Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #19

[MENDEL]

And if it’s just another pic amongst 8000, how do they refute his likely defence that he downloaded the pic from an online site? They would have to link his camera to it.

Or place CB on crime scene. It seems this is Herr Wolter's strategy.

 

[C.greek]

Or place CB on crime scene. It seems this is Herr Wolter's strategy.

That's the whole point. They are trying to pinpoint him, either that he abducted her himself or that someone recognises the interior of the potential crime scene that is linked to CB

 

[Anxala]

"Relevant" is the minimal criteria for anything to be used in court. It can be any type of evidence. I think circumstantial evidence needs further inference, but not direct evidence. Direct evidence can be real (anything that can be seen) or testimonial. Material evidence is something undefined forensically (real evidence?).

Isn't material evidence tangible, physical evidence though?

 

[Pixie Child]

Isn't material evidence tangible, physical evidence though?

It’s evidence that the Court can examine, so could include a photo or printouts re his computer/web/Skype use.

 

[MENDEL]

Isn't material evidence tangible, physical evidence though?

It might be real evidence indeed. But is it circumstantial or direct?

 

[Anxala]

It might be real evidence indeed. But is it circumstantial or direct?

As much as I side-eye the methodology here, the one thing I do believe and have no doubt about is that Wolters/the LE are in possession of something tangible that tells them categorically that MM is dead.

But yes, by all accounts (per Wolters' statements), what they have, while proving that MM is dead, does not prove that CB was responsible for that death, hence their ongoing vagueness as regards exactly what they have against him as evidence.

So yes, all points to circumstantial imo.

 

[enjy15]

It might be real evidence indeed. But is it circumstantial or direct?

IMO they have the circumstantial evidence which they have announced to the public (in the area, phone pinging the ocean club tower, witnesses to him confessing he did it, his Skype chats etc) and then something direct e.g. photographs/video which they have not made public but have denied anything forensics such as a body, clothing, DNA. They have not denied photographs/video though.

 

[Newthoughts]

Yeah - but again this is why i struggle because to me identifying the person in the images would be the most important thing to do.

There is something very strange about all this.

When CB was first brought to our attention German LE said the parents had been informed of her death. There seemed to be confusion at the time but I've seen nothing to suggest they haven't been informed nor that they haven't identified their daughter.

If LE have images that they believe provide material evidence of her death I would imagine they wouldn't want yo show the parents the whole thing.

What material evidence do you think they may have that has allowed such a statement?

 

[Newthoughts]

So why did he photograph her dead?

1 His own paraphilia had escalated to that point.

2. It had a value - either commercial or gave him access to dark web sites.

3. He needed to provide evidence to someone else.

He videod himself committing horrific rapes - that we know. So we know he does record his acts. He has also recorded himself abusing his ex girlfriends child.

It is incredibly upsetting to say this but is it possible that he also recorded himself abusing a child and death resulting?

 

[Newthoughts]

Let's get real

If he had images of the victim dead he would be charged in 2 seconds

Charged with what?

 

[Pixie Child]

He videod himself committing horrific rapes - that we know. So we know he does record his acts. He has also recorded himself abusing his ex girlfriends child.

It is incredibly upsetting to say this but is it possible that he also recorded himself abusing a child and death resulting?

Possibly or you can do poses pm that wouldn’t be possible otherwise.

(I find it upsetting to write the last few posts I’ve written. I hope they’re deleted. If there is a trial, it’s going to be harrowing - we’ve all distracted ourselves with the mystery.)

 

[Anxala]

When CB was first brought to our attention German LE said the parents had been informed of her death. There seemed to be confusion at the time but I've seen nothing to suggest they haven't been informed nor that they haven't identified their daughter.

Their official website is still denying this and continuing to treat her as a missing person.

Updates: | findmadeleine.com

Maybe they've been informed and have had sight of this tangible evidence but have been asked not to comment any further while the LE is ongoing? That's possible...

If the case, they should update the site to that effect though. A simple statement from OG to say that the investigation is ongoing would clear any confusion up.

 

[C.greek]

Their official website is still denying this and continuing to treat her as a missing person.

Updates: | findmadeleine.com

Maybe they've been informed and have had sight of this tangible evidence but have been asked not to comment any further while the LE is ongoing? That's possible.

They should update the site to that effect though. A simple statement from OG to say that the investigation is ongoing.

They were informed of her death. But we don't know what they told them nor whether they showed them anything related to that. SY is still treating it as a missing person case. So IMO they were not shown anything to that effect. Only a statement.

 

[Victoria Chambers]

I think that 'IF' CB did have footage of MM, then yes, that is material evidence. We know LE were making enquiries with regards to the interior of his homes. So information received can add conformation to any images being taken inside a residence of CBs. It does start to stack up as non forensic evidence and since MM is no longer at the said residence, we must assume that she is deceased and more than likely as a direct result from what the footage does show. My questions would be "where was CB on the very night and also to find proof of his position the following day when he transferred his vehicle into another persons name - is this something that needed to be done in-person Or can this be done over the phone?? Either way, there is obviously some record of it somewhere. But also, if he was on one of his usual cross country drug-runs, could somebody else have had access to his property.? I know the latter theory is far fetched, but I struggle with the word of a criminal such as HB deemed reliable enough to simply act on! To think HB and the rest of the crew have and still can benefit monetarily from selling bits of info re poor MM is sickening to me and LE need to keep that in mind. The crazy thing is, with German LE coming out this year claiming to have 'Concrete evidence of MM death, naming their suspect.. if they cannot bring charges CB will ultimately end up with the riches he has been seeking all his life! More than likely will receive +thousands in compensation. Despite all his past crimes,. to publicly be falsely named the prime suspect in MM case will no doubt have huge implications for CB rest of his life. This is what makes me truly think LE must have SOMETHING! X

 

[Anxala]

They were informed of her death. But we don't know what they told them nor whether they showed them anything related to that. SY is still treating it as a missing person case. So IMO they were not shown anything to that effect. Only a statement.

^ But they're still denying this! That's my point. That's the confusion I referred to earlier. It's not about what was allegedly said or showed, it's about them continuing to claim to not ever having had any correspondence or communication from the LE that said what the LE said they said.

The latest update on that site -

The Met received one letter from the BKA on 12 June, which was passed to the family. The letter did not state that there was evidence or proof that Madeleine is dead, the MPS continues to investigate Madeleine’s disappearance as a missing person investigation. No letter has been received by the Met from the German prosecutor.

So either we believe that the LE did inform OG of their findings (and I find it hard to believe they would say they did if they didn't) or we believe that the OG and the McC's, for reasons best known to themselves, decided, despite what the LE had revealed to them, to stick with the 'missing persons' narrative for their own ends, whatever they might be.

It's all so very very confusing.

 

[Ardoch]

Booking my place and also agreeing that the evidence is likely to be a video.

 

[peanutJelly]

This is yet another reason why i find it unbelievable they exist. Why would Germany let two other jurisdictions carry on in a wild goose chase without at least telling them what they had? (even if they did not share them)

I think they have video footage that was in CBs collection of MM as a victim of abuse, and suspect that CB later killed her. So the crime they want to prove is murder, they have evidence of abuse. Without evidence of death, SY say it remains an abduction/missing person enquiry.

 

[SuperdadV8]

IMO we shouldn't talk that to death. It doesn't really matter, what kind of evidence the prosecuters have, even if it's forensic evidence.

Anyway what kind of evidence exists, they have to build a bridge to sombody. As long as they can't, that person will stay not more as a suspect.

So even if there is physical or visual proof of MM's death, it is nothing, without a provable link to a perp. No body or parts of it alone will solve that case! It's even not the first duty to the prosecuters, to answer the most important question of the parents. It should be the result of the investigation and hopefully successful trial IMO.

Making the evidence public without that link, it will bring nothing more than pure sorrow. That wouldn't be, what serious criminal investigation usually stands for.

Of course the prosecuters are dealing with some needs right now. Yet!

So give it some more time. IMO the investigation is closer than ever before. Try to keep in a positive mood!

 

[MENDEL]

That makes sense, Herr Super!

They could charge him anyway for possession of illegal media, but they would have only half MM's case solved.

But the bridge might be the most difficult piece to find from puzzle.

 

[SuperdadV8]

That makes sense, Herr Super!

They could charge him anyway for possession of illegal media, but they would have only half MM's case solved.

But the bridge might be the most difficult piece to find from puzzle.

Danke, sehr geehrter Herr Mendel!