Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect #2

[MsBetsy]

Delete double post

 

[JediJim]

It could have started as a burglary, an opportunist. Although most burglars don’t take children.
What makes this suspect dangerous is that he was a burglar and a paedophile. So maybe whilst breaking in he took her.
The door was unlocked so easy to get in.
He could have wore glove to open the door, most burglars would I assume.

 

[JediJim]

It could have started as a burglary, an opportunist. Although most burglars don’t take children.
What makes this suspect dangerous is that he was a burglar and a paedophile. So maybe whilst breaking in he took her.
The door was unlocked so easy to get in.
He could have wore glove to open the door, most burglars would I assume.

 

[Kikixxxx]

An Irish family who were on holiday at the same apartment as the McCanns may hold the key to finding out what really happened to Madeleine, according to a Channel Nine investigative podcast.

Labelled "The Smith Sighting", Martin Smith and his large extended family were walking back to their accommodation around 10pm in Praia da Luz the night Madeleine disappeared.

According to the Channel Nine investigation, the Smiths crossed paths with a man who was carrying a small motionless girl down a dark street around the same time Madeleine disappeared.

The alleged sighting occurred less than 300m from the Ocean Club Resort and the man was heading towards the beach just 150m away.

'Smiths walked past culprit': New key to Madeleine McCann mystery

im really starting to think it was actually CB who the smiths saw around 10pm. heading towards the beach, carrying a little girl "motionless" was she sleeping? or was she already dead at that point?
wasn't it reported his apartment was along the beach path or something? but then where does the car come into it, what reason would he have to re register the jag in Germany if he didn't even use the car?

 

[JediJim]

Red flag no 1

When a convicted 30 year old paedophile phone records show he was in the vicinity of the disappearance of a child

Red flag no 2

When same convicted paedophile changes owners on his prized motor the very next day of the disappearance.

Why are we finding out about these 2 major red flags 13 years later.

Good question.

 

[MsBetsy]

Can you get out of a window with a three year old? I assumed in through the window, out through the doors.

That could be. I don't remember how big the windows were or which way would have been the best choice to go unnoticed.

 

[mrjitty]

Part of it may have been shock, and then if they all started talking about it together and trying to figure it out as a group, IMO that leads some people to abandon or embroider their own memories in favour of the group opinion/reconstruction. IMO, police shouldn't be naive about witness statements, they can take these things into account when doing their investigation.

Yes. I've always doubted that such a large group, who were not close friends, would actively engage in a conspiracy. I think it happened like you say. People told small lies, or updated their versions based on what the others said.

So you get an auto suggestion where you adapt your memory to "what must have happened". Especially I think Kate made stuff up and the others followed from that.

This is of course why PJ wanted a walk through. It boggles my mind to this day why Tapas would not agree to it, but I suspect the real reason was that some of them received legal advice not to cooperate

At the heart of the case may lie a tragic misunderstanding rather than a conspiracy.

I haven't followed this closely from the beginning, but one area of confusion for me is the window being open. That's obviously very significant, the intruder either went in, or went out that way, or both. Even if the scene was staged, who would stage it with an open window, rather than an open door? Makes much more sense that the street door would be open, indicating the abductor went out that way, and most abductors would go out the street door.

To me, an open window, that's a big flag that says "experienced burglar". Not many adults can get in and out of windows, or would even try, but that's a preferred method of access by burglars. And were there burglars operating in and out of similar type windows in the area?

It seems possibly that's the kind of factual info that was dismissed as unimportant, while PJ put more emphasis on unreliable witness sightings.

i think Kate staged the window but Gerry later had to abandon it as the point of ingress.

The obvious problem with the window is that if you enter from the front door, you have to notice the window is open. This is why Gerry had to change his story "remembering" the patio door was unlocked.

And this is again why the PJ were entirely correct to say the Tapa's evidence was nonsense.

All of this came out at Lisbon, but the UK media don't cover that detail because they prefer to rag on PJ. But how shall PJ investigate the case when the primary witnesses give false evidence?

 

[Satchie]

It's late and I'm tired, but just thinking about something. Didn't Kate say that Madeleine had woken on a previous night and the next day asked where her mum had been? Well, what if Madeleine woke again the night she vanished and left the apartment, and that is when she was taken? Is this a possible scenario?

(personally I prefer the 'family was being watched' theory but I thought I'd put it out there)

I'm not convinced an intruder would care about a child waking up. Presumably, it was dark, she wouldn't really know who was there or why. If she called out, IMO they'd just escape fast. A normal burglar is looking for a wallet or electronics, the last thing they want is a toddler.

 

[Deleted member 268067]

An Irish family who were on holiday at the same apartment as the McCanns may hold the key to finding out what really happened to Madeleine, according to a Channel Nine investigative podcast.

Labelled "The Smith Sighting", Martin Smith and his large extended family were walking back to their accommodation around 10pm in Praia da Luz the night Madeleine disappeared.

According to the Channel Nine investigation, the Smiths crossed paths with a man who was carrying a small motionless girl down a dark street around the same time Madeleine disappeared.

The alleged sighting occurred less than 300m from the Ocean Club Resort and the man was heading towards the beach just 150m away.

'Smiths walked past culprit': New key to Madeleine McCann mystery

im really starting to think it was actually CB who the smiths saw around 10pm. heading towards the beach, carrying a little girl "motionless" was she sleeping? or was she already dead at that point?
wasn't it reported his apartment was along the beach path or something? but then where does the car come into it, what reason would he have to re register the jag in Germany if he didn't even use the car?

It was reported that he lived along the beach path, which was manipulative reporting really because at that point be hadn’t lived there for a year or so. He lived out of his van at that point. And although he transferred the name of the car, it’s thought he did that to give himself an alibi - he did it online and yet given that the new owner was in Germany, it’s thought he did this to give the impression that he, and or the car, werent in the country.

 

[mrjitty]

That could be. I don't remember how big the windows were or which way would have been the best choice to go unnoticed.

Why go out the window when the door was unlocked? Or just exit the front door by unlocking from inside.

IF German guy did it, it really does explain a lot about the Tapa's evidence.

All of it was a wild goose chase based around Tanner.

Likely the time is not even correct.

 

[Snoopster]

Yes, I was wondering about that. And if not him perhaps an older acquaintance in his phone book.

Although that was in the north of the country

EBM

What do you mean by "that was in the north of the country"? Are you referring to the acquaintance, or Joana? Joana disappeared from Figuiera near Portamao in the Algarve. (Sorry, I've not kept up on all of the Madeleine McCann news recently, so I may be missing something.)

 

[mrjitty]

It's late and I'm tired, but just thinking about something. Didn't Kate say that Madeleine had woken on a previous night and the next day asked where her mum had been? Well, what if Madeleine woke again the night she vanished and left the apartment, and that is when she was taken? Is this a possible scenario?

(personally I prefer the 'family was being watched' theory but I thought I'd put it out there)

Exactly - which is why PJ were correct to have 'wandering' was one theory of the case

The other is she woke up, encountered German guy and died in the apartment.

This is why Tannerman and the Tapas timeline may have derailed the key initial weeks of the investigation.

 

[Deleted member 268067]

Exactly - which is why PJ were correct to have 'wandering' was one theory of the case

The other is she woke up, encountered German guy and died in the apartment.

This is why Tannerman and the Tapas timeline may have derailed the key initial weeks of the investigation.

God it’s all perfect storm!

 

[Owlpellet]

It was reported that he lived along the beach path, which was manipulative reporting really because at that point be hadn’t lived there for a year or so. He lived out of his van at that point. And although he transferred the name of the car, it’s thought he did that to give himself an alibi - he did it online and yet given that the new owner was in Germany, it’s thought he did this to give the impression that he, and or the car, werent in the country.

I think the alibi idea was just our speculation here on WS. It might also have been so that if the car had been spotted on the night, any search for one like it registered in the area wouldn't show up.

 

[Deleted member 268067]

I think the alibi idea was just our speculation here on WS. It might also have been so that if the car had been spotted, any search for one like it registered in the area wouldn't show up.

I found something later to corroborate. I’ll go find it.

 

[Owlpellet]

What do you mean by "that was in the north of the country"? Are you referring to the acquaintance, or Joana? Joana disappeared from Figuiera near Portamao in the Algarve. (Sorry, I've not kept up on all of the Madeleine McCann news recently, so I may be missing something.)

Sorry, I was confusing her with Rui Pedro Teixeira Mendonça, who went missing earlier in 1987

 

[Andreee]

Can you get out of a window with a three year old? I assumed in through the window, out through the doors.

Yes, that would seem more likely to me. Plus I have vague memories of reading in early days how there would be great difficulty leaving out the window carrying a child. Either that, or there was someone else outside he passed the child to which doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[Satchie]

From The Sun

CHRISTIAN B'S PICTURE WAS POSITIVELY IDENTIFIED BY WITNESS IN 2007

The Sun understands that another British witness said that Portuguese police circulated a photograph of Christian B years ago but failed to act.

She saw the image of Christian B in 2007 and confirmed that he was the man she had seen acting bizarrely in the days after Madeleine went missing.

A Portuguese investigative source said: “It would appear Christian B's name and background were known to the police all along.

“They showed his picture to at least one witness who positively identified him near the scene, yet nothing appears to have been followed up.”

We don't know what was done at the police end, in terms of following up.

It's been speculated he had some kind of alibi.

ETA: if you've abducted a child, creating an alibi would be extremely important, so police would need to wary about them.

 

[Deleted member 268067]

I think the alibi idea was just our speculation here on WS. It might also have been so that if the car had been spotted on the night, any search for one like it registered in the area wouldn't show up.

Here we go. From the Telegraph. Police thinking along the same lines as us...

“On May 4 2007, the night after Madeleine vanished, Brückner re-registered the Jaguar saloon in the name of an acquaintance who lived in Augsburg even though the vehicle remained in Portugal. Police believe that is suspicious because it suggests Brückner was trying to cover his tracks over the ownership and whereabouts of the vehicle. Mr Bischof said that Brückner eventually gave the car to an acquaintance in Munich.”

Actually a bit ambiguous... hmm.

 

[Deleted member 268067]

Yes, that would seem more likely to me. Plus I have vague memories of reading in early days how there would be great difficulty leaving out the window carrying a child. Either that, or there was someone else outside he passed the child to which doesn't seem to be the case.

If it’s this guy, he has form for scaling walls and entering via windows.