Madeleine McCann: German prisoner identified as suspect - #20

[Chiatos]

I don't believe that CB abused or killed MM in the apartment.
I believe that he took her -alive and well- and fled with her to some place unkown to us.
IMO

 

[Chiatos]

German cops want to visit Portugal in 'final roll of dice' in Madeleine case

If true, it sounds to me like they got an assumption where to look. That would be great!

Good. I hope they'll find something.
And I hope they'll discover what CB's SY neighbour has been doing all these years.

 

[redplanet]

The perp needn't have to have physically touched MM or take graphic photo's in 5A.
Sorry to be graphic, but removing clothing and re-dressing takes time, especially as the perp went on to take MM out of 5A
His usual MO was to masturbate in front of children.
MM may have woken up to witness the act or disturbed him as he was looking to burgle the apartment.

@Dlk79 is correct in saying that we can't apply a rational mind to the perp.
If, as they say, he has ASPD (Anti social personality disorder) - psychopathy, one cannot really challenge the perps actions from either our individual or a layman's perspective, or what seemed the 'easiest option' for him, or the most 'sensible' thing to do.
I think we tend to forget this.
Those with ASPD are sensation seeking, erratic, impulsive, irresponsible - all linked to excessive risk taking behaviors without considering the consequences.

Whilst all of these traits may not apply to this perp, his previous crimes suggest some may feature.

It is possible to conjecture "may have woken up to witness the act" happening in the previous evening, with the stain on pyjama (reported by KM) occuring just before waking up??? and the crying (reported by MM) occuring immediately upon waking up???

 

[Denis R Tandib]

Well, I put "this" in bold but that was hidden. I refer to last sentence where I can't understand what "this" is supposed to be.

"I’ll say it again, it’s the highest of high profile cases and it’s unsolved, as unlikely as this seems (to me anyway) it might well be true."

Okay, understand. I mean unlikely that CB left with the body and that given all the attention on the case, we should probably expect some illogical and unusual things occurred, conversely, if it were all straightforward it would have been solved.

 

[MENDEL]

Okay, understand. I mean unlikely that CB left with the body and that given all the attention on the case, we should probably expect some illogical and unusual things occurred, conversely, if it were all straightforward it would have been solved.

Thanks for clarifying that, Denis. I really couldn't find what "this" meant in the context.

 

[redplanet]

About the stain. A useful source is the book by KM. She noticed it during breakfast on Thu. However she had not noticed anything there at child bedtime on Wed. From that I conclude it IMO did not yet exist at child bedtime on Wed. Because IMO if it existed it would have been noticed. Also she states it did not occur during breakfast on Thu. So is it reasonable to think it may have occured in the time period after bedtime and before breakfast???

.... and as no tea (the drink) was served inbetween bedtime and breakfast, that suggests it was probably not tea???

 

[redplanet]

During the first check (listen outside window) was the listening done outside the correct window?

 

[Denis R Tandib]

During the first check (listen outside window) was the listening done outside the correct window?

During GM’s check he looked into the kids bedroom and went to the toilet. GM changed his mind between his first and second statements on which entrance he used - first statement wooden front door second statement patio doors. If his first statement is correct IMO CB would have had time to hide as the door was being unlocked and could have hidden in the parents room? If the second statement is correct then the noise from the gate opening and closing and walking up the steps could have alerted him. Once GM exited then his loud voice talking to JW would have provided the info as to where the danger/lack of was located.

 

[Dlk79]

During the first check (listen outside window) was the listening done outside the correct window?

I assume you mean when MO claimed to have listened outside the window just before GM did his first check. I would have thought he knew it was the correct window, MO was staying in the apartment next door to the McCanns so the next windows along were his own apartment.

 

[Denis R Tandib]

I assume you mean when MO claimed to have listened outside the window just before GM did his first check. I would have thought he knew it was the correct window, MO was staying in the apartment next door to the McCanns so the next windows along were his own apartment.

You’re right, duh! I got it all wrong.

 

[misty48]

.... and as no tea (the drink) was served inbetween bedtime and breakfast, that suggests it was probably not tea???

I seem to recall (possibly from the Netflix series) it was reported the 3 children had cartons of chocolate milk before they went to bed. A small amount of that liquid may have found its way onto Madeleine's pyjama top.

 

[redplanet]

I assume you mean when MO claimed to have listened outside the window just before GM did his first check. I would have thought he knew it was the correct window, MO was staying in the apartment next door to the McCanns so the next windows along were his own apartment.

The witness thought that 5B bedroom had 1 window and 5A bedroom had 2 windows,
but in reality the converse is true. This is why I ponder, was the listening at the correct window? From the 2008 statement:

"....one of the things I said in my statement, when we talk about the Thursday, was where the two windows were only the one, and I thought the two were on this bedroom rather than this one and so, you know, I said, you go through, but there's actually two more, apparently two on those, they showed me a photograph of that. So that's something I know that I got mistaken by, I thought there were two on next door, because I don't think I'd ever noticed it"

 

[redplanet]

I seem to recall (possibly from the Netflix series) it was reported the 3 children had cartons of chocolate milk before they went to bed. A small amount of that liquid may have found its way onto Madeleine's pyjama top.

TY I need to look at that. However at child bedtime KM did not notice any stain present.

 

[tedtink]

Maybe GM's check stirred MM from her sleep, then perhaps after the perp had entered 5a shortly after, he disturbed MM who then got up and wandered into her parents room where she found him.
This could have been around the same time that MO did his check.
The perp heard the patio door open and could have put his hand over her mouth to keep her quiet and restrain her.
MO said that he had looked at the book titles on the shelf, so it wasn't just a very quick check.
The length of time the perp must have had to keep MM quiet may have resulted in death by suffocation.
This could explain why the dog alerted within that specific room and possibly the odor drifted into a corner (cupboard) where there is not much air circulation and could possibly explain why items of clothing were also found to have cadaver scent on them and why her bed was seemingly untouched.
I'm just suggesting another possibility, that abuse may not even have taken place at that stage, if not at all.
HCW said believed murdered and possibly abused.
Either they are holding back, or have no proof of the latter.
Just another theory.
JMO.

 

[redplanet]

Maybe GM's check stirred MM from her sleep, then perhaps after the perp had entered 5a shortly after, he disturbed MM who then got up and wandered into her parents room where she found him.
This could have been around the same time that MO did his check.
The perp heard the patio door open and could have put his hand over her mouth to keep her quiet and restrain her.
MO said that he had looked at the book titles on the shelf, so it wasn't just a very quick check.
The length of time the perp must have had to keep MM quiet may have resulted in death by suffocation.
This could explain why the dog alerted within that specific room and possibly the odor drifted into a corner (cupboard) where there is not much air circulation and could possibly explain why items of clothing were also found to have cadaver scent on them and why her bed was seemingly untouched.
I'm just suggesting another possibility, that abuse may not even have taken place at that stage, if not at all.
HCW said believed murdered and possibly abused.
Either they are holding back, or have no proof of the latter.
Just another theory.
JMO.

This is IMO a very good post. Yes it makes sense IMO that she may have gone to the parents' bedroom.

 

[Newthoughts]

Old news I know but what exactly does HCW mean with this statement?

"Here in Germany our Public Ministry only divulges things when they are solid."

If they have material and concrete evidence, isn't that solid? Or does he mean they will divulge info when/if they can charge CB?

I am actually wondering, why they cannot let her parents know about how MM died so that they can start accepting the fact and find some kind of peace, regardless if CB is charged or not?

Do we actually know that they haven't informed her parents? It is possible they have

 

[Lilly b]

Wolters told the They’ve Taken Her podcast: “Maybe we need more witnesses or we need some photos or video.”

Think about what is said here.
Some photos or videos,
Does that mean they know that there are photos and videos of mm?? Any thoughts on it?

 

[Lilly b]

Do we actually know that they haven't informed her parents? It is possible they have

I'm thinking they have told the parents something, but that's all I can say

 

[mrjitty]

German cops want to visit Portugal in 'final roll of dice' in Madeleine case

If true, it sounds to me like they got an assumption where to look. That would be great!

This reads more like it is briefed by sources at PJ - implying HCW will have to give up some of his evidence to make a case for cooperation

 

[mrjitty]

Wolters told the They’ve Taken Her podcast: “Maybe we need more witnesses or we need some photos or video.”

Think about what is said here.
Some photos or videos,
Does that mean they know that there are photos and videos of mm?? Any thoughts on it?

My theory is they believe that photos/videos existed - e.g. from witnesses or chats but they don't have them.