this helps them to avoid anyone undercover joining.

Can you please help me clear something up in my own mind? From what I understand it seems clear that we are aware of four videos.

Two of these, young German girl and older (probably Italian) lady were destroyed by MS and HB.

Female (Irish) HB has stated that the offender in her case recorded it.

The DM case (72 year-old American woman) occurred in 2005. Does this footage still exist? I think I recall the statement about removing of the mask coming from the supposed bar confession - as others have sleuthed, this confession was probably cover for male (German) HB’s statement. I just don’t know if I think this footage from 2005 still exists, wouldn’t it likely have been with the camera and other paraphernalia that MS and HB destroyed in 2006?

Further, is there actually any video footage we know of that definitely still exists which we can link to a specific crime?

ETA: I forgot the footage of his abuse of his ex-girlfriend’s daughter (sick twisted unit). But, would like input on the above if possible.

 

[Dlk79]

Can you please help me clear something up in my own mind? From what I understand it seems clear that we are aware of four videos.

Two of these, young German girl and older (probably Italian) lady were destroyed by MS and HB.

Female (Irish) HB has stated that the offender in her case recorded it.

The DM case (72 year-old American woman) occurred in 2005. Does this footage still exist? I think I recall the statement about removing of the mask coming from the supposed bar confession - as others have sleuthed, this confession was probably cover for male (German) HB’s statement. I just don’t know if I think this footage from 2005 still exists, wouldn’t it likely have been with the camera and other paraphernalia that MS and HB destroyed in 2006?

Further, is there actually any video footage we know of that definitely still exists which we can link to a specific crime?

ETA: I forgot the footage of his abuse of his ex-girlfriend’s daughter (sick twisted unit). But, would like input on the above if possible.

The statement about him removing the mask came from HB when discussing the video found in the farmhouse, I think it was in reference to the Italian woman. As you say, it's looking likely that the bar confession story was actually a cover for the 2008 confession by CB to HB which he told police about in 2017, in which case that wasn't the DM video either.

There's been a lot of misreporting on the DM video (as FF also pointed out) but personally I don't think anyone has actually seen this recording. At least I think all the reports that have mentioned it are mistaken and they are confused with the other videos seen.

In terms of what happened to that recording, it's hard to say. We don't really know the full story about the farmhouse robbery. What they found and/or destroyed. Whether they did it for CB to hide evidence or to rip him off is also unclear, there's been conflicting reports but we know there was further contact between them after this date. So however disgusted they were by what they saw, they were still happy to meet him at festivals and sell him drugs. And CB was still comfortable enough with HB to apparently confess his involvement in MM.

It is possible it was destroyed or, perhaps it remained/remains hidden in another location, likewise with the HB recording if that was his work too.

 

[Sharkbite]

Can you please help me clear something up in my own mind? From what I understand it seems clear that we are aware of four videos.

Two of these, young German girl and older (probably Italian) lady were destroyed by MS and HB.

Female (Irish) HB has stated that the offender in her case recorded it.

The DM case (72 year-old American woman) occurred in 2005. Does this footage still exist? I think I recall the statement about removing of the mask coming from the supposed bar confession - as others have sleuthed, this confession was probably cover for male (German) HB’s statement. I just don’t know if I think this footage from 2005 still exists, wouldn’t it likely have been with the camera and other paraphernalia that MS and HB destroyed in 2006?

Further, is there actually any video footage we know of that definitely still exists which we can link to a specific crime?

ETA: I forgot the footage of his abuse of his ex-girlfriend’s daughter (sick twisted unit). But, would like input on the above if possible.

How was the initial contact made between BKA and HB? directly by HB? or by SY after HB had spoke to them?
I was going through some older German articles yesterday and came across this which made me wonder about the the bar confession being a cover for HB's statement.

After a witness has pointed out, the police track him down again
In 2018, Christian B. comes again into the focus of the judiciary. A witness has reported to the German authorities. He reports on videos that would show horrific scenes of rape by an older woman and a younger girl. The Federal Criminal Police Office intervened, investigated in Portugal and came across a brutal rape case in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz.
Sadistischer Berufskrimineller: Akten zeigen die üble Vergangenheit von Christian B.
Google Translate

An older article, with some outdated stuff, but also some very good details and worth a read.

 

[Anxala]

I cannot find any direct references to CB's full name by HCW but perhaps I am not googling it well. In any case, since in Germany it's not a jury who decides it doesn't really matter IMO if he has been named. All the 'work' of finding out about him and exposing his life and past has been done by tabloids and here. I don't see how his rights have been breached. He has not even been officially interrogated yet.

I'm referring to CB's more basic human right under good international law practice to be regarded as innocent until proven otherwise, nothing to do with a jury trial. He is now regarded internationally as MM's abductor/killer thanks to Wolters and the tabloid press, despite no clear evidence to back this charge up.

There's a real integrity fail here.

A pertinent read here -
Innocent until proven guilty?

 

[Dlk79]

How was the initial contact made between BKA and HB? directly by HB? or by SY after HB had spoke to them?
I was going through some older German articles yesterday and came across this which made me wonder about the the bar confession being a cover for HB's statement.

After a witness has pointed out, the police track him down again
In 2018, Christian B. comes again into the focus of the judiciary. A witness has reported to the German authorities. He reports on videos that would show horrific scenes of rape by an older woman and a younger girl. The Federal Criminal Police Office intervened, investigated in Portugal and came across a brutal rape case in the Portuguese resort of Praia da Luz.
Sadistischer Berufskrimineller: Akten zeigen die üble Vergangenheit von Christian B.
Google Translate

An older article, with some outdated stuff, but also some very good details and worth a read.

I believe HB spoke to SY first in 2017 and SY then passed the details to BKA later that year.

In December 2017, Germany's BKA received two tips from Scotland Yard in the Madeleine case. One of them directed suspicion to Brueckner.

An informant, likely a former colleague from Portugal, claimed to have recognized him from the police sketches.

Investigators with the BKA's Department SO25 set up a special commission that began its work with the utmost secrecy. The proceedings in the Madeleine case were conducted by the public prosecutor's office in Braunschweig because Brueckner had his last official residence there.

Scotland Yard reveals Madeleine McCann cops have had 400 tip-offs

 

[SuperdadV8]

I'm referring to CB's more basic human right under good international law practice to be regarded as innocent until proven otherwise, nothing to do with a jury trial. He is now regarded internationally as MM's abductor/killer thanks to Wolters and the tabloid press, despite no clear evidence to back this charge up.

There's a real integrity fail here.

A pertinent read here -
Innocent until proven guilty?

Yes, he is and according to MM, that is worth discussing.

And even if a perpetrator has the right to be part of society again, after his punishment, everybody knows by now what kind of person he is.

A proven rapist and child molester and not even once. And the society has right to know that either, for it's own safety in the future.

I got no bad feeling about that, please apologise!

 

[Dlk79]

I'm referring to CB's more basic human right under good international law practice to be regarded as innocent until proven otherwise, nothing to do with a jury trial. He is now regarded internationally as MM's abductor/killer thanks to Wolters and the tabloid press, despite no clear evidence to back this charge up.

There's a real integrity fail here.

A pertinent read here -
Innocent until proven guilty?

I don't think that in itself constitutes a breach of human rights. I mean, whether you agree with it or not, stories and accusations against suspects appear in the Press all the time prior to them being convicted. The rules are different in each country and the UK press are possibly the most ruthless but it's not illegal for them to report stories on him.

What they do need to ensure is that there's a concerted effort to establish facts before printing them. I suspect this is what the lawyers are looking deeply into, anything that is outright lies that they could use in a libel case should CB not get charged. The same thing happened to Murat and Malinka. They won defamation compensation but not because of human rights or that they were plastered everywhere and made out to be guilty, but because of specific stories that were run claiming things that were completely untrue. This included things like SM having a previous record for child *advertiser censored* and there being traces of MM being found in RM's residence. Both utter falsities.

 

[enjy15]

The statement about him removing the mask came from HB when discussing the video found in the farmhouse, I think it was in reference to the Italian woman. As you say, it's looking likely that the bar confession story was actually a cover for the 2008 confession by CB to HB which he told police about in 2017, in which case that wasn't the DM video either.

There's been a lot of misreporting on the DM video (as FF also pointed out) but personally I don't think anyone has actually seen this recording. At least I think all the reports that have mentioned it are mistaken and they are confused with the other videos seen.

In terms of what happened to that recording, it's hard to say. We don't really know the full story about the farmhouse robbery. What they found and/or destroyed. Whether they did it for CB to hide evidence or to rip him off is also unclear, there's been conflicting reports but we know there was further contact between them after this date. So however disgusted they were by what they saw, they were still happy to meet him at festivals and sell him drugs. And CB was still comfortable enough with HB to apparently confess his involvement in MM.

It is possible it was destroyed or, perhaps it remained/remains hidden in another location, likewise with the HB recording if that was his work too.

Good write up - just wanted to add to this, HB + MS also threw a gun they found in CB's house into a lake. I'm not sure why they would do this, scared of CB owning it or getting rid of evidence?

 

[Anxala]

Yes, he is and according to MM, that is worth discussing.

And even if a perpetrator has the right to be part of society again, after his punishment, everybody knows by now what kind of person he is.

A proven rapist and child molester and not even once. And the society has right to know that either, for it's own safety in the future.

I got no bad feeling about that, please apologise!

Are you apologising for not caring or asking me to apologise for having a problem with trial by tabloid? Because, paraphrasing Herr Fulscher, hell will freeze over before the latter happens.

 

[SuperdadV8]

Are you apologising for not caring or asking me to apologise for having a problem with trial by tabloid? Because, paraphrasing Herr Fulscher, hell will freeze over before the latter happens.

Neither, nor!

I'm apologising for my differentiated opinion about it. If we were talking about a thief, that has been made public in that way and accused of that horrible crime, i would agree in every way.

But due to CB's crime record, i do not see that big kind of breach.

 

[Chiatos]

But didn't Herr Wolters say he didn't have accomplices?

I get the feeling this is turning into another conspiracy show

That's right but sexta9 has reason to believe otherwise....

 

[Sharkbite]

Did I miss who's doorbell, and for what reason SF was ringing on at the kiosk apartments in the beginning of the last sexta9 episode, or is that maybe to come in tonight's episode? We know a couple of people that live/d there other than CB.